I know I am a broken record, but since it keeps happening I have to say it again: you should complain about the state of a11y on Linux, but don’t make up shit on the spot when you trauma dump and slam the door. You’re just making it hard on existing contributors, who will just give up; and on newcomers that now have to unlearn your disinformation campaign in order to work on the right things
@ebassi what post are you refering to? I recommend you reference the poster as well, they have the right to defend themselves, those are pretty nasty accusations imo. What did they invent? also, yes, I read the rest of this thread, but I can only reply to this post for misterious reasons, so that's why I know an accessibility focused commity has been brought up, I do agree that would be a nice thing to have. Also, we've been either ignored or mostly marginalised for a long time in the foss community when we raise concerns regarding accessibility, people aren't thinking about us when they design things at all and such, so agreeing with the previous posters, some level of rage is justified.
@bgtlover@ebassi Refering to my post about the state of the GUI, actually. Clearly, if the gnome folks think gnome and gtk 4 apps have no usability and accessibility, I dare them to use it for one week with orca and only that. Then come tell me again that I'm talking bullshit. This post was not a trauma dump. This post is my reality. And this kind of response to it is one more reason I left in the first place.
@xogium@ebassi ahh, yeah, that one. While some things may have not been entirely accurate, your rage echos the one of most users using gnome desktop probably, that's why I remain on gnome2 for the time being. But also, @kde has been dedicated to making their desktop more accessible for a while, so, perhaps try that one and see how it goes? Sure, there's a lot to still be done on that front, but like, they went from barely nothing, to usable if you have a bit of patience with the settings app, which is absolutely horendous accessibility wise btw. I mean, if that ain't progress, dk what is.
@bgtlover My post was a point on the state of affaire with gtk and qt, and wayland vs xorg mainly because I don't even use a desktop, think more wm. Yet, gtk apps are many, and their accessibility issues are effectively making it next to impossible to use the GUI. Trying to attack me while passing as the victim was both uncalled for and pointless, given I was not raging. I was stating things, a bit like in the accessibility vs audio thread. The only thing is, now I'm very much pissed off.
While things can and should be better, I can assure you that nobody is purposely making them worse, or ignoring the problems. There are very little technical blockers, and while a bunch of existing solutions are problematic, a11y is not incompatible with security
Most of the problems are (unsurprisingly) social: resources and funding. It’s easy to blame the people doing the work when you feel personally constrained in your ability to use a device; but it’s pointless, and just counterproductive, because you’re blaming the few people that care
@ebassi I think some rage and worry is justified when one of the core developers of the software argues that accessibility isn't worth working on frequently.
@brainblasted as I said: raging and complaining is fine. The line that should not be crossed is making shit up to appease your need for finding bad guys. Somebody’s opinion is also not at the same level of other people’s actions, and it should not be used to cast aspersions on a whole project.
@ebassi@brainblasted that's just victim blaming on your part. A11y in GNOME is so bad rn, that even I have issues with plain keyboard navigation. When implementing things, I have to wait for the Design team to approve, yet there's no approval based on accessibility. There is nothing wrong with that someone is so mad at this bs that they go too far and make things up. It's a natural consequence of rage, and you can't expect it not to happen. If you don't want it to happen — solve the problem.
@doctormo@brainblasted the accessibility community has plenty of people with opinions, and very few people with actual contributions. We’re missing people building the thing, not arguing about what other people should or should not do.
it also doesn't help that the fact that the accessibility community doesn't have many people with contributions is because they can't contribute, at least code-wise.
You can't reasonably expect a visually impaired person to rework all of a11y so that the screen reader works properly. All they can say is "this experience is horrible, how do I even use this?" and leave.
And, without working with those people, you can't make an experience that works for them. Everyone helps. You're able to code it so that it works, and they can verify that it works how they need it to. If they say it doesn't work, then it doesn't work.
I may be misinterpreting some stuff, but I hope what I'm trying to say is there.
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