Lenins2ndCat

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago (edited 9 months ago)

What the fuck?

I was assured by this server that it has no problem with socialists. This is worse than I expected it to be, I expected a half-hearted attempt to justify this action through means other than “they’re socialists and hold socialist views”.

To the three points here:

1. “Western propaganda” - Is capitalist propaganda. Of course socialists oppose it, we oppose capitalism.
2. “Nato” - An anti-nato position is held by literally every single socialist organisation in Europe. You will not find a socialist org with a pro-nato position. Ffs just look at DiEM25’s position on this, it’s probably the most well known cross-nation alliance of socialist groups and parties in europe including people like Yanis Varoufakis, Jeremy Corbyn and Zizek to name a few but that really doesn’t do the size of the DiEM organising alliance justice. Even Noam Chomsky is anti-nato ffs. What the fuck are you doing acting like this is a fringe position not held by a huge number of people over here in Europe and at the forefront of leftist politics on the continent? Taking the position “you’re not allowed to be anti-nato” is blatant american imperialism.
3. “It is in the Left’s interest for these organizations to be demolished.” - Duh? What the fuck do the liberals running this instance think socialists believe exactly? When Marx calls for revolution do you think that we mean to continue the organisations that existed prior? No, we seek to abolish them and create new socialist organisations that serve the new socialist state we seek to create.

Absolutely mindblowing that this instance ever pretended it was going to play nicely with socialists. I’m disgusted.

Every single take above is also the take you will get from every single socialist community over on reddit. The anarchist communities will also even have an anti-nato position. Like jesus christ. I expected this post to be bad but I didn’t expect it to be “Yeah fuck socialists, oh and fuck what anarchists believe too”.

I’m flabbergasted that @ruud just completely lied about not intending to block based on ideology, and it’s extremely telling that Hexbear gets a pre-emptive defederation for this shit while literal actual nazis were a chore to get defederated.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago (edited 9 months ago)

Every fucking “social security” that exists in the western world was achieved by those of us that wave the red flag ffs. 5 day week? Socialists. Most of your holidays? Socialists. Worker protections? Socialists. The length of your work day? Socialists. Healthcare? Socialists. Eliminating child labour? Socialists. The list goes on and on and on.

And inclusiveness? How the fuck do you work out that the only lemmy that has visible pronouns is not inclusive? 20-30% of the userbase is trans ffs. It’s MORE inclusive that this instance which has left transphobic and hateful posts up for many hours at a time on occasion. The post that looked like a relic from r/fatpeoplehate was up for 12 hours before it got taken down.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

I moderate 8 subreddits with a combined userbase of 4.2million subscribers. And a bunch of small ones.

Originally I intended to bring those userbases over here. But the way this instance has been run and the interactions I and other mods have had with the team over PM trying to resolve various issues resulted in each and every one of the modteams I’m in saying “yeah fuck that” over time and getting to know the place. This would have resulted in stickyposts and bringing over thousands, perhaps 10s of thousands, in extremely enthusiastic waves. And this didn’t just affect the teams I’m part of, because everyone on those teams also shares links to many many other teams through all the backrooms.

Communists aren’t the problem. This instance’s policies - which started out looking incredibly promising and had everyone highly optimistic - has singlehandedly killed the interest of dozens and dozens of modteams and by extension the opportunity to bring across massively more people.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

That would’ve given Hexbear the chance to prove itself. This decision eliminates that possibility. It’s a consciously-made politically-motivated decision.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

Are we a strictly pro-NATO server or something?

As of this post, yes apparently.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

You’re really gonna believe reddit after the shit they just pulled with mods and third party apps? Over the entire userbase of the subreddit? Go ask any socialist subreddit what happened. They all know and will all say the same thing.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

Which union movements led to the implementation of those policies and who were the prominent leaders of the unions in those movements? Maybe look into whose blood was spilled in the streets fighting for it too.

Linking to a wikipedia page and vaguely gesturing is functionally meaningless.

Maybe look up the International Workingmen’s Association, and the 8 hour day movement, which followed the Nine Hours Movement of 1871–72. Or read a little about where the weekend comes from.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

ffs

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

Capitalism sucks, but it has an objectively better track record on human rights, human development and social inclusiveness than ANY example of communism throughout history.

Factually untrue. When compared at an equal level of development socialist countries provide a better physical quality of life.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

None of those unions had liberal or conservative leaders numbnuts. They were built by socialists, just like all the new unions you’re seeing pop up today. The Amazon union? Chris Smalls? They read lenin mate.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

Reddit’s statement was that it was banned for hatespeech lmao. You can even see this by checking www.reddit.com/r/chapotraphouse/

Just an absolute joke.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

and apply idealisms to reality

Marxism is a materialist philosophy, it is specifically anti-idealism. I suspect this is a case of a person that does not understand what idealism actually means in this context though so I’ll help out with a very simplified explanation:

Idealism = the belief that human beings control their environment through the use of ideas. That humans have ideas, and then use those ideas to impact their environment.

Materialism = the belief that human beings get their ideas from the material conditions that they find themselves in. That it is actually the environment that human beings exist in that gives them their ideas.

Marxism is a fundamentally a materialist philosophy. Its key thinkers were viciously anti-idealism and sought to ground marxist analysis in scientific analysis, hence the nickname “the immortal science”. Liberalism on the other hand holds idealism as its core tenet and believes that if you just get enough people to change their ideas you can create change. Hence why many liberals think you can just convince the rich to go completely against their material interests with discussion rather than understanding that they hold their ideas because they are the rich, because of the material conditions they have that differ from the working class.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

These are jokes mate. People are playing around. The site is steeped in layers and layers and layers of irony. Nobody gives a crap what’s happening over at Beehaw.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

Yeah for the sake of the historical battle I’m including everyone under the banner. Honestly not much infighting at that time other than at the intelligentsia level, which is obviously different to the organising and ground level.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

I know because I personally spoke to him when he came over to the UK to help with some strike action that was happening here, Coventry if I recall correctly? But I guess you want video or some shit? Hasan and Chris Smalls quoting and big-ing up Lenin on stage?

Your whole premise is that communism is good and capitalism is bad. As if the world is that black and white. You sound like a first year political science student who just got done reading Manifest der Kommunistischen.

Yes. Communism is good and capitalism is bad. All of human history shows revolutions caused by class struggle drive forward human progress from one stage of society to the next. Communism will win. It is inevitable. No matter how many of us that you kill off.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago (edited 9 months ago)

100% their “socialist” examples are all democratic capitalist nations.

What? No they fucking aren’t. They are all literally the countries that you would call tankie. You have not read it. Bozo.

The actual socialist countries included(quoting from the study): China, Cuba, Mongolia, North Korea, Albania, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, USSR, Czechoslovakia, East Germany.

Liberals and literally just telling bare-faced lies. Name a more iconic duo.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

Cool. As long as it doesn’t stop him winning the primary. Trump is far preferable to Desantis who is an incredibly dangerous real fucking monster who only has this chance at running as he’ll be a nobody by the next presidential election because he’ll have been out of Florida for years by then.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

I don’t think either of them have a chance, I’d rather he not get one though, and also not get a platform to spew his shit at a far more visible national level than he’s had so far where it’ll get repeated by millions of boomers for the next 15 years. Whether he wins or not he’ll be setting up the next fascist far more effectively than Trump.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

Stop calling it a troll instance ffs. It’s been here for 3 fucking years and as of like one week ago represents 25% of all content ever posted from a lemmy platform. It has a culture and community that exists for far more than that and is far more established and unique than a bunch of redditors that are mad at reddit and can’t stop posting about reddit instead of actually making this place somewhere unique and fucking interesting with its own cultural stamp and reasons to be here.

What you’re doing is just slander and it’s going to make me very hostile very fucking soon. You are throwing insults at not just me but at thousands of people that I like very very much.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

Whether I agree with the narrative or not, forced narratives and censoring dissenting discussion is bad for communities and breeds extremism and echo-chamers.

You are advocating for doing that by advocating for defederation. This completely lacks any self awareness.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

These days I’m not sure how much they’ve dropped off in popularity or not. A lot of people recommend /r/TrueAnon or /r/TheDeprogram, I hear CitationsNeeded mentioned quite often as well. If you’re looking for more leftist pods with varying styles/seriousness. Pretty much all of them crossover with Hexbear and the former userbase of the CTH sub.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

“Authoritarian” doesn’t refer merely to the existence of authority. It refers to a system under which, on balance, individual liberty is secondary to governmental authority - a system under which there is more likelihood that an individual will be constrained by authority than that theybwill be free to act as they choose.

And note, before you even go there, that that doesn’t mean or imply no individual liberty. Again, the issue is the balance between individual liberty and governmental authority.

Individual liberty is secondary to governmental authority in ALL states. Your liberty ends exactly where it harms the ability of the state to exert its authority. The perceived liberty you believe any state gives only exists within strict boundaries where the use of that liberty does not threaten the state, as soon as it does threaten the state you become the subject of repression. This is true of all states, socialist or liberal.

Why are we suddenly talking about democracy?

We’re talking about liberal democracy because the implication you made was that “authoritarian” states should be opposed whereas the status quo should be maintained. The implication you made was not between anarchism and socialism, it was between what currently exists and what MLs would like to replace it with. You were placing yourself in defence of liberalism when you did this, not anarchism.

Not necessarily, but as a general rule, there is, simply because it’s more difficult for oligarchs in a representative democracy to enact their will. There’s a number of hoops that they have to jump through in order to maintain at least some semblance of serving the will of the people, and that specifically because the people still retain some significant freedoms (remember - it’s about the balance between freedom and authority).

In effect, oligarchs in a representative democracy have to trick or coerce people into not exercising their freedoms or exercising them poorly.

In an authoritarian system, the balance favors the government in the first place, so they’re far more likely to be able to simply issue decrees and then enforce them, without having to muck about with all of the pretending to be serving the will of the people stuff.

What system? You’re not naming a system, you’re vaguely saying “authoritarian system” with no real definition. Describe the authoritarian system. How do their elections work? What is its structure? How do their votes work? How do their courts interact? What is their constitution? Etc etc.

This vague “authoritarian system” is the culprit here for the problems. It’s “bad country” with no real material description or understanding of how “bad country” functions. This is the very point I tried to raise in my first comment, that this wordplay is used to denote “bad country” whenever it has chosen to do something that opposes US (or generally western) interests.

Actually, I would say that it is inherently a bad thing.

That’s an awful lot of why I’m an anarchist - I believe that institutionalized authority cannot be justified and is inevitably destructive.

Sure. I was an anarchist until not too long ago so I don’t actually disagree with you. States are bad. There’s a reason we all want to achieve their eventual abolishment, whether or not we disagree on how to get there. We generally agree that states do bad things. The liberal state does bad things in service of defending the liberal state and maintaining the status quo, the socialist state does bad things in service of defending the socialist state.

This reads like classic projection.

Pointing out the capitalist state does exactly everything that the socialist state does in one way or another is not projection. Come on now you’re better than this you don’t need to go to bat for liberalism as part of your opposition to socialism.

And in fact, I just wrote another post in which I pointed to what I believe to be the fundamental flaw at the heart of the tankie position, and it was pretty much exactly what you wrote here.

My position is that if you’re going to hold that authority is legitimate, then that means that you are legitimately subject to it. You don’t get to pick and choose, just as you wouldn’t allow those who would be subject to your authority pick and choose. Just as you hold that they’re rightly subjugated if those with whom you agree are in power, you’re rightly subjugated if those with whom they agree are in power.

So do you believe in using authority to kill fascists? Do you believe in using authority to prevent liberals from rebuilding a capitalist state in your newly stateless anarchist collective? What are you going to do when one part of the population decides to start a state? Let them or fight them? As an anarchist my understanding of authority was significantly more fleshed out than this, I knew full well that as anarchists we would be exerting authority on some part of the population during and after revolution until achieving what we wanted, and that we would then violently prevent its destruction. Are you opposed to Mahkno and his army violently overthrowing and instilling their ideology on their opposition? Are you opposed to the Spanish anarchists of revolutionary Catalonia violently fighting a civil war for their ideology? Why do you not consider these actions of violence to be the violent use of authority by one part of the population upon another? You can not be a revolutionary and also be against the use of authority, they are strictly in conflict, even as an anarchist if you ever see or take part in an anarchist revolution you will be directly oppressing the opposition through use of force at some stage or another.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

Hexbear? Yes after the ban a lifeboat discord was set up, then a week or so later the site Chapo.Chat was born after rushed dev work. It later rebranded to Hexbear because various socialist groups didn’t want to work with a site associated with the chapo podcast for a variety of minor mostly unimportant reasons, things like believing they’re grifters just seeking money or w/e.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

I’m literally not reading anything from you anymore so as not to pop off. You’re full of shit and I have no interest in engaging with a bare faced liar spreading garbage for the quite obvious reason that you don’t want the socialists to be federated.

Lenins2ndCat, 9 months ago

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c800ef8f-2ded-45ba-baa4-73ad30b5f99e.png