I'm ready to install Linux, but I'd like your opinion first

Falcon, 3 months ago

If you’re going to use nvidia, don’t even touch wayland. Truly an awful experience.

Bloat does matter it is extremely important, not because having a bunch of apps slows anything down or has any tangible impact in that regard. Because it isn’t as sexy as somebody’s hyper specific gentoo install compiled without some specific module.

The reason bloat is such a big deal, particularly if you’re new to it, is because it’s confusing. if you’re trying to fix a problem that you have run into / possibly contributed to, a dozen different programs running in the background that you didn’t put there is going leave you frustrated and disenfranchised.

Pick a modular distribution like Arch, take the loss that is your weekend putting it together and develop an understanding of how the pieces fit together. If you really don’t have time choose something like eg endeavourOS. ( or even Void is quite nice (but non systemd so less conventional))

I would personally recommend avoiding something like fedora or Debian. They are both fantastic distributions that work very well. They are not good at teaching new users how to fix problems and that should be your primary goal here.

Nibodhika, 3 months ago

• Is Wayland worth using? Especially when you consider all the issues that may come from using an NVIDIA card.

Short answer, no. There are advantages, but not worth it on an nvidia card. Wayland will replace Xorg very soon is a saying for over a decade, there’s reasons it hasn’t happened yet, nvidia is one of them.

• Does bloat actually matter or is it just a meme?

For starting up, just a meme, on the long run it’s nice to have a small system, but not that important i£ you have the disk to spare.

• What are some habits I should practice in order to keep my system organized and manageable?

Yes, the main one is “use the package manager”. The second one is keep your /home in a different partition.

• Any other resources besides the Arch Wiki that I should be aware of?

I would say that any community is also a good resource, since people are usually helpful.

• What do you wish you knew when you first started using Linux that would have saved you a headache in the future?

Set your /home to a different partition, I know I already mentioned this but it will save your ass the first t*me you break your system and have to reinstall.

vzq, 3 months ago

Set your /home to a different partition, I know I already mentioned this but it will save your ass the first t*me you break your system and have to reinstall.

Also back up your fstab so you know what partition/disk UUID is what.

SpaceCadet, 3 months ago

Or you know, just backup your system entirely.

vzq, 3 months ago

I don’t believe in backing up anything that is not user files. Pets vs cattle and all that.

SpaceCadet, 3 months ago

Unless you have a very clearly predefined and unchanging use case, I think a personal computer will always be a pet and trying to enforce a cattle paradigm on it is a mistake.

Furthermore I find it a waste of time sorting out “user files” from “system files”, not to mention that it is error prone, when I can easily just back up everything and be sure. I don’t ever intend to restore “everything” as a whole, but being able to refer to previous versions of random files (like your /etc/fstab), even if it’s just for troubleshooting, has already proven to be invaluable for me.

danielfgom, 3 months ago

I’d say avoid Wayland for now. There’s no real benefit to it at the moment and at least your card works with X11. If the Linux Mint team are happy to wait and just test it out at the moment, that tells me that is the way to go.

Not sure what bloat people mentioned but Linux doesn’t have bloat. The distro chooses their preferred apps which they hope everyone will like but it’s easy to remove them if you don’t and use the app you want. If it’s a system app (.deb, rpm etc) it will barely take up any space anyway. Only flatpaks and snaps take up huge amount of space. I wouldn’t recommend using alot of those as you’ll be pressed for disk space

Linux doesn’t require maintenance. It typically just works. It’s not like Windows where you run a cleaner every so often. Just just use it normally and don’t work about it.

What I wish I knew at the start: Linux Mint is the best distro. I wasted a lot of time distro hopping only to realise I just want a stable distro that gets out of the way but is thoughtfully put together with nice touches. Mint is that. I use Linux Mint Debian Edition because I don’t like canonical.

It’s been rock solid except for when the kernel broke my WiFi, but I had a time shift backup so in 5 minutes I had my pre-update system back and working.

tomcatt360, 3 months ago

I highly recommend timeshift. It makes it easy to make system snapshots (think system restore points) at regular intervals so that if you try something and it breaks your system, you can restore it to a working state. It has saved me hours of work from all of the reinstalls that I didn’t have to do. I wish I had something like this when I first started out with Linux. It would have saved me dozens of Linux installs.

loudWaterEnjoyer, 3 months ago

Don’t listen to the trolls please, you have to think long term, how will you grow in the next 2 to 5 (or even 10) years, because without a doubt you will grow and have a learning curve which alters the way you will use your machine. There are tons and tons of solutions and people pitching it from their Linux ricer power user perspective.

Don’t make yourself regret and/or spent countless hours switching back and forth, solving issues, looking through help articles, etc etc

I know it’s hard but trust me, you literally cannot make a good choice now with your current state. Just install Ubuntu and get a hang of it, use it, do your stuff you want to do and when you are comfortable with Ubuntu, then throw that piece of junk in the trash and switch to Debian Stable - no, not SID, no you won’t miss out on all the cool bleeding edge AUR packages.

When you take this path I described you will grow with the system and you will be able to make the decision based on your needs, wants and use cases. Trust me or suffer, I am sorry new guy.

Classy, 3 months ago

I’m downvoting this comment specifically because you decided that you had to make your long comment in a larger font just to stand out from the crowd. Very spammy, dude. I’m sure your opinions are just as worth reading without you having to put flashing lights on them.

captain_aggravated, 3 months ago

• “Is Wayland worth using, especially with Nvidia” I have no personal first-hand experience with Wayland; I run Linux Mint Cinnamon Edition, which is still X11 for the moment. MY personal philosophy is I’ll adopt Wayland when Mint does. Basically don’t worry about it.
• “Does bloat actually matter or is it just a meme?” It is 93.3% just a meme. The most extravagant diamond encrusted froie gras kitchen sink apocalypse bunker mega yacht Linux distro you can find is going to be slim and trim compared to any currently supported edition of Windows. You will legitimately find some folks in the community who would just rather go edit a config file than have a GUI that edits it for you, and you’ll find some woodworkers who prefer to use hand planes and chisels. A hobby’s a hobby.
• “What are some habits/standards to keep my system organized and manageable?” Mainly, learn how the file system works, learn what /opt and such are for. Otherwise your skills for managing your files on WIndows should suffice.
• “Any other resources besides the Arch Wiki to be aware of?” Man pages. You can read the documentation for any command in the terminal by typing “man commandname.” For example, to learn more about the change directory command, cd, type “man cd” and it will tell you all about it. It even has its own man page, you can type “man man”. All of this is stored on your system locally, so you don’t even need an internet connection for this.
• “What do you wish you knew when you first started using Linux?” What middle click does. There’s a thing called the primary buffer which allows you to highlight and paste text simply by highlighting text, then middle clicking somewhere else. It’s separate from the Ctrl+C Ctrl+V feature. Also, what dotfiles are. Short answer is, hidden files on Unix-like systems start with a dot (.) and there’s a ton of them in your home folder. These often hold things like configuration files for applications, so backing up your entire home folder including hidden files will catch all your preferences. Plus, there are directories like .fonts where you can put TTF font files and they’ll be available to applications. It’s something you don’t often get shown during onboarding but it’s there.

bloodfart, 3 months ago

No, no, none, no, learn vim.

elxeno, 3 months ago

I’ve been using linux exclusively for about 5 years, hopped a bit for the first 1-2 years (mint, mx, lite, debian, manjaro, artix), settled on Arch. I think Mint is the best one for ppl coming from windows.

Is Wayland worth using? Especially when you consider all the issues that may come from using an NVIDIA card.

IMO no, i have a 1060, tried about 1 year ago and it had lots of issues on KDE, gnome seemed usable but it’s gnome so no, and i use LXQt so if it gets good support or if i like plasma 6 i might try again.

Does bloat actually matter or is it just a meme?

If by bloat u mean installing lots of packages, the “problems” would be disk space and longer updates, and if it’s a service it will depend on the distro, i think debian/ubuntu and derivatives will usually enable the service after install, so they will use some cpu/ram too. Shouldn’t be too much of an issue but it’s a good idea to only install what u need and remove stuff when u don’t need anymore.

What are some habits I should practice in order to keep my system organized and manageable?

Just don’t sudo install anything outside the package manager, like node/python packages or downloaded stuff (u can usually install them somewhere in $HOME)

Any other resources besides the Arch Wiki that I should be aware of?

No, whatever search engine u use should be enough.

What do you wish you knew when you first started using Linux that would have saved you a headache in the future?

Nothing i can think at the moment, i used mint in dual boot for a while, just “switched” (deleted the windows partition) when i realized i didn’t boot it for a few months, so i was already pretty comfortable with it.

Pantherina, 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

Using NVIDIA please use the image from ublue.it, the official Fedora one can work but noveau is not ready. You can install Kinoite from Fedora though and give it a try, report your experience with noveau (should work and proprietary drivers are pretty scary) and then rebase to ublue (unsigned, reboot, signed, reboot)

Wayland is worth it, Plasma 6 will come out soon and primarily target it. It just works for me, always, I have like no problem with it. Flathub flatpaks always worked because they have loose permissions.

Xorg is an insecure mess and it is not maintained.

Also, give the Plasma 6 preview a try! and report bugs. Its like 99% ready.

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Bloat: yes of course. Fedora Kinoite has none. If you install a few flatpaks, dont be scared by duplicate Libraries, they use deduplication to actually need less space.

Bloat matters as a huge LUKS drive is notably slower, but only a matter of seconds on an NVME/ any SSD. And yeah, please use LUKS, encrypting afterwards is not easy. Also use a Password that can be written in US QWERTY too, a bug in current Fedora Atomic, it doesnt use your native keyboard layout. Seems to be fixed on 40 (rawhide, Plasma 6 prerelease Version of Kinoite)

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Habits:

• install huge apps like RStudio, an IDE, a programming environment etc. in a Distrobox. If you program hardware it needs to be a root distrobox, otherwise no USB access.
• if you git clone stuff, create a “Git” folder in your home, put that there. Guides never mention that.
• if you use Appimages, compiled apps, binaries; create a “Programs” folder in your home
• use Czkawka to find duplicate files

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Resources:

• alternativeto.net
• itsfoss.com
• discussion.fedoraproject.org
• discuss.kde.org

What do you wish you knew when you first started using Linux that would have saved you a headache in the future?

• Fedora Kinoite (Ubuntu broke, stable Distros suck, …)
• use Flathub Flatpaks, they are often better

flashgnash, 3 months ago

Immutable distros are great

Wayland is nice, can suck in weird and wacky ways with Nvidia though. Only reason I’m using it is because my favourite WM is Wayland only

WitchHazel, 3 months ago

Mind sharing?

flashgnash, 3 months ago

NixOS/hyprland

possiblylinux127, 3 months ago

I would be careful using Kinoite as it hasn’t been around as long and doesn’t work in the same way as a transitional system. This means you could be on your own when it comes to issues. This could be especially problematic as most of the help online isn’t going to be related to Fedora let alone Kinoite.

I would recommend Linux Mint to anyone and I use it in a VM for a bunch of things (main system is Proxmox and Fedora). It has normal apt and you can tweak it as much or as little as you like. It is very easy to use and is suitable for a broad audience.

ILikeBoobies, 3 months ago

You might find something that works better or worse in Wayland, it’s not really a big deal

Does bloat actually matter or is it just a meme?

Both, the little things don’t matter but you can fill up your resources with bloat if you wanted.

Any habits or standards that I should abide by in order to save myself headaches in the future?

Update unless you have a reason not to

What do you wish you knew when you first started using Linux that would have saved you a headache in the future?

Sym-links

Moobythegoldensock, 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

• Wayland is the new standard and X11 is the old standard. NVIDIA support is getting better. The advantages are mainly under the hood, the most relevant for most users is in security and compatibility with newer hardware. If your distro comes with Wayland, use it. If it doesn’t, then don’t worry about it.
• Bloat’s subjective and mostly a matter of taste. Unless you’re trying to squeeze every bit of performance out of a 10 year old potato, the bloatiness of your default desktop install will not meaningfully impact your performance. Even the most bloated linux install runs lighter than Windows 10.
• Keep up to date, especially security updates. Don’t work in root unless you have to, don’t use sudo if you don’t need it, and configure permissions properly rather than 777ing everything. Be careful adding package repositories: don’t add from other distros or other versions of your distro as that can screw up dependencies. Check your package manager or flatpak before resorting downloading random files and trying to install them manually.
• Yes: linux subreddits/communities, Fedora’s own documentation and forums
• How easy it is to make a mistake that’s very hard to fix. Also, understanding what “everything is a file,” the filesystem in general, and what a desktop environment even is.

flashgnash, 3 months ago

“even the most bloated Linux install runs lighter than windows”

I raise you my Linux machine with a windows VM

Moobythegoldensock, 3 months ago

windows

There’s your problem right there.

flashgnash, 3 months ago

Unfortunately need it for the rare occasion I’m asked to something weird like work with excel macros

neidu2, 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

Wayland: I would (and do) stick to xorg for now. Wayland isnt quite at the level where it can fully replace xorg yet.

Bloat matters, but not to a worrysome extent. Most users probably won’t notice it outside of specialized customization, and I’m sure you won’t either.

Not so much on the managerial or organizational side, but I highly recommend getting used to and comfortable with the shell. Start with the easy stuff: file operations such as mv, cp, chmod and so forth, and use a text editor of your choice to edit text files. The memes would have you use vim, and while that is my preferred editor, more beginner friendly ones, such as nano, will do just fine.

Resources: I find that most of the time that I need input, either asking somewhere relevant (such as here), or looking it up on stackexchange will give me the result I’m after.

Things I wish I knew: When you can achieve what you want via the package manager, do it. Installing and removing stuff without it tends to gradually change your OS into a state where every library requirement is in conflict with some other requirement.

TMP_NKcYUEoM7kXg4qYe, 3 months ago

LearnLinuxTV is a pretty good YT channel for noobs

I recommend getting familiar with the following software:

• Quickemu (and quickgui) - super easy way to setup a Windows (or Linux or Mac) virtual machine
• Distrobox - easily run a different linux distro within your current linux distro. It’s useful for running ubuntu containers because of “PPAs” which are unofficial repositories which allow you to install some obscure software with a single command.
• Timeshift - someone else already mentioned it. I actually don’t know whether it would be a problem on an atomic distro like Kionite but I had Kubuntu break after a major update. Timeshift would have been useful at that time.

cetvrti_magi, 3 months ago

1. I never used Wayland but Xorg works really well.
2. Don’t copy terminal commands from internet if you don’t know what they do. Also, try new things just to try them. That’s how I started using many things that now make the core of my computer experience. Even if something looks scary I recommend giving it a go because in most cases it is much easier than it looks (at least when you have some experience with Linux).
3. YouTube can be a good resource at the start.
4. Switching to Linux was very smooth experience for me because I wanted to inform myself about Linux before switching just to know what I’m getting into. If you go prepared you probably won’t experience many problems.

scratchandgame, 3 months ago

Don’t copy terminal commands from internet if you don’t know what they do.

Very important. Don’t run arbitrary commands on the internet, but don’t paste sysctls and config too.

YouTube can be a good resource at the start.

Linux lacks much documentation. Man pages, tutorials from arch and gentoo wiki should be considered.

that’s my feedback