fraying, (edited )
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

This is fucking unhinged.

Corporations and politicians are ruining the planet, not people who take photos of their cats.

This is the same kind of blame shifting corporations use to distract from their own culpability. Look up the history of the litterbug campaign. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2006/05/origins-anti-litter-campaigns/

Scolding people for using digital tools isn't gonna save the planet. Electing better politicians that create laws to rein in corporations might.

fraying, (edited )
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

Blaming individuals for communal problems is idiotic. It only turns people away from your cause. We've been trying to shame individuals into saving the planet for like 50 years with things like litterbug campaigns and it hasn't worked yet. Why? Because it's not an individual problem! The sources of the problem are corporate and political and that's where they must be solved. Shaming people just makes them feel angry and defeated, and angry defeated people don't make good political choices.

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

I don't usually do call out posts, but this one really pissed me off.

It's so self-defeating. And so elitist. "Look at all this digital garbage," he posts, somehow exempting his own digital garbage. "If only people would stop with their terrible cat pics, we could surely save the planet."

Fuck entirely off with that shit.

linnefaulk,

@fraying Because global warming wasn’t an issue before the web became popular. 🙄

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

@linnefaulk right. And 90% of books weren’t crap.

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

And one more thing: Maybe 90% of digital data is crap. 90% OF EVERYTHING IS CRAP. There's even a law about it!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law

Delete half the internet and the remaining half will still be 90% crap. What's the alternative? Who do we put in charge of deciding what's valuable enough to be stored? You, Gerry?

Off ya fuck.

drs1969,
@drs1969@mstdn.social avatar

@fraying I just wanted to commend you for your splendid rant there. And for the point you make.

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

@drs1969 why thank you

rateexportpilot,

@fraying and once you see this in one place, you see it everywhere. You go to the supermarket and everything is triple wrapped in plastic, but the onus is placed on the consumer to reduce plastic waste by going without a bag to carry it all in.

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

@rateexportpilot Bingo.

It's not an individual problem and never has been.

rateexportpilot,

@fraying I see this dumb thread has now devolved into the simply-making-shit-up phase.

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

@rateexportpilot it’s Jordan Petersonesque in its confident emptiness.

peterbutler,
@peterbutler@mas.to avatar

@fraying I struggle with this idea a lot

I get what you’re saying, and I agree in general, but …

We’re still the ones buying water in plastic bottles. We’re still the ones driving our car for a trip less than a mile

Maybe that’s because our local water quality stinks and our streets are poorly designed for walking, but that’s on us to fix, no?

To say it’s all corporate and political makes me feel hopeless about fixing anything ourselves

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

@peterbutler We CAN fix things ourselves, but not with individual buying choices. We have to vote for politicians that share our values. And if there aren't any, then we need to become them.

There's no way out of this that isn't getting involved in politics. We can't consume our way out of it. Limiting everyone to consumers is how we got into this mess - it won't get us out.

braveamateur,
@braveamateur@mas.to avatar

@fraying This reminds me of this article I read a while ago about people's usage of tech and social media:

"You could say that it's my responsibility to exert self-control when it comes to digital usage, but that's not acknowledging that there's a thousand people on the other side of the screen whose job is to break down whatever responsibility I can maintain"

https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/501122/

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

@braveamateur Nah. Tristan Harris is another empty windbag.

MichaelTBacon,
@MichaelTBacon@social.coop avatar

@fraying

Yes, and the drinking water thing is particularly silly. The overwhelming majority of water, even treated, potable water, never goes into our bodies. We use far more for industry, agriculture, lawns, bathing, dishes, and so forth than we drink.

That data centers are starting to use a little is not nearly as shocking as this person is trying to make out.

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

@MichaelTBacon It's like a knockoff Gladwell. "Here are two facts, surely they are related."

cpttrashpanda,

@fraying Hi. Cloud tech is my profession.

That's.. not how it works.

Gerry McG is a dumbass.

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

@cpttrashpanda smart bunny

f800gecko,
@f800gecko@mastodon.online avatar

@fraying

The truth is we’re all in it together. Corporations are sleaze but they design their crap for us and we keep buying it. Cheap, amusing garbage we’ll pay for. Social programs, health and education we won’t. By we I mean most people. I blame marketing more than any other single force: the route by which corporations best pander to and reward selfishness, narcissism and greed.

Even here in this thread no individual wants to own any of it. We want anyone else to solve the problem but us.

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

@f800gecko the whole point I’m making is that it isn’t a problem that can be solved by individuals.

f800gecko,
@f800gecko@mastodon.online avatar

@fraying

So long as we fail to accept our own culpability and refuse to change our own outlooks and behaviour, I agree.

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

@f800gecko maybe you should read that article about the litterbug campaign I linked to.

f800gecko,
@f800gecko@mastodon.online avatar

@fraying

It’s a good piece. A contemporary analogue is the banning of plastic bags by grocery stores from which one can only buy stuff wrapped in blankets of single-use plastic. But marketing has trained us to enjoy and appreciate the ‘convenience’ - so much so that we as individuals refuse to give up that convenience so long as our own little neighbourhood worlds remain relatively unaffected by our choices. We have a huge role in all this: we simply refuse to see or accept it.

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

@f800gecko you’re making a lot of assumptions about “we” that I do not.

f800gecko,
@f800gecko@mastodon.online avatar

@fraying

I’m only going on what I see all around me. The people who want and are ready to accept the consequences of change - like you and me perhaps - are vastly outnumbered.

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

@f800gecko nah - the idiots are just louder. In my experience, most people want to help, they just have no idea how.

The fascists want you to despair - have hope just to spite them.

kroltanz,

@fraying his posts take up valuable disk space. He should practice what he preaches and log off the Internet forever.

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

@kroltanz Clearly the most ethical solution.

Judeet88,

@fraying Massive amounts of water, a scarce resource, is needed by data centres...it IS important.

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

@Judeet88 Sure. Know what uses the most water? Agriculture. The amount of water used for data is miniscule.

But even if it wasn't, the solution isn't shaming people for taking photos of their cats.

paulkruczynski,

@fraying yes, and I'd also advocate for administering a mild electric shock to the person who decides to put auto-playing videos on a site, that then follow you as a scroll. Page bloat won't help us.

fraying,
@fraying@xoxo.zone avatar

@paulkruczynski I think you missed my point

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