A quick history lesson. From 1940-1980:
•Wealthiest paid 70-94% marginal tax
•0 of them went broke from taxation
•0 of them left USA
•All remained exceedingly wealthy
•Manufacturing boomed
•The middle class was 62% of US economy (It's now 40% post 'trickle down scamenomics)
•We had the strongest middle class growth in US History
Let's do that again. Stop protecting billionaires. Start taxing them. #TaxBillionaires
@freemo the top marginal tax rate hovered around 90% from 1944 until 1963, and stayed above 70% until Reagan gutted the tax system in 1980.
Respectfully, you’re incorrect regarding the amount. The 1944/45 94% tax bracket was on incomes above $200,000, which in today’s dollars is close to (but slightly less than) $3.5 million.
Finally, I consider unrestricted wealth antithetical to healthy democracy (and also immoral, though that’s neither here nor there), and taxation is one of the few effective mechanisms we have to counter it. To one of the points one of the other commenters here made regarding the wealthy dodging income tax anyway, this is also why I’m in favour of wealth taxes (despite some of their flaws).
@freemo I agree that wealth isn’t a fixed-size pie, and that isn’t a point I’m making (or think is especially important). The tendency for wealth to concentrate in the hands of a few if left unchecked, is the point I’m making, along with the demonstrated fact that taxes are one of our best mechanisms to counter this.
I’m also not sure what tax evasion (by anyone) has to do with the original discussion. But let me be clear that I absolutely believe the IRS should be comprehensively funded so that they can go after all tax evaders, whoever they are.
@freemo trickle down economics (which you appear to be describing) does not work. The impact of cutting (or indeed increasing) tax rates over the last century or so has not been shown to have much, if any, correlation with relevant economic indicators (GDP, job creation, income growth, wage growth, etc.).
I try to avoid memes when engaging in serious discussions, but this one nicely summarises what we’re discussing:
@freemo repeatedly calling something “abusive” doesn’t make it so, and I hope this conversation is encouraging you to reconsider that dogma with an open mind. @opendna@QasimRashid
@freemo that is incorrect. The Dutch also have a progressive income tax system and the first bracket (9.28% tax rate) is from €0 to €35,742. So your example person would pay €45.38 in taxes (in 2023). @opendna@QasimRashid
@freemo it seems you mixed up the numbers in your post - did you mean €469 (your first number) or €469,000 (your second number)? I used your first number, fwiw.
The second number is clearly for someone wealthy, so a high tax rate is not going to be material for them - they have plenty of income. @opendna
@freemo also correct, which is why I haven’t said that. Bringing emotive language into this discussion (either way) doesn’t help us each come to a deeper understanding of the topic. @opendna
“What your missing is these people where wealth concentrates are also the people resonsible for creating much of that same wealth.”
And not to go off on a tangent, but this isn’t even true. ~50% of the jobs in the US are in small businesses, and 2/3 of job growth over the last 25 years has been created by small businesses. They’re the engine of the economy, not the wealthy.
@freemo are you disputing that you wrote that toot, or are you disputing that your statement in that toot (“these people where wealth concentrates are also the people resonsible for creating much of that same wealth.”) describes trickle down economics?
“Trickle-down economics and its policies employ the theory that tax breaks and benefits for corporations and the wealthy will trickle down and eventually benefit everyone.”
First paragraph:
“What your missing is these people where wealth concentrates are also the people resonsible for creating much of that same wealth.”
And as I said a few minutes ago, this isn’t even true - small businesses contribute more to the economy (i.e. the creation of wealth) than the wealthy do.
@freemo as others have said elsewhere in this thread, the wealthy largely obtain that wealth by skimming the difference between the value of what their employees produce, and what they pay those employees. That’s not “generating wealth”, it’s exploitation.
Rainbow Falls, Golden Gate Park
Rainbow Falls was completed in May 1930 on the site of a former quarry mined for rock to pave park roads. Chris Pollock in his excellent book says the name comes from colored electric lights that framed it. #sfhistory#bikeride