To be clear, this example, where the singular they is used for a person of any gender, is confusing to you.
Example of current use:
Bob - “Hey Jo, Frank thinks we should tweak widget X.”
Me - “Yeah well, they don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about.”
Is Frank part of some larger group that doesn’t know what they’re talking about? Or is it only Frank that doesn’t know what he’s talking about?
Based on the above questions, the confusion is about attempting to identify if the singular they or plural they is being used.
But these variants with a person with an ungendered name or description are fine. Example with ungendered name:
Bob - “Hey Jo, Kelly thinks we should tweak widget X.”
Me - “Yeah well, they don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about.”
Example with ungendered description:
Bob - “Hey Jo, the engineer thinks we should tweak widget X.”
Me - “Yeah well, they don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about.”
If that is true, that the second and third examples are not confusing, then determining whether the singular they or the plural they is being used is not the source of the confusion. As in all three examples, we have a person who was previously referenced excluding the possibility of the plural they. In the first example Frank, in the second Kelly, and the third the engineer. All that has changed in the first example is that the singular they has no restrictions based on name or description. If that grammatical distinction is the source of the confusion, so be it, but let’s be clear on what the confusion is.
Edit - This is a post to the meta group of Blåhaj Lemmy. It is not intended for the entire lemmyverse. If you are not on Blåhaj Lemmy and plan on dropping in to offer your opinion on how we are doing things in a way you don’t agree with, your post will be removed....
I appreciate that you waited until you found content that justified defederation. What you’re describing doesn’t seem that surprising to me based on what I saw.
Also, I’m usually never an early adopter, so it’s cool to watch these decisions play out in real time.
It’s like interdimensional cable but for internet forums. In my version of reality, we get completely naked when taking a shower, not just our hands. We have these kind of lay-down-showers called baths too, but that’s a whole other thing. Also, the chemical element with atomic mass 207.2 g.mol ^ -1, which may seem like a useful building material, especially for shower pipes, is actually dangerous to life that is based on the chemical element 12.011 g.mol ^ -1. Figured I should include that in case OP’s reality hasn’t figured that out yet. In exchange, consider sharing something dangerous your reality has discovered that might not be obvious to us yet.
I got a whole salad instead of sandwich once. I thought they were trying to send me a message so I threw it out in the can outside. Turned out, it was just the wrong order. Whoops.
This is Lemmy NSFW's post about their rules for underage content. It seems clearly defined to me. Their mods have access to all the same tools that every other Lemmy instance has. https://lemmynsfw.com/post/29826
misogyny, slurs for trans people, objectification, straight up rape…
I saw lots of porn. Most people seemed respectful in the comments. I didn't come across any misogyny. Porn involves peoples' bodies. It hard to talk about that kind of topic in a way that doesn't end up being objectifying at least a little. These seem like criticisms against porn in general.
I found one instance of tranny and one instance of hermaphrodite. Slurs for trans people do not seem to be a prevalent part of the instance at all.
As far as rape, there is definitely a Rape Hentai sub. Unfortunately it does seem there are some images that violates both the instance's and the community's rules on underage characters. Hopefully these will reported and taken down by the moderators. If not, then that could be reasonable grounds for defederating.
Rape porn is obviously a grey area. I'm not interested in kink shaming people. Adults acting out scenarios and pretending isn't a problem. But CSAM material is a problem. I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, but it seems like those drawings violate federal law.
I think some of these concerns about verifying the age of participates and the source of the images are valid. I don't want photos from a person's actual rape, or photos obtained or uploaded without consent, to be circulated on the web. Nor do I want CSAM, which is illegal, or CSEM material being distributed.
I can only speak for myself, but I think concerns about Federation are less important than cutting ourselves off from instances because of fears of obscene material that might not appeal to someone. Discussion and books about LGBTQ+ people, drag performances, pride parades are all being targeted across the US because their existence violates conservatives views. My existence is obscene to some people. I would rather not bring that same treatment against others if they aren't doing anything harmful.
The magnitude of the actions are not the same. The mindset, the reasoning, and the implications are worryingly similar to me. By defederating we are telling an entire community we do not want to see them or their content. And we do not want them to be able to interact with us or our content. Defederating immediately feels like a knee jerk reaction to a community that enjoys something other people view as obscene.
Again, if their mods fail to moderate the content properly, which it already seems to be the case, then we have a justifiable reason to defederate. However defederating because they might fail to moderate the content feels a lot like a bathroom bill. The kind that says a trans person might abuse the ability to go in the bathroom of their choice, possible even rape someone, so they should be barred from their preferred bathroom. Of course defederating won't stop people on LemmyNSFW from using their instance, but it feels like the same guilty until proven innocent, risk mitigation logic that gets directed at trans people. It feels exclusionary, the same way a sports division says they don't want trans people, but those trans people can still play on teams in another division for their assigned gender at birth. Taking on trans people is perceived as not worth the risk to fairness for the other players in that division.
Everyone might end up making lots of accounts for different lemmy instances. It's not a huge hassle, and it might become a chosen convention to mitigate risks between instances. I think if we, as lemmy communities in general, are going to go that route we should do it because we have evidence to support that moderates cannot do their jobs otherwise. I imagine this will become self evident very quickly.
I am saying the people with accounts in the LemmyNSFW instance are equal to trans people. Their enjoyment of porn is a characteristic, which some people might find objectionable. This characteristic in theory presents potential risk, but is not inherently a problem.
First they came for the porn enjoyers, and I did not speak out-because I was not a porn enjoyer. XD Couldn't help myself, sorry. But seriously, I would appreciate our mods acting based on evidence when they make a decision that impacts people like this. It's not about what we would be making them do, making multiple accounts, but why we are doing it, not giving them the benefit of the doubt.
No, I don't believe you or anyone else raising concerns is acting from a place of hate. Sorry if it came off that way. It feels more like a place of fear. Well-meaning people can be divided by their fears. Which the actual hateful people use to divide and conquer us. Applying this reasoning to people who like porn might be coming out of left field, but I think that's the reason division can happen so easily, the other group always seems to be coming out of left field.
I'm glad people are bringing LemmyNSFW up for discussion, because it does seem like the instance's ability to moderate content deserves scrutiny.
Porn doesn't post itself. We shouldn't separate the content from the poster, because the content is the poster's speech. It would be no different than another instance saying, "we don't like selfies of people mid transition or skirt spinny memes and we will defederate from any instance that posts that content". Or in other words, it's fine for these people to exist as long as they are silent and don't express themselves the way they want to. Their speech might be viewed as obscene and/or offend someone. People come onto a social media app to speak. When we defederate from an instance we are taking action against people, not just their content.
Without any evidence of wrong doing by LemmyNSFW, worrying about CSAM material and revenge porn from them is an imagined problem like transgender people raping people in bathrooms. As I pointed out, there is evidence of CSAM material. Using that as evidence to justify defederation is reasonable. What is is not reasonable is using fear of potential risks as a justification to defederate. I am not accusing you or anyone else of doing anything. I have been describing why defederating without evidence is undesirable. I am in fact saying that free speech is worth the risk of hate speech. And that peoples' freedom to express themselves is worth the risk that they might do something wrong, like posting CSAM or revenge porn. If the LemmyNSFW moderators fail to curtail hate speech and wrong doing, then we, as an instance, have reasons to take action.
There are people who consider trans people and their content to be unethical. They have made discussing trans people illegal in schools, banned drag shows and discouraged pride parades through a climate of fear. To them there is no difference between a trans person's content or someone on LemmyNSFW's content. We should not divide ourselves without reason. And by defederating we are telling LemmyNSFW there is something they cannot do, regardless of how small a thing that is, that they cannot post or comment here without making another account.
Also pornography collectively is not an entity with a track record. The concern, about the abundance of porn on LemmyNSFW, reminds me of the MAP acronym slur directed at the trans community. Which tries to use the abundance of different kinds of people in the community as some kind of risk that pedophiles are accepted in the trans community, when they are not. If our moderates failed to stop CSAM material from being posted here, other instances would be justified in defederating from us. I'm sure there are people who think the trans community has a proven track record of CSAM material and would expect a high risk of it from us.
I am arguing against arguments. Specifically the arguments in this thread that seem eerily similar to other arguments that I dislike. I am sure that this similarity is not intentioned, but I am arguing against what I see in the thread. I am not sure how else I can argue in good faith. If I have misrepresented your argument, I apologize.
I think what is being argued is that the potential risk of harmful content from LemmyNSFW is not worth continuing to federate with them. I am arguing this is equivalent to society wanting to ostracize a group, like trans people, because the potential risk of harmful content is not worth the risk of continued association. Specifically, what I am saying is equivalent is the reasoning. Which argues that action against a group should be determined by the potential risk posed by that group and not by evidence of wrong doing by that group.
Futu(rule)ama (lemmy.ml)
Sometimes… dead is better.
funy gamepad (lemmy.world)
swagger
Singular they rule (pawb.social)
ALT TEXT:...
lemmynsfw.com has been defederated
Edit - This is a post to the meta group of Blåhaj Lemmy. It is not intended for the entire lemmyverse. If you are not on Blåhaj Lemmy and plan on dropping in to offer your opinion on how we are doing things in a way you don’t agree with, your post will be removed....
Those of you who shower barehanded: Do you lather and then use your hand, or just shove the soap wherever it needs to go? (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
no pickle rule (lemmy.world)
src: https://twitter.com/04119__snail/status/1392179914531479556
Rule (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
deleted_by_author
Anyone else migrating from reddit?
I'm hoping to be done with Reddit and to let Lemmy in as a new home. Anyone else in the same boat? Do yall know of any other trans communities?