thecradle.co

DarkGamer, to worldnews in Israeli troops gun down thousands of Palestinians awaiting aid in north Gaza
DarkGamer avatar

This source is heavily biased against Israel. I wouldn't trust them for news regarding this conflict.

While it demonstrated a clear opposition to Israel and the West, The Cradle did not appear to weigh in on other topics relevant to right-left U.S. politics. Site searches for "liberal," "conservative," "right-wing," and "left-wing" yielded few results.
However, The Cradle frequently cast "far-right" Israeli politicians in a negative light. While the reviewer noted that this was likely due more to the region's specific politics than any alignment with U.S. partisan polarization, The Cradle's clear anti-Israel stance made it difficult to justify a Center rating.
The reviewer noted a general trend of coverage sympathetic to Arab Muslims and suspicious of Israel and the West. This could be seen in The Cradle's extensive coverage of the Israel-Hamas conflict, which often highlighted faults by Israel. Notable headlines included "Israeli police unable to verify 'Hamas rape' stories," "Israel defender Alan Dershowitz named in Epstein court docs," "Michael Hudson: A roadmap to escape the west's stranglehold," and "'Unprecedented' surge in West Bank settlement activities." The Cradle also published interviews with representatives of militant groups like Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Middle Eastern politicians like Iraqi ex-PM Adil Abdul-Mahdi.

TonyStew,
TonyStew avatar

Step 2: show that what they said was wrong.

Jaytreeman,

Dudes drunk the koolaid. Probably not worth the effort to get him to think critically

DarkGamer,
DarkGamer avatar

Because I disagree with you the only possible explanation is that I don't think critically? Piss off.

Jaytreeman,

Because you've got some naive beliefs about the state of the world ...
We should just agree to block each other. Cheers

Alsephina,

These people are straight up dogs of the empire. This user’s history is just denying the ongoing genocide and defending “israel” and the US’s “democracy”

DarkGamer, (edited )
DarkGamer avatar

I said it was from a biased source, not that it was wrong, but if you want to see an example of why it's bad compare the death count in the CNN report vs. this one. It's not "thousands" gunned down, even according to Hamas:

The Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza said 104 were killed and more than 700 injured in the incident, one of the deadliest since the war in Gaza began.

It also includes IDF statements which paint a very different picture of events:

In an initial account, Israel said Gaza residents surrounded the aid trucks and looted the supplies. “During the incident, dozens of Gazans were injured as a result of pushing and trampling,” the Israel Defense Forces told CNN.
An Israeli military spokesperson later said in a briefing that there were two separate incidents involving aid trucks.
First, he says trucks went to the north and were swarmed by crowds, with trucks running over people. Subsequently, he says, a group of Palestinians approached Israeli forces, who then opened fire on the Palestinians.
“The truckloads went into the north, then there was the stampede, and then afterwards, there was the event against our forces. That’s how things transpired this morning,” the spokesman said.

I don't believe anything offhand from such a source, especially on matters regarding Israel, nor should you. Stick to credible organizations if you prefer objective reporting to emotionally charged propaganda.

floofloof,

Israel is responsible for making these people desperate enough that they get trampled in a rush for scarce food. Israel also admits it opened fire on a crowd of hungry civilians. Nothing about this makes the IDF look anything other than very bad.

DarkGamer,
DarkGamer avatar

Although that may be true, a shooting by defense forces at a chaotic scene of looting is certainly more understandable and less egregious than opening fire on innocent people orderly lining up. This article distorts the fundamental facts of what happened. It's clear they want to make Israel look as villainous as possible, objectivity be damned.

bartolomeo,
@bartolomeo@suppo.fi avatar

It also includes IDF statements which paint a very different picture of events:

Stick to credible organizations if you prefer objective reporting to emotionally charged propaganda.

You ok?

DarkGamer,
DarkGamer avatar

Don't you think articles should include statements from both relevant parties?

Bipta,

I suspect this story from CNN is about the same incident: https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/29/middleeast/gaza-city-deaths-food-israel-intl/index.html

DarkGamer,
DarkGamer avatar

Thanks!

MakunaHatata,
OtakuAltair,

They’re biased against a genocidal fascist state? Say it isn’t so!

Th4tGuyII, to world in Brazil fires back at ‘outrageous’ Israeli response to Lula comments
Th4tGuyII avatar

Funny they should be calling people Nazis considering they're the ones actively performing a genocide. I don't see the Brazillians bombing Palestinian hospitals and letting soliders mow down innocent civilians.

bbkpr,

The staggering irony of them doing the very same thing the Nazis did to them to them less than 100 years ago, and then calling an allied country holding them to account for it Nazis, is mind blowing. There are still people alive today who were hunted by Nazis, what do they think, I wonder?

Arelin, (edited ) to worldnews in Israeli troops gun down thousands of Palestinians awaiting aid in north Gaza

“Israel” really wants to dethrone nazi Germany as the most openly genocidal fascist state huh.

No wonder zionists and nazis have a history of cooperating. Might as well be the same thing.

queermunist,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Excuse me, the US is still the king of genocide.

shanie,
shanie avatar

Hot take, but I think we got a dethronement.

Alsephina, (edited )

They try to not be open about it though, at least to its own population, unlike “israel”.

It’s basically a US colony in Palestine though so ig it’s a moot point.

queermunist, (edited )
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

No, not really. There’s a lot of whitewashing of US history, especially in textbooks. If you ask the average American they wouldn’t even call anything the US did “genocide.”

I recommend reading Lies My Teacher Told Me.

Alsephina,

There’s a lot of whitewashing of US history, especially in textbooks. If you ask the average American they wouldn’t even call anything the US did “genocide.”

That’s what I mean. The US is built on genocide and colonization just like “israel”, but they try to not be open about it.

DarkGamer,
DarkGamer avatar

Smallpox did most of the genociding, killed ~90% of Native Americans. It would have been a much different situation and outcome if colonists arrived and the Americas were not depopulated from pandemic. I often wonder what that world would be like.

queermunist,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Oh no that’s new. Back when the genocide was in a more active phase and there were “Indian Wars” they were very explicit about it.

But today, you’re right, they just teach a few key atrocities and handwave the other hundred million. I must have misread lol

I think that’s just the different stages of settler-colonial development.

Tinidril,

Go back far enough and everyone is where they are because their ancestors killed whomever was there first. Not that it justifies anything, but it’s genocides all the way down. Even native Americans wiped out a prior civilization if you go back far enough.

Bridger,

Iirc ghenkis khan has everyone else beat.

queermunist,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Depends on the estimates you use.

teejay, (edited )

No it doesn’t. It’s not even close. In terms of the worst genocides in history by death toll, the U.S. doesn’t even make the top 10 list. Same with a more general list of anthropogenic disasters by death toll.

Leave that hurr durr US is big bad amirite shit on reddit.

queermunist,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Do you… Think that list is authoritative?

The population of Indigenous Americans is estimated to have decreased from approximately 145 million to around 10 million.

135 million.

Not all of that was the US, the old empires of France and Spain and England played a huge role, but since it’s founding the US has killed millions along with Canada and Mexico. Disease played a large role, but much of that was deliberately spread which muddies the estimates.

And that’s just one of the genocides the US was involved in. There have been many others.

teejay, (edited )

Do you… Think that list is authoritative?

Do you… want to provide more authoritative sources? Or even just start with one? So far you’ve cited zero.

Remember, your original assertion was “the US is still the king of genocide.” Assuming your vague phrase of “king of genocide” means total number of people killed, then show an authoritative source that proves it, then we can talk.

brain_in_a_box,

You’re sources contain literal Nazi propaganda and uses numbers from the Black Book of Communism; Queermunist’s comment is more authoritative than that on it’s own.

queermunist, (edited )
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

My attention was originally brought to this by the book Lies My Teacher Told Me - I listened to an audiobook so sadly I can’t really search it for the relevant passage without investing a bunch of time. Instead, here’s the relevant Wikipedia article which covers it. “The population of Indigenous Americans is estimated to have decreased from approximately 145 million to around 7-15 million between the late 15th and late 17th centuries, representing a decline of around 90-95%.”

ThirdWorldOrder,

Where is your list, or sources? Or should we just believe queermunist who I’m guessing is more sympathetic to communist nations?

queermunist,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar
ThirdWorldOrder, (edited )

No context? Your source that you posted even had Spain as killing millions of native Americans. For the USA itself - the trail of tears was 4,000-10,000. Most deaths were through disease.

So how again is the USA the most genocidal country on this planet? More than the holocaust? More than the Armenian genocide? The Killing Fields (Khmer rouge), Rwanda where 800,000 were killed in 100 days?

You are talking out of your ass, queermunist.

queermunist,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

The Trail of Tears was one event among many others. The American Indian wars and Manifest Destiny saw the Native population decline from 600,000 to 250,000.

But the US doesn’t get to pretend it doesn’t inherit the genocide it was founded on! Killings that happened before 1776 were carried out by prominent colonial generals like George Washington before the Founding, and their forefathers like John Washington who the Iroquois named “devourer of villages”.

Let’s not forget the intentional hunting of buffalo to extinction in the wild by the US army, intended to starve the plains Natives to death or force them to flee. The US also had boarding schools like Canada, where they’d kidnap native children and brainwash them to be good little Christians that can’t even speak their native languages.

The fact that you think the genocide was limited to a single event like the Trail of Tears is disturbing.

ThirdWorldOrder, (edited )

The international court doesn’t recognize displacement as genocide.

For fun though, we can use your numbers that have no sources. We will use the displacement numbers as well as all the European numbers that you believe the USA should inherit.

It doesn’t even make the top 10 as far as genocide goes.

queermunist, (edited )
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

If you actually bothered to read the Wikipedia link it would lead you to this article, “Russell Thornton estimated that by 1800, some 600,000 Native Americans lived in the regions that would become the modern United States and declined to an estimated 250,000 by 1890 before rebounding”

350,000 dead from that short period, but that came after the mass colonial genocide in the Americas, where the population of “Indigenous Americans is estimated to have decreased from approximately 145 million to around 7-15 million between the late 15th and late 17th centuries.” Assume 90% of that is from disease, that’s 13 million killed.

I’ll continue quoting from Wikipedia.

Guenter Lewy in 1978 estimated 1,353,000 total deaths in North and South Vietnam during the period 1965–1974 in which the U.S. was most engaged in the war.

About 3 million people died in the Korean War, most of them civilians, making it perhaps the deadliest conflict of the Cold War era

A September 14, 2007, estimate by Opinion Research Business (ORB), an independent British polling agency, suggested that the total Iraqi violent death toll due to the Iraq War since the U.S.-led invasion was in excess of 1.2 million (1,220,580).

Geoffrey B. Robinson, professor of history at UCLA, posits that, based on documentary evidence, powerful foreign states, in particular the United States, the United Kingdom and their allies, were instrumental in facilitating and encouraging the Indonesian Army’s campaign of mass killing, and without such support, the killings would not have happened […] Robert Cribb suggests the most accurate figure is 500,000, though he notes it is incredibly difficult to determine the precise number of people killed. However, Jan Walendouw, one of Suharto’s confidants, cited a number of 1.2 million victims. Vincent Bevins estimates the numbers killed at up to a million or perhaps more.

Declassified CIA documents report that the U.S. Government organized, funded, and equipped the 1954 coup d’état, deposing the elected Guatemalan presidential government of Jacobo Árbenz Guzmán […] By the end of the war, it is estimated that 140,000–200,000 people had been killed or had disappeared.

Due to its clandestine nature, the precise number of deaths directly attributable to Operation Condor is highly disputed. Some estimates are that at least 60,000 deaths can be attributed to Condor, with up to 30,000 of these in Argentina.

And now this newest genocide in Gaza.

And on and on it goes. Death to America.

teejay,

Death to America

That’s a wrap, friend. I called you out on this right at the beginning. There’s no point in further discussion.

queermunist,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s the internet, there was never a point. 🙄

ThirdWorldOrder,

If you had read your own sources then you would have posted the article you are quoting from now first. It’s weird that you assume someone will click on every link in your Wikipedia page.

A war is not necessarily genocide. I think you have trouble with understanding what genocide is. You are simply grasping at straws. USA is now killing people in Gaza? So anyone who does business with United States is now USAs fault?

“Death to America”? You’re calling for death to Americans while at the same time you are crying about genocide. You’re nothing but a clown. Also, you’re from Iowa lmao.

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

queermunist,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

USA is now killing people in Gaza? So anyone who does business with United States is now USAs fault?

The bombs and bullets are from the US. The aircraft carrier in the Gulf protecting Israel is from the US. The attacks on the Houthis are from the US.

When the US directly and indirectly, militarily and financially and even diplomatically in the UN supports a genocide it is responsible.

You aren’t willing to credit the US for the genocide being done by the 51st State. 🤡

ThirdWorldOrder,

You still have no idea what genocide is. It’s common for people who don’t know what they’re talking to derail. I’ll oblige.

Israel makes their own weapons and imports from Canada, USA, Italy, Germany, and the UK. Shall we count those countries as committing genocide as well then?

The carrier in the gulf is to prevent a country like Iran from intervening (which would also be more lives lost)

Let me know when you can figure out what genocide is.

queermunist, (edited )
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Article 2 of the Genocide Convention:


<span style="color:#323232;">  ... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:
</span><span style="color:#323232;">
</span><span style="color:#323232;">    (a) Killing members of the group;
</span><span style="color:#323232;">    (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
</span><span style="color:#323232;">    (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
</span><span style="color:#323232;">    (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
</span><span style="color:#323232;">    (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
</span>

How the fuck is this not genocide? This war is part of a broader goal to eradicate the Palestinian national/ethnic group in whole or in part. They are killing, causing serious harm, inflicting conditions calculated to destroy, and preventing births within the group. It’s genocide. It’s so obviously genocide and that’s why the ICJ found in South Africa’s favor. They bombed people trying to get flour! It’s a god damn genocide.

Alsephina,

Leave that hurr durr US is big bad amirite shit on reddit.

I think you misspelled China. Reddit being completely filled with imperial core propaganda is one of the main reasons a lot of us came to Lemmy.

Zehzin, (edited )
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

Brits and Spaniards didn’t kill like 50 million people for you to give the crown to an upstart

queermunist,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

That genocide isn’t the only genocide the US has been part of, either as a direct genocidier or indirectly by supporting the genocidal regime.

No one is gonna take this crown from the US!

ThirdWorldOrder,

Please, do tell, how is the USA the most genocidal country on this earth?

explodicle,
ThirdWorldOrder,
explodicle,

No the first try was enough, I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt in case you were a child or just got a computer.

ThirdWorldOrder,

Benefit of the doubt in what regard? The claim was that USA was the most genocidal country.

I appreciate you giving a child like me the benefit of the doubt. Are you smarter than a 5th grader?

Nonameuser678,
@Nonameuser678@aussie.zone avatar

Gonna throw a hat in the ring here for the British Empire as the king of genocide.

Letstakealook, to worldnews in Settlers Burn Through West Bank Village Under Army Protection

Israel’s neighbors really need to come in and send the colonizers home.

Kben, to worldnews in Settlers Burn Through West Bank Village Under Army Protection
Kben avatar

So when do the Palestinians in the west bank have a right to defend themselves.

CountVon, to worldnews in Settlers Burn Through West Bank Village Under Army Protection
@CountVon@sh.itjust.works avatar

Same playbook the IDF ran during the Sabra and Shatila massacre. Cordon off an area and let some militia do the dirty work. Bet they’ll investigate themselves after the fact and conclude they had no “direct responsibility”, just like they did previously.

Deceptichum, to news in ICC chief prosecutor says probe underway into Israeli war crimes in Gaza
Deceptichum avatar

We’re going to need UN peacekeepers on the ground in Israel to stop it however.

nekandro, to worldnews in Washington ready to blackmail Maldives for banning Israeli travelers

If this is an Axios article, why not just post Axios?

CthulhusIntern, to chapotraphouse in Northern Israeli settlement severs ties with Tel Aviv, demands army withdrawal: Report

The only thing that can destroy the Zionist settler-colonial project backed by the most powerful empire the world has ever seen is the Zionist settler-colonial project backed by thr most powerful empire the world has ever seen itself.

Azarova, to chapotraphouse in Northern Israeli settlement severs ties with Tel Aviv, demands army withdrawal: Report
@Azarova@hexbear.net avatar

So is this going to actually lead to anything? They were whining earlier this month and were saying they were going to secede, but then nothing happened.

Frank, to chapotraphouse in Northern Israeli settlement severs ties with Tel Aviv, demands army withdrawal: Report
@Frank@hexbear.net avatar

yud-rational balkanizing in the middle of a war is a good idea and they should do that. You can trust me i am good at wars.

Diuretic_Materialism, to chapotraphouse in Northern Israeli settlement severs ties with Tel Aviv, demands army withdrawal: Report

So… what’s their strat here? Are they gonna form their own militia or do they think they can surrender to Hezbollah and be left alone?

Carrolade, to worldnews in Rafah death toll surges as Israel rains down white phosphorus [May 8, 2024 | The Cradle]

White phosphorus is frequently used in smoke munitions, where it is not prohibited by international law. Additionally, a thermobaric weapon is another name for a fuel-air bomb, where an explosive is dispersed in the air and then the whole cloud is ignited, creating a large explosion. Thermobaric weapons are not banned, and have nothing to do with WP.

I’m making no claims about the IDF using or not using WP on civilians, which is illegal, but simply pointing out the misleading use of buzzwords in this summary.

livus,
livus avatar

White phosphorus is restricted under international law. If it is being used in Gaza that is a war crime.

The usage of white phosphorus is restricted under international humanitarian law. Although there can be lawful uses, it must never be fired at, or in close proximity to, a populated civilian area or civilian infrastructure, due to the high likelihood that the fires and smoke it causes spread. Such attacks, which fail to distinguish between civilians and civilian objects and fighters and military objectives, are indiscriminate and thus prohibited. - Amnesty International

Carrolade,

It’s a little more complicated than that.

That is specific to incendiary munitions, where the WP is used for its flame effects. WP also happens to be what makes tracer rounds glow as they fly through the air. Because the risk of fire is very low, this is an example of a usage that is not banned, even in civilian areas.

…wikipedia.org/…/Convention_on_Certain_Convention…

treaties.un.org/pages/ViewDetails.aspx?chapter=26…

Protocol 3 is what you’re looking for.

TIMMAY, to worldnews in Rafah death toll surges as Israel rains down white phosphorus [May 8, 2024 | The Cradle]

That’s like a warcrime type guy, right?

Zehzin,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

It’s not a war crime if everyone else dies

TIMMAY,

loophole!

mozz, to worldnews in Israel Dropped US-Made Bombs on Lebanon Medical Center
@mozz@mbin.grits.dev avatar

Almost all the bombs Israel drops are US made

Some are from Germany, but it's America booms most of the time

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