claude_cahun,

References to purity when discussing voting (as in, "leftists need to stop their purity seeking and vote Biden") just read as genocide denial and apologia to me at this point. Perhaps you think that it is strategically necessary to hold your nose and vote for Biden. But saying that people who don't agree with you on the strategic necessity of voting for a genocide enabler are seeking purity is such an obvious distortion of reality that a person might start to wonder if you actually are holding your nose. Maybe he smells just fine to you.

People are complicated, but I don't think a person can understand and feel even a portion of the impact of Biden's continued material support for Israel and say that people who won't vote for him are seeking purity. Purity. The word choice itself is cruel. In my opinion, personally.

claude_cahun,

The adults-in-the-room tone doesn't help either, with the condescension and smugness, all the endless metaphors about shit sandwiches and lesser evils as though the problem with the non-voter is that they never learned to compare things. But I'm really starting to have an emotional reaction to "purity" in these contexts, it's getting to me tbh. Part of it is the way it refuses to even glance at the severity of the problems with Biden, the way that so many of us (not me, but you know) already held their noses in 2020 and 2016 and so on. He got more votes in 2020 than literally any other U.S. presidential candidate ever and still it's the fault of the voters if things get worse, which of course they will.

It's genuinely really upsetting as well to see (not unoften non-lgbtq) people imagining the horrific treatment of lgbtq people in the fascist future we are inviting by refusing to vote for a genocide denialist funneling money to a war machine. It bums me the fuck out to see people talking about how we're all going to be put in camps or killed and it'll be our fault for not voting right. Because what lgbtq people need right now is to be told repeatedly that we're doomed if a republican wins the white house ever again, which of course they will, sooner rather than later. Meanwhile I look at these losers' accounts and some of them are spending their days talking about code and movies and other bullshit. Excuse me? Hello? According to you it's a 50/50 chance that me and all my friends and loved ones will be the target of fascist violence directed by the new Trump regime this time next year, and you're sitting around chit chatting? Not cool! It's not cool to threaten people like that when you obviously don't think the issue is all that pressing.

I'm just frustrated I guess and it's not going to get better so I ought to just mute stuff and be done with it. I know they're out there though and it pisses me off.

dragora,

@claude_cahun In fairness, I do think society has done a really effective job of conditioning people into believing that the only way they can take action or effect change is to vote and, maybe, if you're really enthusiastic, volunteer for a campaign. That's obviously wrong, but my road to learning otherwise was a long one. I remember talking with my mom a couple years ago about an election with the prospect of something horrible happening and she was like "All we can do is hope," and I was like "Well, actually..."

That doesn't make it any less frustrating or infuriating, mind you, but one of the big political organizing tasks is convincing people that they have power if they want it and giving them a convenient path into learning how to use that power. A lot of the K-Hive and other vote scolds are too far gone, admittedly, but I think there's a population that can be reached if we can figure out how.

skuppr,

@claude_cahun oh my god it feels so good to hear someone voice my growing hatred for this whole "perfect is the enemy of the good" "you're demanding ideological purity" crowd better than/before I could, thank you so much for this

pkw,
@pkw@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@skuppr @claude_cahun Reading your view has distilled mine some.

The adults-in-the-room are missing the basically pshchology of nihilism. If the choices are so bad. Then people start having reactions like "fuck it let it burn".
(I am not promoting that, and it annoys me I have to clarify that, but visceral reactions are relevant.)

I'm afraid to mention nihilism, because it implies I'm promoting it, and I am not. I am just saying people react differently as their despair levels ramp up.

ErisCaffee,
@ErisCaffee@masto.ai avatar

@claude_cahun

As a transgender lesbian I want to point out that you are chosing to sacrifice LGBT people in America. You are simply picking a different genocide.

dragora,

@ErisCaffee @claude_cahun As a bisexual trans woman, comparing what's happening to us in the US to what's happening in Palestine right now is incredibly fucked. Show some self-awareness.

ErisCaffee,
@ErisCaffee@masto.ai avatar

@dragora @claude_cahun

What's happening in Gaza IS a genocide and it absolutely needs to stop. But implying that you are OK with having Trump and the Republicans take over America just to send a message is also incredibly fucked.

dragora,

@ErisCaffee @claude_cahun I mean, I'm actually going to vote for Biden, as much as I'm not going to like it, and I've been doing as much as I can to help fight the anti trans bullshit being pushed in my state. Scolding people because they're disgusted by the actions of the current administration (which include doing sweet fuck-all for trans folks) just papers over the existing failures of Democrats, which are innumerable at this point.

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