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Visstix, to world in EXCLUSIVE: “You Have Been Warned”: Republican Senators Threaten the ICC Prosecutor over Possible Israel Arrest Warrants

So america has a “right” to invade my country if the ICC prosecutes a non american war criminal? Huh.

Carrolade,

This is the military-happy wing, so they really don’t need much excuse. The “tougher” something sounds, the better. In their view anyway.

Melkath,

That distinction doesn't exist anymore.

Both wings have gone full warmonger.

DarkThoughts,

Kinda wild, especially since they leave other Americans to rot in foreign prisons. I highly doubt they'd actually do it though, and if they do I hope the EU shoots those troops out of the sky if they really dare to take hostile action. I think it's just stupid strongmen policy to appear tough.

IcePee,

I think shooting foreign troops would be seen as an escalation. And I don’t think Europe wants to see where that will go.

DarkThoughts,

Invading foreign countries already is an escalation. You cannot the defensive actions against that an "escalation". That's Russian type of logic.

barsoap, (edited )

I’d say the US will definitely cease its aggression when the first French nuke hits an aircraft carrier, or similar target. The French do commit to warning shots in their first-strike doctrine.

…unlikely to come to that point, though, Europe can stalemate the US by conventional means with the current arms levels, they’d never get boots on the ground. It’s also not like we’d need nukes to sink those carriers. Washington is then welcome to seethe at an ocean’s distance.

Buelldozer, (edited )
@Buelldozer@lemmy.today avatar

France nuking American Aircraft Carriers?!?! At that point there wouldn’t be any need for “boots on the ground” because France would be nothing but glass and smoking craters.

That scenario is literally the end of the world.

barsoap,

Then don’t threaten France, or its vital interests (which definitely include the Netherlands) with invasion. Simple as that. As de Gaulle himself said, you can switch around nationalities yourself:

Within ten years, we shall have the means to kill 80 million Russians. I truly believe that one does not light-heartedly attack people who are able to kill 80 million Russians, even if one can kill 800 million French, that is if there were 800 million French.

France won’t be glass and craters for the precise reason that the US would be glass and craters if they don’t cease their aggression. Ceasing aggression, France will see no need to first strike, crisis averted. Simple as that.

It might come as a surprise for Americans that there’s smaller countries that can’t be bullied around by military force but trust me the French are dead serious about their nuclear first strike doctrine. Which the US is well-advised to also take seriously so that the French won’t need to fire even a warning shot. They’d also prefer not to.

The warning shot, btw, won’t come via ICBM so that it’s clear that it’s not an actual extinction-level attack. The French have cruise missiles specifically for that purpose, until they explode they look like any other cruise missile you’d lobthrow at a carrier.

Maggoty,

Oh we’re dumb enough. Trump redrew a hurricane prediction with sharpie on live national television. These are not rational people and that’s always been the downfall of MAD as a theory. It requires rational actors.

ShepherdPie,

An they unironically use “sovereignty” as the justification.

Maggoty,

Well no. Nobody has a right to invade your country. But we’ll do it anyways. We really are that stupid.

intrepid, (edited )

The euphemistically named ‘Hague invasion law’ actually only promises to take any action necessary to avoid being held responsible. In real terms though, any military action against Hague will deeply polarize the world and destroy the current world order where the US enjoys some dominance and influence. The resulting scenario will see the US attracting the hostility of a lot of formerly allied nations. It will be worse than being held responsible at the ICC. So you’re kind of safe.

ysjet,

You say that like a significant number of these Republican’s donors would not salivate over being able to fracture the US from world politics like that.

…Russia. I’m talking about Russia, if you’re unaware.

Maggoty,

The American Republican party has been trying to break the UN for decades under the theory that our sovereignty allows us to take unilateral action globally and the UN is a threat to that. They sell it domestically as any law we pass because of the UN is an impingement on our freedoms and sovereignty. But it’s pretty blatantly about their foreign policy goals. And when I mean sell it, I mean literally. There are books you can buy where the UN has “invaded” the US after the Democrats let immigration get so bad we lost all civil order and of course it’s 300 pages of militiamen using painstakingly described weapons to fight the UN forces.

We really do have some crazy people and they got organized after we elected our first black president.

FMT99, to world in EXCLUSIVE: “You Have Been Warned”: Republican Senators Threaten the ICC Prosecutor over Possible Israel Arrest Warrants

These same senators are responsible for spouting tongs of other of nonsense, I wouldn’t take it too seriously and don’t make up the majority of even the insane wing of the GOP. Not saying this is not a threat that, for example, Trump might make if he gets elected but for now I would take this with a grain of salt. They’re just puffing up their chests for their own base here, as usual.

Drusas,

Tongs?

DoctorNope, to world in EXCLUSIVE: “You Have Been Warned”: Republican Senators Threaten the ICC Prosecutor over Possible Israel Arrest Warrants

I dunno, it seems to me that if someone starts threatening you over something you’re investigating, you should probably take that as a sign to investigate even harder…

WhatAmLemmy, (edited )

Note that the American domestic fascist party also supports a (foreign) jewish nationalist ethnostate (zionism), despite being the main group promoting antisemitism domestically.

It’s almost like authoritarians and fascists are defined by their authoritarianism and fascism — authoritarians of a feather, genocide together — instead of their religion, race, or ethnicity…

Melkath,

So are you calling the "domestic fascist party" the republican party or the 2 party system?

You do know it's not the Republicans doing all the foreign fascism right now, correct?

intrepid,

The common factor between their support of Zionism and their domestic antisemitism, is hate. They support Zionism since they hate the Muslims. They’re domestically antisemitic because they hate the Jews. They’re motivated and driven by hate. They are the poison that the civilized world dies on.

ShepherdPie,

I’m sure a lot of it has to do with campaign donations as well. The party is full of hate, but I feel these politicians are just mouthpieces for their donors in their own personal pursuit of power and wealth.

Beetlejuice001,

Exactly, Christians have no pious convictions or beliefs. They say and do whatever they’re paid to say or is convenient

halcyoncmdr,
@halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

There’s an additional aspect. An interpretation of the end-times prophecy. Some believe (primarily evangelicals) that God promised the Holy Land to the Jewish people, and that reestablishing Israel’s political boundaries will begin the end times. So as much as they may hate the Jews, they must be in power in Israel.

ObviouslyNotBanana, to world in EXCLUSIVE: “You Have Been Warned”: Republican Senators Threaten the ICC Prosecutor over Possible Israel Arrest Warrants
@ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

But they really want the ICC to have Putin, huh

Maybe they don’t, I don’t know. Republicans are kind of unpredictable on that.

I’m not even saying the ICC should judge the case in any particular way, just that a court should be able to go through the process they need in order to make a judgement.

wewbull,

No they don’t, and that’s just another reason to use the veil of Judaism to attack them. They just want to have their oil and gas (in both cases).

BrikoX,
@BrikoX@lemmy.zip avatar

US didn’t “endorse” the ICC arrest warrant of Putin exactly for the same reason. They are not part of ICC, since half of their intelligence members and past presidents could be charged there for war crimes.

ObviouslyNotBanana,
@ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

I know the US as a nation didn’t, but there were a lot of sentiments from individuals. That said my comment was of course intended to be a bit light hearted and humorous in nature.

uis,

Does ICC charge dead?

BrikoX,
@BrikoX@lemmy.zip avatar

No. Like any court, they only deal with people physically in front of them.

uis,
@uis@lemmy.world avatar

Oh. I thought past presidents that could be charged with warcrimes implied long dead.

And side question: is it worth keeping those fossils alive to bring to ICC? The Old Rat is 71 and does not become younger.

BrikoX,
@BrikoX@lemmy.zip avatar

What I meant was that if they were signatories to the Rome Statute at the time, actions they committed would quality for war crime charges.

As far as if it’s worth it? I would say yes. It would legitimize US in the global community. Right now everyone knows US is the biggest hypocrite on the world stage.

badbytes, to usa in A Majority of Democratic Voters Believe Israel Is Committing Genocide

Isn’t every voter a Democratic voter?

umbrella, to usa in A Majority of Democratic Voters Believe Israel Is Committing Genocide
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

the fact 38% of the us believes theres no genocide going on is what catches my attention here

pingveno, (edited ) to usa in A Majority of Democratic Voters Believe Israel Is Committing Genocide

Eh. “A Majority of <Party> Voters” is not that impressive. According to Gallup’s running poll, Democratic Party affiliation is currently at 28%. A slim majority of a minority is… nice? It needs to be reflected strongly among independents and perhaps the opposite party to be reflected in the general population. For comparison, the majority of Republicans think the 2020 election was stolen. This view is not reflected among the general population.

I actually think a more notable statistic in this poll is the Republicans at 23%. That tells me that reactions to what is happening in Gaza has had a bipartisan effect, which has often not been the case with Israel.

PowerCrazy,

a bipartisan effect, which has often not been the case with Israel.

Unconditional Support for Israel is absolutely bipartisan. It’s one of the few bipartisan issues that all 3 branches of government agree on. The other being unlimited funding for MIC projects.

Phegan, to usa in A Majority of Democratic Voters Believe Israel Is Committing Genocide

Too bad democratic leadership has their head so far up AIPAC’s ass they won’t do shit.

Feathercrown, to usa in A Majority of Democratic Voters Believe Israel Is Committing Genocide

That graph is pleasingly symmetrical

Ensign_Crab, to usa in A Majority of Democratic Voters Believe Israel Is Committing Genocide

Well, yes.

Centrists and progressives both know Netanyahu is committing genocide.

Progressives oppose it.

Centrists don’t.

disguy_ovahea,

Why do you choose to label people as either progressives or centrists?

Ensign_Crab,

Because centrists don’t like the more accurate term “Vichy Democrats”.

KISSmyOSFeddit, to usa in A Majority of Democratic Voters Believe Israel Is Committing Genocide

A majority of Republican voters also believe Israel is committing genocide, and that they should genocide harder.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

And also they should get started on the second temple and breeding a red heifer

Duamerthrax,
barsquid,

Yeah, I want to see the percentages on that question. Psychos in Congress are certainly loud about it. And Donald wants to “finish the job.”

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Not “committing”, because that would mean it’s bad. “Performing” genocide, maybe.

macabrett, (edited ) to usa in A Majority of Democratic Voters Believe Israel Is Committing Genocide

The only political power you have within America’s political system electoralism is a game of chicken wherein you withhold your vote unless change occurs. If you’re mad at people saying they won’t vote for Biden, I urge you to direct your energy at Biden and the DNC.

There are other avenues to change, but they get your head bashed in by cops, so I’m confident the people tut-tutting about voting will never get involved at that level. Must feel great to ignore the devastating impact of American foreign policy just because it doesn’t happen near you!

atzanteol,

Democrats are going to elect Trump. 🙄

macabrett,

Can’t tell if you’re talking about me or about Biden, but I’m not a democrat, so I’ll assume you’re implying that Biden is going to elect Trump and I agree.

davel, (edited )
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

The only political power you have within America’s political system

Within electoralism, anyway. It’s not the only power we have, it’s just the only one we’re taught, and the only one in corporate media’s Overton window.

ETA: Thanks to two (now three) red scares, I probably should spell it out for the peanut gallery: Labor power.

macabrett,

Yeah, I agree. I definitely meant “electoralism” where I said “America’s political system”. Thanks for the correction!

psvrh, (edited ) to usa in A Majority of Democratic Voters Believe Israel Is Committing Genocide
@psvrh@lemmy.ca avatar

He and his party are doing the calculus and figuring that they’ll do better supporting Israel because, frankly, where else are those voters going to go? Trump? He’d nuke Gaza if Netanyahu co-signed a loan for him.

Democratic voters need to vote blue no matter who, and then primary out the corporatist candidates at the earliest opportunity.

This has to be a two-pronged effort: keep the Republicans out of office permanently, and clean the Democratic slate from within.

PeepinGoodArgs,

This is really the only strategy and we’ve seen how incredibly effective it has been as the GOP changes into rabid racists.

But better democrats can’t employ exactly the same strategy as their far right insurgent counterparts, because we’re not racists assholes trying to undermine democracy.

WraithGear,
@WraithGear@lemmy.world avatar

Wasn’t it determined that the primaries are not a democratic vote, but a suggestion the DNC will keep in mind when they ultimately dictate who will run? The real people who choose are super delegates who are insiders who vote to maintain the status quo. So claiming the primaries are the correct venue would not be correct.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Bernie won a primary. AOC won a primary. Clearly the DNC isn’t all-powerful. We have to get as many progressives in every position that we can.

WraithGear,
@WraithGear@lemmy.world avatar

Specifically not a primary for president. The statement that primaries are the place to make the party change are false and i consider it maliciously so.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

President is just one primary of thousands all across the country. All the fascist laws being passed in red states? That’s being done by Republicans at the state level and the president can’t do can’t do anything about it.

WraithGear,
@WraithGear@lemmy.world avatar

Then you won’t mind if people protest vote during the presidential election.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t mind if people protest vote during primary elections - that’s what they’re for. Protest voting in a two party system is shooting yourself in the foot unless you like the other guy running.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t mind if people protest vote during primary elections - that’s what they’re for.

This feels a lot like giving your little brother a disconnected controller so he stops bothering you.

samus12345, (edited )
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Republicans love that you think like that. They make sure to vote in every election.

If enough people actually protest vote in a primary, it will affect who is in the election.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

If enough people actually protest vote in a primary, it will affect who is in the election.

That has not happened once in the 24 years I’ve been voting. In literally every election, even odd years.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

…Because not nearly enough people get out and vote, especially in primaries.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod, (edited )
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

Like I said: It’s like handing your kid brother a controller that doesn’t work. I keep pressing the button but nothing happens.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

And as long as everyone isn’t doing their part, it won’t. That’s how democracy works. The ones who vote get to decide everything. Republicans vote.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah but I’m voting and don’t decide shit

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Because you’re one of many. The many who agree with you need to vote, too, because the ones who don’t sure do.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

It still feels fucking useless

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

I know, our electoral system sucks and is very demoralizing. But giving up completely means letting the fascists win. I refuse to do that.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

It seems like the fascists are gonna win anyway

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

They might. But it won’t be because I personally didn’t do anything to oppose them.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

Voting seems like the least effective thing you could do

samus12345, (edited )
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

And yet, their supporters vote all the time. Now why would they do that if it’s so useless? Also, not voting at all is the least you can do.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

Because they know there’s more of them than us and can win easily. I’d be a lot more enthused about it if I got results, too.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

No, there’s actually a lot more of us than them. The combination of gerrymandering and 2 senators per state gives them far more representation than they should have, then add in non-conservative voters being much less likely to vote and they end up with minority rule. But it’s not inevitable - if everyone else voted in the same percentages as they do, they wouldn’t have a majority in Congress or be in the White House ever again.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

If your solution to a problem is “Everyone should just…” then it’s not a solution. Plus it sounds like not only is the controller disconnected, it’s designed to not work even if it is connected.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

If your solution to the problem is “just give up”, then it’s even less of a solution.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

I’d be banned if I posted my solution.

Besides, I’m still voting. I’m not going to stop, because it is a helpful illustration of how little it actually can change things. 24 years straight and I still live in a shithole ruled by idiots.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

It may well come to bloody revolution. But I appreciate that you’re saving that as a last resort.

TrickDacy,

where false are those voters going to go? Trump? He’d nuke Gaza if Netanyahu consigned a loan for him.

There are a disturbing number of people who give no shits about this and instead think not voting for Biden will send a productive message.

psvrh,
@psvrh@lemmy.ca avatar

What’s even scarier is those same people seem completely oblivious to the alternative, which is Mr. “Muslim Ban, Shithole Countries, I like Jewish people counting my money, I’d just nuke the whole place” Trump.

Like, your problem is genocide and you’ll basically pave the road for the candidate that explicitly said they’d do a genocide, and whose supporters would cheer him on as the missiles launched, over one that you have some influence over?

samus12345, (edited )
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

It is sadly funny when you think about it.

Biden loses

Democrat politicians: “Oh no, we only have all of our wealth to protect us from the worst effects of the US falling into a fascist hellscape. Those voters sure showed us!”

TrickDacy,

I mean there’s a reason “cut off your nose to spite your face” is a saying about being super wise and practical

Maggoty,

That was what we said in 2020 and here we are. We went backwards from Obama. Either he does the right thing or there have to be consequences.

psvrh,
@psvrh@lemmy.ca avatar

Yeah, but the consequences is a second Trump administration if you don’t vote for a Democratic candidate for president, and two to four more years of legislative gridlock if the Republicans aren’t reduced to powerless rump.

Do you want a second Trump administration? Think really hard about that, because the last one vacillated between “Berlusconi-level incompetency” and “Mussolini-level malice”.

The stakes really are to high to “try to teach Biden and the Democrats a lesson”, and it’s not like corporate Democrats really care, because they’d rather lose to a Republican than get primaried by a progressive and stop the gravy train forever, plus they have this weird idea that if they’re “civil” they won’t find themselves lynched during the American Krystallnacht.

The problem with not primaring out corporate Democrats is that American voters…didn’t do it. Not that it didn’t work as a strategy, because replacing corporate Republicans with fascist nutjobs is working out just fine. Maybe progressives, or at least progressive Millenials and Gen-Xers, really are too lazy to affect real change?

barsquid,

I’m sure allowing a manchild narcissist authoritarian insurrectionist to appoint more judges and sell more state secrets will teach Biden and the Dems a big lesson. 1/3 of SCOTUS were installed by an insurrectionist and about 1/2 of the House and Senate are backing an insurrectionist.

Maggoty,

Yeah it’s pretty grim. But political parties don’t listen to anything but votes and power. They aren’t benevolent organizations. If they won’t listen to the people who voted for them last time, then voting for them this time just tells them they can ignore you.

barsquid,

It’s astonishing to see you children with oppositional defiant disorder play pretend that there is no difference either way. You are privileged.

frauddogg, (edited )
@frauddogg@lemmygrad.ml avatar

So it’s privileged to oppose genocide, cracker? It’s privileged to turn one’s back on murderers who do nothing for us, cracker? It’s suddenly okay to weaponize disorders I’m certain you’ve never studied, because you’re not getting your omnicidal way, cracker? What’s really astonishing is watching you crackers resort to every libel and slander in the book when the actually civilized world won’t go along with your butchering, cracker.

OhHiMarx,

I agree, the Democrats can do literally anything (up to and including supporting genocide) so long as they’re marginally less bad than Republicans and we should support them for this reason. This strategy has no foreseeable consequences and can only make things better in the long run.

PowerCrazy,

Sounds like Democracy is working as expected? The people want the death of American democracy, you should probably ask yourself why you are so keen on supporting it.

Dkarma, to usa in A Majority of Democratic Voters Believe Israel Is Committing Genocide

This just in: Democrats BELIEVE FACTS!!!

SOMETHING SOMETHING THIS ONE WEIRD TRICK!

disguy_ovahea,

In all honesty, it’s not disbelief of facts. This issue really highlights how perspectives completely depend on the news sources consumed. Media bias has become so extreme, that factual reporting comes second to subjective inference.

idkmybffjoeysteel, to usa in A Majority of Democratic Voters Believe Israel Is Committing Genocide
@idkmybffjoeysteel@hexbear.net avatar

So they accept it is genocide and yet

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