mondoweiss,
@mondoweiss@social.mondoweiss.net avatar

Israel has already dropped more bombs on Gaza in six days than the U.S. dropped on Afghanistan in a single year. Now, the Israeli military is ordering over one million Palestinian civilians to flee their homes. This is genocide and ethnic cleansing.

https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/israel-is-preparing-to-commit-genocide/?utm_content=bufferef74f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=mastodon&utm_campaign=buffer

lillyfinch,
@lillyfinch@mstdn.social avatar

@mondoweiss people are so caught up on the atrocities committed by Humas, justifiably, they don’t see the inhumanity of the last 75 years or the irony.

krisbrowne42,
@krisbrowne42@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@mondoweiss What are the odds that before the smoke clears, cleared neighborhoods are being flattened for new settlements?

asbestos,
@asbestos@toot.community avatar

@mondoweiss
Is it OK when Hamas does it?

ZillaMon,
@ZillaMon@mastodon.social avatar

@asbestos @mondoweiss whataboutism is strong with you

asbestos,
@asbestos@toot.community avatar

@ZillaMon

@mondoweiss
Yeah, sure that right. If Isreal had just stormed in and killed a bunch of kids I'd be all on here like "but Hamas"

ZillaMon,
@ZillaMon@mastodon.social avatar

@asbestos @mondoweiss whataboutism

Beeks,
@Beeks@mstdn.party avatar

@asbestos @mondoweiss if I punch you and you punch me back, who should get most of the blame?

asbestos,
@asbestos@toot.community avatar

@Beeks

@mondoweiss
So are you trying to say Isreal started this so they had it coming?

Beeks,
@Beeks@mstdn.party avatar

@asbestos @mondoweiss if it must be black and white for you, sure?

Violence begets violence. We can blame Britain if that's more palatable for you. Or the UN or the many others whose choices and actions have led us here.

Hamas is an evil group of terrorists but they didn't spontaneously appear out of a void.

asbestos,
@asbestos@toot.community avatar

@Beeks

@mondoweiss
I just see many people Hamas or imagine they are some sort of freedom fighters, who are doing bad things because Israel "made them do it."

mondoweiss,
@mondoweiss@social.mondoweiss.net avatar

@asbestos @Beeks Multiple things can be true at the same time. This is a world of "and", not "or".

It is true that the root causes of all this are the Israeli occupation and apartheid.

It can also be true that various actors violate international law.

asbestos,
@asbestos@toot.community avatar

@mondoweiss

@Beeks
So everything would be just fine if Isreal just ceased to exist? Because 'root cause'

Beeks,
@Beeks@mstdn.party avatar

@asbestos @mondoweiss if you're waving a magic wand I'd rather you create some sort of universal empathy shared among all humans rather than make an entire group of people disappear as that probably won't be ideal for, well, those people at a start.

asbestos,
@asbestos@toot.community avatar

@Beeks

@mondoweiss
I have zero desire to make any group of people disappear. Unless that group is nazis who want other groups to disappear. I have zero sympathy for idiotic religious zealots of any stripe. But I'm a little taken aback at how many people on here seem to be giving cover to one band of murderous zealots, while condemning another group in total. That's all. I guess I should have expected it. But the world is not always divided up into oppressor and oppressed.

WraithGear,

@asbestos @Beeks @mondoweiss we are giving cover to civilian lives. For some reason you conflate hamas with Palestinians.

asbestos,
@asbestos@toot.community avatar

@WraithGear

@Beeks @mondoweiss
That must be it.

Beeks,
@Beeks@mstdn.party avatar

@asbestos @mondoweiss I found this video just now that does a pretty good job summing up why the area never has peace: https://youtu.be/kI_spMxp6t8?si=1oyT70D6oBYyZMpI

asbestos,
@asbestos@toot.community avatar

@Beeks

@mondoweiss
It never has peace because of a bunch of religious zealots & bigots live there. Everyone thinks God is on their side, so that pretty much allows you to go atrocity everyone. The whole situation is people at their worst and it's really getting to me. It's just never going to end.

asbestos,
@asbestos@toot.community avatar

@Beeks

@mondoweiss
I don't think that Al Jazeera is a great source for info on that. Saying this conflict began 1000 years ago is off by a lot.

Beeks,
@Beeks@mstdn.party avatar

@asbestos @mondoweiss hard to fit the entire history of the multiple vast empires that claimed that land into a 15 minute video.

asbestos,
@asbestos@toot.community avatar

@Beeks

@mondoweiss
True story. IMHO, any facts don't matter to those involved.

iju,
@iju@mastodon.social avatar

@asbestos @mondoweiss

It's not ok when anyone is doing it. However, only one party in this conflict is a democratic republic with good reputation, powerful allies, and are (at least rhetorically) concerned on human lives. They're supposed to be hold in a vastly higher standard.

Further, the consensus in Israel seems to be according to gallups that the actor most likely to blame for all this is the Israeli cabinet and their (far-)right policies.

asbestos,
@asbestos@toot.community avatar

@iju

@mondoweiss
The far right in Israel is not much if any better than Hamas. I understand a lot of people don't acknowledge Israels atrocities. I also see a lot of people on here who should have more perspective. One can not judge these events starting at some arbitrary point when Israel started winning wars.

iju,
@iju@mastodon.social avatar

@asbestos @mondoweiss

The problems date back to the start of the British Mandate. The same stupid shit that Brits did everywhere where they got their hands and started drawing lines.

That's 100 years ago and about quarter century before Israel.

asbestos,
@asbestos@toot.community avatar

@iju

@mondoweiss
So it was the Israeli cabinet that made people rush into Israel and kill children? The far right are not blameless but there was deliberate and intentional killing of non combatants and children.

iju,
@iju@mastodon.social avatar

@asbestos @mondoweiss

I'm not expert why gallups (and Haaretz) have concluded as they have. For the sake of this conversation it's enough that they have.

eastfloc,
@eastfloc@sonomu.club avatar
squig,

@mondoweiss How ironic..

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