Roku explores taking over HDMI feeds with ads

Roku is exploring ways to show consumers ads on its TVs even when they are not using its streaming platform: The company has been looking into injecting ads into the video feeds of third-party devices connected to its TVs, according to a recent patent filing.

This way, when an owner of a Roku TV takes a short break from playing a game on their Xbox, or streaming something on an Apple TV device connected to the TV set, Roku would use that break to show ads. Roku engineers have even explored ways to figure out what the consumer is doing with their TV-connected device in order to display relevant advertising.

RunningInRVA,

Imagine being the guy working on this and how much you hate yourself anytime somebody asks you what you are working on.

Croquette,

Some people also have no qualms in doing the dirty job. They get paid and they don’t care.

jjjalljs,

I knew a guy who went to work for palantir. I asked "what if you end up working on like domestic spying or other sketchy stuff?’

He was like, shrug, iunno. Guy did not give a shit about anyone outside his immediate friend and family group.

Kalysta,

And when it turns out the thing he made is used to hurt his friends?

jjjalljs,

I’m going to guess he values himself more than his friends, and he’d find justifications, but maybe he’d surprise me.

datelmd5sum,

We had to listen this C-level guy give a speech how good the last couple of years have been. We’ve increased the price of services by 50% and the amount of useless upsell shit we push to people has gone up as well. While our wages are still the same and people are getting laid off constantly. But I need food and shit.

jg1i,

Unfortunately, I bet these guys don’t care. I used to work at a company you might have products from and I would constantly hear “Hey, we’re a business” as an excuse to degrade the user experience. :(

frostysauce,

Even worse: Imagine being the guy working on this and being proud of yourself.

GustavoFring,

I think the former situation is worse for the person working on it.

TragicNotCute,
@TragicNotCute@lemmy.world avatar

“Yeah, I know it’s shitty, but it pays the bills 🤷🏻‍♂️”

Hamartiogonic,
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

I recall watching a defcon speech given by someone who used to make malware. He opened the speech by apologizing and saying that he knows that he will burn in hell.

RageAgainstTheRich,

I remember having an argument with my teacher in college about this. He asked us what we would do if we were asked to code something that could be used for things you personally don’t agree with such as the government using tools to “help” but also remove peoples privacy. Or corporations being able to show you more ads. I told him i would refuse. And he said that it would be my job though and sometimes you have to do things you don’t like. So i told him i would quit. And for some reason he could not really comprehend that and we got into an argument.

archomrade,

You were talking to a teacher who probably couldn’t afford to pay rent if he ever quit his job.

acr515,

To be fair, most people I know don’t have the financial flexibility to quit their job if they’re asked by their boss to do something objectionable

harsh3466,

First, fuck Roku. This is exactly why my roku tv is not connected to the internet and never will be. My kodi box handles my entertainment needs.

Exusia,
@Exusia@lemmy.world avatar

I was permitted to close my account…without any hassle. Sign into my.roku.com and delete account is as the bottom. Selecting “don’t want to use this anymore” gives you a box with 255 charachter limit (because of course they don’t want to hear a real reason) and then when you hit send you just get “Thank you, account closed, if you come back you will need a new account”

Surprisingly, suspiciously, painless.

MightyMembrane,

If they decide to go through with this I will literally replace every Roku TV I own, fuck that shit!

Blackmist,

You should probably plan on that anyway. I’ve already seen screenshots of ads popping up over DVDs, offering to sell you what you’re already watching.

This isn’t a threat from Roku. This is a promise to their real customers, the glorious advertisers.

EvolvedTurtle,

Bro Wtf If this happens I’m litterly buying a new tv

greencactus,

Am I the only one who gets the feeling that this is kinda dystopic? Like come on, this just gets crazy. It amazes me that some people think this is an ethically acceptable way to earn money.

Etterra,

What makes you think they have ethics to believe in? About 1 in 100 people is a functional sociopath on some level; they can’t all be lawyers, politicians, executives, sales people, and criminals. There’s gotta be a few engineers in there somewhere.

greencactus,

True, hood point. I remember to have read a study according to which a disproportionate amount of people at the top (aka CEOs) display narcissistic behavioral traits - so it can make sense to suspect the same applies to other personality disorders. It just feels ahhh to me - that these people dont utilize their talents and itelligence to improve the world, but to build up ways to monetize every last bit of your time. Like come on :/

Tattorack,
@Tattorack@lemmy.world avatar

We are living in a cyberpunk dystopia right now. Or the beginnings of one. We’re just missing all the cool and badass stuff from the genre.

ilikecoffee,

This shouldn’t be legal… You already paid for the TV, if you’re not using their services - TV’s all yours.

mindbleach,

Brain worms.

Roku engineers have even explored ways to figure out what the consumer is doing with their TV-connected device in order to display relevant advertising.

People should be in jail for even trying.

normalexit,

I’m done with Roku. I have one in every room, but they all need to go.

buzz86us,

No wonder why Walmart bought their asses

nobleshift,
@nobleshift@lemmy.world avatar

Ow my balls

Pulptastic,

Ass

PresidentCamacho,

Cant talk, baitin

FritzGman,

Oh please don’t misunderstand my post. I’m in total agreement that this bullshit can’t go unchallenged and that posting about it is necessary and good. It’s just that, like public comment town halls, all the complaining in the world does not affect change.

Instead, I meant to imply that more needs to be done and in a way that people who have already paid can use to fight against them.

Like encouraging all Roku TV owners (and eventually all Smart TV owners) to contact their local, state and federal representatives to demand they enact consumer protection laws against post purchase forced software changes to functionality of the product (aside from security patches) or forced acceptance of ‘terms of service’ that essentially take away your right to your preferred method of recourse.

I mean, the idea that we buy something for the features and capabilities it gives us just to have it changed at the whim of a corporate moneymaking scheme is insane. Even moreso when policy changes mean you accept something you don’t want to or lose what you paid for (i.e. Roku’s forced arbitration acceptance that would otherwise brick the TV).

It’s fine to vent frustrations but in the long run, jailbreaking and looking to buy something different doesn’t resolve the root problem. Greed overcoming consumer protection in the name of shareholder interest (most of which are corporate C level douches).

Sorry if I wasn’t clear with my opinion but my posts usually are already too long before they even start. lol

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

contact their local, state and federal representatives to demand they enact consumer protection laws against post purchase forced software changes to functionality of the product (aside from security patches) or forced acceptance of ‘terms of service’ that essentially take away your right to your preferred method of recourse.

www.congress.gov/members/find-your-member

mortrek,

Never connect your smart TV to the internet. Just don’t do it. Get a third party device or ideally use an old PC with an appropriate HTPC Linux distro or something.

rektdeckard,
@rektdeckard@lemmy.world avatar

Wait, why? Is the TV spying on me any more than my phone, every app I use, my desktop OS, every website I visit, all of my smart home devices, my car, my bank, traffic cameras, and my bottom left molar?

Can’t I just slap a PiHole on my home network and pretend I’ve done something about it?

PrefersAwkward,
@PrefersAwkward@lemmy.world avatar

TVs have a history of listening and collecting a lot more data than a smart device.

With a TV device like an android or Linux box, you can prevent that as well as ad-injection because you can install whatever you want on the device and it’s not as locked down as a TV. You can even disable or physically remove recording devices if you’d like, and many smart boxes do not even come with them.

Also, a pihole does not guarantee you filtered out everything or prevented the TV from interfering with your experience.

A TV can also change its policy on the fly and suddenly start injecting ads. Many TVs do this to add additional income after your purchase.

EvolvedTurtle,

Everyone expects a phone Nobody thinks about tvs

Petter1,

If tv is talking home using ip directly, DNS blocking will not work. You have to ether disconnect tv from your network or give the tv a static ip and block all traffic to and from WAN (internet) from that device Update tv manually using USB stick.

mortrek,

Reply to old reply, sorry. Technically blocking the IP isn’t perfect either. In theory, as long as it has the wifi credentials, and your wifi has access to the internet, your TV will be able to access the internet if it really wants to. All it’d have to do is ignore the IP assignment or fake/change a MAC address during DHCP. I don’t know why a “legit” TV would do this, but if you get some unbranded Chinese thing, or if any wifi device wants to be malicious, it can bypass DHCP+IP filters very easily.

SeaJ,

Get a signage TV instead of a smart TV. Then you also don’t have to deal with the slow ass UI.

trum_pam_pam,

I use Arch btw

refurbishedrefurbisher,

Do you know of a good HTPC UI other than Kodi? I was never a huge fan of Kodi.

phoneymouse,

Over my dead body

FritzGman, (edited )

You know what people tend to forget?

Shareholders = Consumers of the product too

Marketing departments that come up with these assinine ideas are staffed with consumers of the product too.

As long as enough people are making bank from this stupidity, it will not stop.

The only right answer is not to give them your money. Hard to do that when they all do it and after purchase protests are kind of pointless since they already got paid. So, how to actually impact their bottom line? That’s the only language they listen to.

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

purchase protests are kind of pointless since they already got paid

But when the people who paid them can’t move their product because it has the Roku name on it, it all of a sudden becomes very pointful.

FritzGman,

To some extent yes. However, the problem doesn’t go away. It just becomes cyclical.

Not many people out there are likely to say that they haven’t spent money on a number of brands hopping from one to the other until the enshittifcation catches up to the brand.

When we run out of brands, then what? Amazon Firestick, Google Chromecast, Roku, Android TV, WebTV OS …

I just think on top of not buying their products in the future, it would make sense to also fight the fight that will prevent others from doing the same thing now and in the future. Eliminate the need to turn away from a brand because they are allowed to screw us on the value of our purchase trying to milk us for more profit. TV prices might go up a few hundred or more (and if you want a new feature, it might cost you) but you know that what it does or doesn’t do when you get, it will still do it later on it’s it’s lifespan. Of course, this will be all moot once hardware becomes a subscription model. The lack of personal ownership of things in the name of perpetual profits is a thing coming …

CosmicCleric,
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

So what you’re talking about then is combating the violence inherited in the system.

FritzGman,

Not sure what this means tbh but financial violence is a really good way to put it. lol

upandatom,

How’s that strategy working out for you? For us?

Unfortunately “don’t give them money” doesn’t work. Bc commerce is global due to internet. There will always be uninformed buyers in every product space. And always buyers who don’t care.

My solution, posts like this. We should be informing others of these practices and discussing ways to bypass, repair, or disable blocks and unintended behavior on the products and services we purchase.

rob_t_firefly,
@rob_t_firefly@lemmy.world avatar

You know what people tend to forget?

Shareholders = Consumers of the product too

I wonder how many of the people getting rich in the tobacco industry are smokers.

FritzGman,

In the words of Elvira Hancock - “Don’t get high on your own supply.”

deur,

Does nobody in this thread know about HDCP? This wouldn’t fly at all.

ulterno,
@ulterno@lemmy.kde.social avatar

HDCP signal is decoded by the TV before being displayed on the screen. The TV has complete control over what is shown to you.

Don’t get it wrong: HDCP was not made to protect user interests, but specifically for the publisher and display device OEMs who subscribe to it.

Crozekiel,

Can you elaborate? I thought hdcp was mostly about preventing piracy type of things, what does it do for this situation?

khornechips,

It (in theory) prevents signal tampering of any kind, which would include injecting advertisements into the stream.

getynge,

They’d be doing this change on their TVs, in principle this would be no different from displaying the settings menu that comes up when you press the * button, no tampering of the HDMI signal required. HDMI inputs are their own “channels” in the UI so it’s pretty trivial to put ads on the screen periodically when one such channel is open.

VR20X6,

Have you heard of the analog hole? Or wondered how your TV can display things like volume changes over the program you’re watching?

vox,
@vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

patents don’t mean shit tho, companies usually just patent whatever they want without any plans of implementation

ulterno,
@ulterno@lemmy.kde.social avatar

patents don’t mean shit tho

It’d be safe to say that there’s a much higher probability of this kind of a patent being implemented than something that takes real problem solving and engineering to implement. This one is clearly made with to increase revenue and will most probably be pursued by them as much as possible. I can even see them getting royalties for this stuff, from other Smart TV companies.

Things that may hinder this:

  • PR
  • Laws

Really just make forced arbitration illegal and these things will reduce significantly.

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