Nothing can stop people from being idiots. Most of the accidents are people being idiots.
This is the stupidity I hate most about Tesla shills.
Great engineers make genius innovations all the time to keep idiots from harming themselves or others. Those innovations saturate our society and industries at all levels. Good engineering should be trying to do it more.
Tesla just doesn’t care, or is even complicit in giving the idiots just enough freedom so people can think Tesla is ahead of the competition. The only difference from Tesla is that other car manufacturers don’t give idiots that freedom.
Yeah, a responsible CEO would take measures to remove the video, makes statements about the dangers of abusing the system, etc. instead, Tesla CEO, which is also the main marketing account, makes jokes about it.
Tesla is full of “the driver is always responsible” small print, and then promoting the reckless use of the system through influencer videos and winks from the CEO saying that the legal stuff it’s just due to those peaky regulators. If it wasn’t for them, you wouldn’t really need to keep your hands on the wheel or pay attention. The car just drives itself.
Yes, when cruise control came out over 100 years ago, there were very little controls. Responsible car makers have changes that. Some even recently aimed for zero fatalities for people using their cars and the associated technologies.
And there are many cars that keep you from driving into a wall. Maybe, at this point, you can’t keep 100 percent of the idiots from doing something stupid, but responsible car makers do much, much better than Tesla, who actually promotes and markets the actions of idiots abusing the systems in their cars.
You can literally type in an address and the car will take you there with zero input on the driver’s part. If that’s not full self-driving then I don’t know what is.
Who is responsible if there is an accident, you or Tesla? That is the difference from true FSD and regular driver assistance features.
Regarding driving regulations -
If we had better raw data, I’m sure we could come up with better conclusions. Knowing the absolutely tremendous amount of BS that Musk spews, we can’t trust anything Tesla reports. We’re left to speculate.
What makes this time any different from the dozens of other times musk had said we’re six months away from FSD? When do you think Tesla will take responsibility for accidents that happen while using their software?
If they do that in the next year, I’ll gladly eat humble pie. If they can’t, will you?
I have a feeling that user blocks people that are critical of Tesla. They are probably oblivious to several comments in this thread. It’s really no wonder why they have no clue about how bad Tesla really is.
At what point do we start actually expecting and enforcing that people be responsible with potentially dangerous things in daily life, instead of just blaming a company for not putting enough warnings or barriers to entry?
Volvo seeks to have zero human deaths in their cars. Some places seek zero fatality driving environments. These are cultures where safety is front and center. Most FSD enthusiasts (see comments in the other threads below) cite safety as the main impetus for these systems. Hopefully we would see similar cultural values in Tesla.
Unfortunately, Musk tweets out jokes when responding to a video of people having sex on autopilot. That is Tesla culture. Musk is responsible for putting these dangerous things in consumers hands and has created a culture where irresponsible and possibly fatal abuse of those things is something funny for everyone to laugh at. Of course, punish the individual users who go against the rules and abuse the systems. You also have to punish the company, and the idiot at the top, who holds those same rules in contempt.
If I understand that person correctly, you are confusing the two systems.
Mercedes has two systems. One of a driver assist system that does everything the current version of FSD can do. It is unlimited in the same way that Tesla’s FSD is unlimited.
They have an additional system, that you cite, that is Level 3, a true hands-off self-driving system. It is geographically limited.
So, the question is, does Tesla have any areas where you can legally drive hands free using their software?
All throughout these comments, you seem deeply, deeply confused. Let’s go over this sloooowly.
Mercedes has two autonomous systems. Let’s call them MB FSD and MB Autodrive.
MB FSD has similar features to Tesla’s. It isn’t geo-restricted. You have to pay attention, just like Tesla. It isn’t true autonomous driving, just like Tesla. If you have an accident, you are responsible, just like Tesla.
MB Autodrive is another feature set. It is L3 autonomy, which means it is limited geographically and the driver should be available to take over when prompted. It also means that the driving is completely autonomous. The driver can be reading, playing on their phone, or simply laying there with their eyes closed. Mercedes will even take legal and financial responsibility for any accidents that happen on their system.
So, to summarize:
FSD -type systems: Mercedes and Tesla (and many other car makers)
Level 3: not Tesla, Mercedes
True autonomous driving is when the manufacturer takes responsibility for the car’s actions. Anything else is assisted driving. Until Tesla takes responsibility for accidents, you can’t consider them to have certified autonomous driving.
Is that any clearer to you? After seeing some of your other shilling for Tesla in other posts, maybe there is a reason you don’t want to recognize the advantages of other systems?
This table was probably most interesting, unfortunately the formatting doesn’t work on mobile, but I think you can make sense of it.
Car 2021 Sales So Far Total Deaths
Tesla Model S 5,155 40
Porsche Taycan 5,367 ZERO
Tesla Model X 6,206 14
Volkswagen ID 6,230 ZERO
Audi e-tron 6,884 ZERO
Nissan Leaf 7,729 2
Ford Mustang Mach-e 12,975 ZERO
Chevrolet Bolt 20,288 1
Tesla Model 3 51,510 87
So many cars with zero deaths compared to Tesla.
It isn’t if Tesla’s FSD is safer than humans, it’s if it’s keeping up with the automotive industry in terms of safety features. It seems like they are falling behind (despite what their marketing team claims).
You’re happy that a racist, misogynist billionaire whose companies have some of the worst employee safety data in the industries he’s involved in is pushing these cars onto public roads? Musk doesn’t care about our safety. Like everything else, he lies about it to make money.
We have no clue if Tesla’s are safer than humans drivers in any other car. Tesla publishes those charts, but the data is no where to be found.
Musk lies to make money. You can’t trust anything Tesla publishes.
I don’t want Tesla testing their shit on the public roads and putting me at risk so that Musk can make more money. I don’t opt in to be one of his beta testers.
It’s not just hatred for Musk. Yes, he is a racist that had a place in his factory called “the plantation” for black workers. He swatted the wife and children of a whistleblower. There is so much shit he does, but that isn’t what makes Teslas dangerous.
Teslas are dangerous because he creates a culture that despises safety engineering practices. When someone has sex on autopilot and endangers everyone on the road around them, does Musk rebuke them? No, he makes a joke. Now, good followers think that the silly little warning that pops up every time probably doesn’t mean much. If a worker says that something probably needs more testing before release, do you think he pauses to consider the safety implications? I can guarantee he doesn’t care.
So, you get someone who runs into a fireman on the road and kills them because they were using autopilot while distracted. Or you back over a motorcycle driver and kill them, or plow into a firetruck and kill some more people.
Musk and sycophants like you that think it’s okay to have a cavalier attitude about safety because people just have to be sacrificed for technology. You are menaces. We don’t have to sacrifice passengers to make airlines safer. We have proper testing and systems in place to integrate better technology at very little risk. In the same way, we don’t have to sacrifice motorcycle drivers, first responders, other drivers or pedestrians just because you think your technology is worth it. Other car manufacturers have implemented those safety test systems. Tesla just doesn’t want to spend the money so Musk can get his payout.
Probably not you personally, but the system, oil companies, and people like Musk and his followers that want to prioritize private driving over public transportation.
I say fuck cars, and I have one too. I try to avoid using it, but it’s easy to be lazy. I’m also fortunate to live someplace with great public transportation.
Don’t take it personally, just realize life can be better if we could learn to live without these huge power-hungry cargo containers taking us everywhere.
What I take issue with is saying that the cars are 4 wheeled death machines killing everyone in their path. That is not true. It is also not true that other companies are solving the same problem without risk.
I never said that. It isn’t black or white. I said musk creates a culture that despises safety engineering. Other companies like Volvo embrace it. Different companies embrace it to different degrees. As a result, you have wildly different fatality rates. Teslas happen to be the worst (although, like you said, it’s impossible to get good data that accounts for all the factors).
Yes, it is a people problem, but it is also a systems problem. Volvo has aimed for zero fatalities in their cars. They engineer for problematic people. They went 16 years without a fatality in the UK in one of their models. Tesla simply doesn’t care about problematic people. In fact, problematic people may even get a boost from a Musk re-tweet.
I agree, zero incidents may be impossible and people are problematic. But attitudes, practices, cultures and systems can either amplify those problems or dampen their effects. Musk and Tesla amplify the negative effects. It doesn’t have to be that way.
It isn’t the average driver. Most cars are equipped with driver assist features, we have to say that is should be better than people using current driver assist features from other companies. If Tesla is behind everyone else, but better than a 20 year-old car, it’s still problematic.
Grey had the right idea when he said they didn’t need to be perfect, just as good as or better than humans.
The better question - is Tesla’s FSD causing drivers to have more accidents than other driving assist technologies? It seems like a yes from this article and other data I’ve linked elsewhere in this thread.
Lawsuits test Tesla claim that drivers are solely responsible for crashes (www.washingtonpost.com)
Without paywall: archive.ph/NGkbf
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Tesla’s Autopilot and Full Self-Driving linked to hundreds of crashes, dozens of deaths (www.theverge.com)