bynkii,
@bynkii@mastodon.social avatar

A thing that just hit me:

Apple’s dev docs are fundamentally hostile to new users. They only work if you already know how to use the hell out of Swift(UI)/ObjC.

Look at the docs for a SwiftUI button: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/swiftui/button/

As someone who is not an experienced swift(ui) dev, most of that page is useless to me. I give no shits about initing a button, that’s what SwiftUI is for. What I need are the properties of a button and the built-in methods. Which are obscure at best & mostly nonexistent.

HoffmanLabs,

@bynkii Yep.

Not just for learning Swift and Objective C, but also for learning Xcode and other tools, and for learning how to design and imple,ent and debug apps for macOS, or iOS/iPadOS, etc.

Just knowing how and where to find stuff, for that matter.

There’s a whole layer of development-related doc just… missing.

bynkii,
@bynkii@mastodon.social avatar

@HoffmanLabs it’s so stupid.

oldmankris,
@oldmankris@mastodon.xyz avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • bynkii,
    @bynkii@mastodon.social avatar

    @oldmankris as someone who was trying to learn in the 80s and 90s, it was okay. There’s always been a machismo strain at Apple WRT to docs for beginners.

    oldmankris,
    @oldmankris@mastodon.xyz avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • bynkii,
    @bynkii@mastodon.social avatar

    @oldmankris I guess, although from what I’ve heard from friends who work there, the “all you need are header files” nonsense is just as strong internally as externally.

    There is no lack of ego at Apple.

    bynkii,
    @bynkii@mastodon.social avatar

    Now, compare this to the docs for a C#/WPF button: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.windows.controls.button?view=windowsdesktop-7.0

    First of all, the code to init a button is way simpler. Like it was designed to be easy.

    Secondly, every property for that button is listed with explanations & where that property is inherited from.

    Built-in methods? Listed and explained.

    Events? Same.

    And even short sample code for XAML & C# so I get an idea of how to do stuff with a button.

    bynkii,
    @bynkii@mastodon.social avatar

    I’m no better at C# than I am at Swift, but I can tell you whose docs help me learn what I need to know faster.

    Almost like MS takes learning more seriously. Yeah, swift playgrounds are cool, but what’s cooler is telling us how shit works without begging in the forums and hoping @justkwin sees the post.

    I love Quinn to death, but he’s gonna retire one day, and he’s like most of DTS. That’s a lot for one person, even as amazing as he is.

    bynkii,
    @bynkii@mastodon.social avatar

    Good docs are neither hard nor overly expensive, but they are tedious and the work never ends.

    The only difference between MS and Apple is MS genuinely wants people to code on their platforms and they do the work to show this.

    Apple makes a lot of noise about it, but you better buy that sub to hacking with Swift, because @twostraws will absolutely do more to help you as a beginner than any amount of money thrown at Apple will.

    bynkii,
    @bynkii@mastodon.social avatar

    This is of course fixable, but Apple needs to stop being so deadass headass about it and stop with the “real devs don’t need docs” shit.

    Everyone needs good docs, and I should not have to prove my fucking worth to a company I am paying good money to.

    🖕that 💩

    bynkii,
    @bynkii@mastodon.social avatar

    Addendum: good docs help experienced devs too. Look at what someone with skills like @chockenberry has to figure out on his own or basically begging for help.

    This is inexcusable.

    thedorismith,
    @thedorismith@mastodon.social avatar

    @bynkii Writing Beginner's Mind-style tech documentation is my superpower.

    Unfortunately, it's a superpower no one's been willing to pay for since 2015 or so.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin

    bynkii,
    @bynkii@mastodon.social avatar

    @thedorismith it’s not even stuff that needs to be aimed at beginners. It’s just writing clear, complete docs which help everyone regardless of experience level and not treating it like some kind of macho bullshit test.

    thedorismith,
    @thedorismith@mastodon.social avatar

    @bynkii I'm not even talking about docs solely for beginners — just a style that doesn't make any assumptions about what the reader already knows.

    bynkii,
    @bynkii@mastodon.social avatar

    @thedorismith yup. It doesn’t even take some bizarrely great effort. Ya just gotta give a shit

    kevin,
    @kevin@elephant.crime.group avatar

    @bynkii the WPF stuff is simple enough I've written a bunch of GUI functions for PowerShell.

    bynkii,
    @bynkii@mastodon.social avatar

    @kevin yep. And moving from PS to C# is really easy.

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