Looks like the stroke was a complication from a systemic MRSA infection, which would not be my assassination agent of choice if I was trying to kill somebody on purpose, even if I did want it to look like an accident. MRSA only kills about 1 in 4 people infected with it, and many of those are people who are already hospitalized for some other serious illness. It strikes me as a rather low-probability way to kill a healthy adult.
I really hate it when this sort of thing happens. If you read into this particular death, it looks like a tragic series of unfortunate events and not anything nefarious. The earlier whistleblower death looked truly suspicious and I don’t fault people for that one, but this one just isn’t. Now this family is going to be dealing with a conspiracy and hounded by insane people while trying to grieve their loved one. I wish people could really look into these things instead of just reacting because Boeing has been sketchy lately.
The root of the problem is that the general lawlessness and the actual proven conspiracies make everyone rightly paranoid. If the govt didn’t cause the crack epidemic, or didn’t actually try brain control experiments on their own citizens, or didn’t surveil literally everyone, this wouldn’t happen.
Sure, I’m not assigning any blame in my original comment. I agree with your comment, but I also still think we have a personal responsibility to look into these things and be critical. Conspiracy theories can be a failure of the state and of the individuals.
The thing with assigning responsibility is that it does not ever solve anything.
Assigning it to individuals actually does prevent solving issues, since if you assign individual responsibility to a systemic problem, you get to - instead of looking for a root cause - say “people should just be better”. By attributing it to some individual moral quality, you get to avoid the hard questions - like “why is everyone stupid?” or “why is everyone immoral?”, and not realize the environment in which these people live foster the stupidity or immorality, and the only way to solve it would be education or higher standards for leaders.
I agree with everything you said, genuinely. Ignoring societal factors would be foolish and expecting personal responsibility to be the deciding factor is naive. All that said, to ignore it entirely leaves you with an incomplete view as well. People have the potential to be more than our nature and circumstances dictate us to be.
To address your point directly, I don’t expect anyone to do anything. I do though believe that personal responsibility is a core element of any non-autocratic political system. I will ask for it, because my fellow citizens belong to the same government I do and I have a vested interest in it working. I’ll also be doing what I can to improve those contextual circumstances we mentioned earlier. Expect, though? No, I really don’t.
I understand your point, but “a culture of personal responsibility” will still be a societal thing. On a moral level, you can of course assign blame to individual people, but that will not solve the problem, and my point is that a lot of people use personal responsibility to distance themselves from a problem and justify why they aren’t solving it.
What I mean is that it is beneficial to think of personal responsibility when you think of your personal responsibility. You see somebody stealing public funds? You go and be the whistleblower because you are responsible for making society a better, fairer place.
The problem is when people go and see a problem as someone else’s personal responsibility. Simple example, you see a guy throw away some trash on the sidewalk. If you think it’s their personal responsibility to keep our streets clean, and you justify not picking it up after them, the trash will still be there, as long as someone doesn’t pick it up.
The point is, it’s fine to think whatever, but thoughts in themselves won’t solve problems. Thoughts are secondary to actions, and whatever thoughts you have that motivate you making the world better are good, and whatever thoughts push you into apathy, or even stir you to actively make the world worse, are bad. The notion of personal responsibility can be both.
But doesn’t your post show exactly why it would have been a good choice? Because now some random unaffiliated person on the internet is arguing that it was an accident.
It’s important to remember that Boeing isn’t JUST a plane company, but a government contractor that does a massive amount of rocket work for the armed forces.
There are more people than stock holders that have a vested interest in Boeing.
Including just about every single person who promised and/or would end up being responsible for conducting an investigation on them. Boeing is basically above the law as long as they pay the fines levyed by the courts that are overwhelmingly on their side.
The 9th circle in the Inferno was a frozen lake. Though I’d expect Weinstein and Epstein to end up on the ring dedicated to the lustful rather than down on the 9th with the traitors.
Was the situation around his suicide orchestrated to give him the best possible chance of killing himself? Maybe. Even that might be giving too much credit to the people who would have the motive to do so.
He was a guilty pedophile, he knew he was a guilty pedophile, and the easiest way out for him was by wrapping a prison bedsheet around his neck.
Give me a solution to his death simpler than he wanted to die, and the people guarding him weren’t very good at their jobs, and I’ll buy it.
Give me a solution to his death simpler than he wanted to die, and the people guarding him weren’t very good at their jobs, and I’ll buy it.
the fact that someone who isn’t supposed to be capable of committing suicide, manages to commit suicide. Is a pretty damn good argument as for why it’s not entirely up to them, especially in the scenario that they have no legal autonomy over themselves anymore.
It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that a billionaire running a pedo trafficking ring when left alone for about 23 seconds is going to immediately kill themselves.
He did not. There are lesser known photos showing him leaving the street. I think a lot of people haven’t seen those.
I’m sure the Chinese government disposed of him if they were able to identify him. But as far as I know he’s never been identified. I hope not. Brave motherfucker.
I’ve seen the pictures on Reddit, years ago. After blocking the tank for a while, he walked off the street going left. He was not run over by the tanks in that column at least.
This guy got so angry at being called out for not having been in the military (as I’m in the reserves and still a conditional pacifist by conviction) and only being able to come up with inane violence fantasies that he had to tag me in another thread.
Go read the original conversation here. Guess he had to try to make a new one, due to getting downvoted quite hard in the actual one for the admittedly silly things he said. :/
Go buff your Walmart pistols, that’ll make you feel safer.
Your refusal to read history doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
you know what? you’ve inspired me. believe it or not, i am a person who can change their mind. i’m going to play devil’s advocate here and take up the opposite position to what you propose, not because i want to prove i’m right but because you’ve taken the time to back up your argument with cited examples. i appreciate that. should we start a new thread somewhere? i’m new to lemmy so i’m not exactly sure where the right place would be. i have a lot to do today, so i won’t be able to counter you quickly.
let me just say that i’m not angry (well… i’m angry, but not at you). i recognize that we’re on the same side and i don’t want to disparage a fellow comrade. i respect the fact that you’ve had military training, and if i can prove you wrong, i hope that you would take a second look at the value you provide to the cause.
It’s gotta be the same trolls that visit every Boeing thread claiming accidents are the fault of the airport not the manufacturer. They are fucking relentless.
I actually did reread them, and I don’t believe I’m trolling. I am genuinely curious if you believe a comment here did as you claimed and if so which one? Please be specific.
But you spoke as if its already happening. in fact your post reads as if you are replying to someone? Honestly if anyone is coming off as a bot its you dude. I, of course, don’t think you are but…your post makes absolutely no sense in the current context.
Those people are just clarifying headlines that give no idea how long the plane was in service. If they’ve been in service for over a decade it stands to reason that the maintenance on the plane might have been faulty. OFC Boeing should be investigated due to the door plug blow-out, and have previously demonstrated their willingness to cut corners with the Max debacle. That doesn’t mean every incident is their direct fault, and Airbus can suffer similar incidents but not be reported on.
Er, no - because the crashes weren’t the topic. It was just very sudden-left-turn which felt bot-like. Agreed about the Boeing crashes, they’re just different from the deaths of the Boeing whistleblowers.
I was responding to someone who specifically brought up the crashes…
It’s gotta be the same trolls that visit every Boeing thread claiming accidents are the fault of the airport not the manufacturer. They are fucking relentless.
First off fuck Boeing. Second off. When a part falls off of a 30 year old plane it’s typically because the airline that owns it fucked up in the maintenance of the plane, sometimes it’s the manufacturer not stating a correct procedure, or having the stated intervals too long, but just as many aviation accidents have been caused by fuckups during maintenance.
Or sometimes manufacturers simply send a wrong manual which doesn’t apply to your aircraft at all. And it turns out you have to order one from across the ocean because the whole continent got the wrong manuals. Don’t ask how I know.
Wichita Kansas is where Spirit is. New Zealand is about as far as it gets from there. Reporters in New Zealand are just regurgitating what they read from more local sources. Being well informed requires good journalism and that requires access to sources so ya I stand by my statement to seek out more local articles
If you think a company that knowingly put 10s of thousands of people in danger with faulty planes resulting in over 300 deaths, wouldn’t kill two people for exposing said crimes? I have a bridge to nowhere to sale you.
Does anybody actually know how the second person died? It was from an hospital acquired MRSA infection. I think it’s insane if people think Boeing somehow managed that to happen.
How WOULD you give someone a MRSA infection of the lungs? Inject it into their bloodstream? Aerosolize liquid with the bacteria in it and then discretely waft it towards them in a public place maybe? That’s pretty insane though. The risk to reward just isn’t there. And besides, what’s the point of killing a whistle-blower who’s already blown their whistle, except to “send a message” I guess? And the guy died after being hospitalized for 2 weeks so if he had anything left to say he could still have done it. It’s Boeing. It’s an aerospace company with shitty, greedy executives. It’s not the freaking KGB.
So they… gave him a MRSA lung infection without him noticing? I have never once heard of attempted murder in that way.
Did you read the article? My first thought on reading the headline was “this is extremely suspicious” and most people probably stopped there and went straight to the comment section. But reading the article I see no sign that this was murder.
Welcome to Lemmy. Lots of terminally online idiots here. I was hoping this place would be like old Reddit. Turns out it’s just as bad as current Reddit without as many bots.
Well, it depends on the Threadiverse community, as it did the subreddit. I mean, /r/conspiracy probably would buy into an assassination campaign conspiracy theory, but the subreddits I subscribed to on Reddit wouldn’t.
There’s some truth to that… scrolling the Lemmyverse front page is kinda like scrolling YouTube while not signed into an account- its amazing how dumb most of YT is. It’s honestly a testament to Lemmy being a solid community that it’s even palatable to just consume it unfiltered, although there are still some garbage takes.
Two out of two? Considering how few high profile whistleblowers there are, that is much more unlikely to be due to random chance, statistically speaking.
Similar to how it’s not impossible that someone might fall out of a window and die.
But if in a certain country, important people who have crossed the leadership keep falling out of windows, … well.
That all depends on how many whistle-blower there currently are, I suppose. If there’s currently been only less than 10, is really, really, suspicious and unlikely two would die within even a year. If there’s 500? Suspicious, but not outlandish.
Was this guy high profile? I’d never heard of him. And he was in the hospital for 2 weeks before dying and nobody seemed to care then. When I read the headline, I was extremely suspicious but the cause of death is just completely incompatible with a hit job.
Not just one, but two whistleblowers in two months. And one of them said that if he dies soon, it would be a Boeing assassination a few days before he died.
well, to be clear, he said if he committed suicide, that he didn’t commit suicide. Now i dont know much about suicide because i haven’t done it. But if i were to do it, and i was being sued by a large company, i would probably say that they did it to me anyway.
Mostly just because it would be funny, but also because it be partially true, given what probably led up to the suicide itself.
Someone claiming to be a family friend said that’s what he said, after-the-fact. That part of the whole first whistleblower story is far from rock-solid.
John was also in the process of deposition for an appeal to a case he already lost in 2019. If Boeing wanted to kill him they would have before the 2019 trial.
And by the time he complained in 2017, both 787 and 737 Max that he was spilling details on had been flying for years. The FAA investigated and found a decent chunk of the issues had already been addressed. So it wasn’t even timely information by the time John spoke up.
and if i were a large multinational company trying to kill someone, i would probably do it at the most inconvenient point possible, because that would be murder, and murder would be illegal. But that’s just me.
Satire implies some humor. This is terrifying. I 100% believe this giant corporation murdered these people and other ones will try to do the same. It’s like when Russia kills someone and barely tries to provide plausible deniability. Because there’s no consequences and they’ll get away with it anyway. And because they want to send a threatening message. We are literally living in a dystopia…
Doubt it. He couldn’t do it in his first term why the fuck would he suddenly be able to make it happen the second term? He’s a pile of shit but he wouldn’t ever make it happen.
Jill “sitting-between-Putin-and-convicted-felon-and-unregistered-foreign-agent-Michael-Flynn” Stein who collected millions for a recount and then just kept it?
Because she is the candidate of the largest party representing policies you “support” like universal healthcare. You could have spent the last 4 years helping build the party, or another party, or making your own party but instead did nothing.
So despite the fact that I don’t even have the energy to walk more than half an hour, you expect me to go canvassing? Do you want to put me in a wheelchair and push me around?
No of course not, but you do comment a lot on lemmy. I’ll keep on talking to people in person we need an online presence as well, I’m trying to post in support of Jill on lemmy and reddit
Oh well then, that certainly does help both this person and america in general. Glad we cleared that up and justified your incredibly inflexible approach to telling a disabled person to “get off their lazy ass”. You’re expressing democracy, got it.
Hilarious. Every liberal uses the same logic: “I wish there was another option but we have to vote blue!” without putting any effort into supporting another party. The dude literally comments thousands of times.
Love how you try to act like I knew they were disabled when I told them that, pathetic from you.
Love how you equate commenting numbers with ability to do anything, and the reframing of my “pathetic” comment about being inflexible in your arguments once you were made aware of their disabilities as me saying you should have known from the start.
inflexible in your arguments once you were made aware of their disabilities
Not true at all, I said we need an online presence and already welcome many disabled people in our ballot efforts through calls and online outreach.
It is pathetic you tried to paint my comment as ableist when no one was aware of the poster’s situation and my statement is true. Liberals do need to get off their ass, but instead complain and vote for Dems.
I agree, and strongly believe that the most helpful way forward in this respect would be to implement ranked choice voting, which is just about as out-of-reach to most Americans as a viable third-party candidate is today.
Maybe the next try at democracy will be the one that sticks.
You absolutely can. By voting for someone who has no chance of winning. It’s purely a thing to make you feel good about yourself. And no one will know either. You could claim you voted for Cornel West but actually vote for Trump and no one will be able to say you were lying.
I’m never going to get what I want, so I vote pragmatically. And stopping the guy who literally says he’s going to be a dictator seems like a pretty fucking important thing to do.
You sound brainwashed, i presume that by “candidate that will definitely lose” you mean someone that isn’t strictly part of the red and blue party. In this case not supporting any of these and voting for someone else could indeed save lives.
No. That is not how elections have ever worked. It has never been that every candidate has an equal chance of winning. Not in ancient Athens and not today in the U.S.
Isn’t it legal now? Did the US government nullify any Boeing contracts because of the first murder? Any of the Boeing heads and their government stooges in prison?
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