Ah yeah, 90% support for the government policy in a county where all the opposition is banned and the secret service disappears people who have wrong opinions.
It wouldn’t be out of line if we assume the Donbass region was not included. After all, the average Ukrainian has had their life turned upside down by the Russian invasion and occupation. Like with Sweden and Finland, it would be natural to be attracted to inclusion in a treaty organization that would provide protection going forward.
Regarding the opposition, even the supposedly “pro-Russian” parties had turned pretty anti-Russia once the invasion started. I’m still mystified why there isn’t more pressure from the nations backing the Ukrainian government to return to the principals of a liberal democracy. This is no time to resort to authoritarianism.
Literally about everything. Your claim that Ukrainians outside of Donbass are uniformly pro regime is not based in reality. This is likely true for parts of western Ukraine, but certainly not true for Ukraine as a whole. Especially places like Odessa or Kharkov.
Sweden and Finland are not gaining any actual protection going forward. In fact, they’ve put themselves in a much more dangerous position by renouncing neutrality. As many experts have repeatedly explained, the reason Ukraine is in the situation that it’s in is precisely because of its ambitions to integrate into NATO.
I strongly encourage you to read this report from the Royal United Services Institute in UK that clearly explains why NATO cannot offer any real protection to countries.
The reason there isn’t any pressure from the governments backing Ukraine to return to “freedom and democracy” is because those governments do not give a shit about these things. The west has consistently propped up some of the most heinous regimes known to man.
The basic facts are entirely contrary to the statements you make.
Your claim that Ukrainians outside of Donbass are uniformly pro regime is not based in reality.
I claimed that it’s probable that the average Ukrainian, whose life has been put into turmoil by Russia’s invasion, may not have many warm fuzzy feelings towards the government attacking their country and may be in favor joining NATO to prevent future attacks.
Especially places like Odessa or Kharkov.
Those cities have been bombed extensively by Russia as part of the invasion. Even if there was once much interest in those cities to chart a more pro-Russia course, I doubt there is much anymore. Just because a city has primarily Russian speakers doesn’t mean they will love Russia when Russia rains bombs on their homes.
I strongly encourage you to read this report from the Royal United Services Institute in UK that clearly explains why NATO cannot offer any real protection to countries.
It’s a good report, but it doesn’t say that. It just says that for a longer haul war, the US especially is going to need to change its strategy around ammunition
I claimed that it’s probable that the average Ukrainian, whose life has been put into turmoil by Russia’s invasion, may not have many warm fuzzy feelings towards the government attacking their country and may be in favor joining NATO to prevent future attacks.
You assume that out of ignorance.
Those cities have been bombed extensively by Russia as part of the invasion. Even if there was once much interest in those cities to chart a more pro-Russia course, I doubt there is much anymore. Just because a city has primarily Russian speakers doesn’t mean they will love Russia when Russia rains bombs on their homes.
It’s a good report, but it doesn’t say that. It just says that for a longer haul war, the US especially is going to need to change its strategy around ammunition
What it very plainly says is that the west lacks industrial capacity for the kind of war that Russia is currently waging. If you don’t understand that, then read the report again.
What it very plainly says is that the west lacks industrial capacity for the kind of war that Russia is currently waging.
The West currently lacks that specific industrial capacity. It could definitely shift production to counter Russia, especially as part of a longer war.
Then explain to me why Ukrainians would like being invaded and bombed relentlessly. Please, I’m all ears.
The people themselves explain it in the video I linked. Here’s the ethnic breakdown of Ukraine for you. People in the east consider themselves to be occupied
That guy is embedded with the the Russia army and goes on Infowars. He is simply an untrustworthy source, a propagandist.
The interview is just the people telling what they think. Imagine thinking that’s propaganda as opposed to whatever you’re guzzling.
The West currently lacks that specific industrial capacity. It could definitely shift production to counter Russia, especially as part of a longer war.
No it can’t, you can’t create an industrial base overnight and anybody who’s not an utter imbecile understands that.
People in the east consider themselves to be occupied
Now who’s assuming?
The interview is just the people telling what they think. Imagine thinking that’s propaganda as opposed to whatever you’re guzzling.
Has it ever occurred to you that those interviews can be faked? His Russian handlers tell him to head down a road, and lo and behold there is someone there to tell you about all the Ukrainian atrocities! I mean, sure it’s just a Russian soldier or separatist militia member that they stuck some civilian clothes on, but those are just details.
I’m not assuming anything. This is what the people there say, and that’s why we’re not seeing any actual resistance to LPR and DPR forces taking cities the way we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan when US occupied those countries.
Has it ever occurred to you that those interviews can be faked?
Has it ever occurred to you that you might be a victim of propaganda?
This is what the people there say, and that’s why we’re not seeing any actual resistance to LPR and DPR forces taking cities the way we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan when US occupied those countries.
I’m sure Mariupol welcomed the Russians as liberators! Well, what’s left of it.
Has it ever occurred to you that you might be a victim of propaganda?
I try to keep a reasonable level of skepticism. But I’m certainly not trusting an easily faked YouTube video from someone who is obviously a propagandist spouting Russian talking points.
I’m sure Mariupol welcomed the Russians as liberators! Well, what’s left of it.
Have you seen videos from Mariupol after it was taken? What you don’t seem to get is that people from LPR and DPR are the ones doing most of the work on the ground, not Russia. These are people who live in these areas and they’re not seen as occupiers.
I try to keep a reasonable level of skepticism.
You regurgitate pure propaganda in every one of your comments. According to you people like Chomsky are Russian propagandists.
Have you seen pictures of Mariupol before and after it was bombed to shit? Russia did that, there is no escaping that reality.
Yeah, stuff gets bombed during wars. The reality is that Russia dropped far less bombs than US has in any recent conflict.
The fuck? I disagree with Chomsky, but I never called him a propagandist. Patrick Lancaster and his ilk are propagandists.
Chomsky has exact same position I have on the war. Since you claim what I say is Russian propaganda, then Chomsky must be one by extension. What Lancaster reports is what’s actually happening on the ground. You dismiss that because it doesn’t fit your narrative.
Add comment