A self sustaining, interconnected community, proposal written by ChatGPT

Imagine a visionary building at the heart of a self-sustaining community—an architectural marvel that embodies the principles of sustainability, interdependence, and holistic living. This remarkable structure serves as a hub where all essential projects seamlessly come together, forming an interconnected and interdependent system.

At its core, this building incorporates an innovative vertical farming system. Towering gardens thrive within its walls, utilizing advanced hydroponics and vertical farming techniques to produce a wide array of organic fruits, vegetables, and herbs. Natural light floods the space, supplemented by energy-efficient LED lighting that mimics the sun’s spectrum. The building’s design optimizes air circulation, temperature control, and humidity, creating an ideal environment for abundant and sustainable food production.

Water flows throughout the building, facilitating various essential processes. A state-of-the-art rainwater harvesting system collects and channels rainwater, directing it to purification and filtration systems. These systems provide clean, potable water for the community’s consumption, as well as irrigation for the vertical gardens and other water-dependent projects within the building.

Renewable energy is harnessed through a combination of solar panels adorning the building’s exterior and wind turbines gracefully integrated into its structure. These energy sources power the building’s operations, including the vertical farming systems, lighting, water purification systems, and other electrical needs. Excess energy generated can be stored in efficient battery systems or distributed to other buildings within the community.

Waste management is ingeniously integrated into the building’s design. Organic waste from the vertical gardens and community kitchens is processed through innovative anaerobic digestion systems, producing biogas that is used to fuel on-site energy generation. The resulting nutrient-rich compost is then utilized to nourish the gardens, closing the loop of resource utilization and minimizing waste.

Within this multifunctional building, community members have access to educational spaces and workshops where they can learn about sustainable practices, permaculture, renewable energy technologies, and other essential skills. The building serves as a hub for knowledge exchange, fostering a culture of continuous learning and empowerment.

The community’s healthcare needs are met through a health and wellness center located within the building. Here, residents have access to comprehensive healthcare services, from preventive care and consultations to alternative therapies and wellness programs. The center incorporates sustainable design elements such as natural lighting, green spaces, and eco-friendly materials, promoting a holistic approach to well-being.

The building also houses a vibrant marketplace that showcases locally produced goods and services. Community members can exchange their products, fostering a resilient local economy and reducing reliance on external sources. The marketplace encourages sustainable practices, with a focus on eco-friendly and fair-trade products.

Through its interconnected systems, this remarkable building serves as a living embodiment of self-sufficiency, sustainability, and community resilience. It fosters a deep sense of interdependence among its occupants, who understand that their individual actions contribute to the overall well-being and sustainability of the community as a whole. This architectural masterpiece inspires and empowers its inhabitants to live in harmony with nature, forging a brighter and more sustainable future.

The structure of this visionary building draws inspiration from Earthship principles, emphasizing sustainable, natural, and recycled materials. It harmoniously combines the concept of an Earthship with innovative design elements, creating a unique and environmentally conscious structure.

The building’s walls are constructed using rammed earth or compressed earth blocks, utilizing the surrounding soil and natural resources abundantly available in the area. These materials provide excellent thermal mass properties, helping regulate indoor temperatures by absorbing and releasing heat slowly.

Recycled materials play a significant role in the construction process. Discarded tires, filled with compacted earth, form the foundation walls, providing stability and insulation. These repurposed tires not only reduce waste but also serve as an effective barrier against temperature fluctuations.

Large south-facing windows, a defining feature of Earthship design, allow ample natural light to flood the interior, reducing the need for artificial lighting. These windows are made from double or triple-pane glass, providing insulation while maximizing solar gain in colder climates.

To complete the building envelope, a greenhouse or sunspace is integrated into the structure. This space acts as a thermal buffer, capturing solar heat during the day and releasing it into the building at night. The greenhouse also serves as a nurturing environment for plants, further enhancing the building’s self-sustaining capabilities.

The roof of the building is designed to harness rainwater through a carefully planned catchment system. This water is then stored in large cisterns, providing a sustainable water source for the building’s various needs, including irrigation and household use. The building’s architecture incorporates efficient water filtration and purification systems to ensure a safe and potable water supply.

In line with Earthship principles, the building promotes off-grid living by utilizing renewable energy sources. Photovoltaic solar panels are integrated into the roof or mounted on nearby structures, capturing solar energy to power the building’s electrical needs. Wind turbines may also be installed to harness the power of the wind and supplement the energy supply.

Inside the building, natural and non-toxic materials are used for finishes and furnishings. Sustainable and reclaimed wood, bamboo, cork, or recycled materials are employed for flooring, cabinetry, and furniture, promoting a healthy and eco-friendly living environment.

The construction process itself is designed to minimize waste and environmental impact. The building’s design allows for efficient use of materials, reducing construction waste. Local and salvaged materials are prioritized, reducing transportation-related carbon emissions. Techniques such as rainwater harvesting during construction can also be implemented to further enhance sustainability.

By combining Earthship principles with innovative design elements, this building exemplifies a sustainable and environmentally conscious approach to construction. It showcases the beauty and versatility of natural and recycled materials while providing a harmonious living space that embodies the principles of self-sufficiency, sustainability, and interdependence with the natural world.

tinycarnivoroussheep,
@tinycarnivoroussheep@possumpat.io avatar

Maybe it’s just 'cause I have a useless literature degree, but reading AI text feels uncanny-valley. Factual impossibilities aside, it does not flow like how amateur or bad writers write, let alone good writing.

TrismegistusMx,

It does feel like an overly formalized speech, but I’ve always chosen to judge ideas on their merits rather than their presentation.

StringTheory,

Research the various failed attempts at creating utopias through-out history. Apply what you learn about the failures to what ChatGPT gives you - use your knowledge to edit the AI product.

If historical research feels like too much drudgery, read the works of Ursula le Guin (fiction). She has a multitude of novels and short stories that examine all aspects of the human desire to create various forms of utopia and the results. She did the research for you, and teaches you what she learned through stories.

TrismegistusMx,

I’ve read at least 4 of her books, and I am well aware of the problems that we face. There are extensive posts on the community I linked addressing how to overcome roadblocks to a successful cooperative society.

perestroika,

…and that is why Chat cannot be trusted to build houses. It hallucinates:

Exhibit A:

At its core, this building incorporates an innovative vertical farming system. Towering gardens thrive within its walls,

Exhibit B:

The building’s walls are constructed using rammed earth or compressed earth blocks, utilizing the surrounding soil and natural resources abundantly available in the area.

One can go vertical, or one can go rammed earth. One does not go vertical with rammed earth. :) And wind turbines attached to building structure are a nuisance. An efficient turbine needs to be clear of obstacles.

Beyond that, it has done a good job. The write-up was streamlined with my cultural sensibilities, before it collided head on with my sense of engineering. :)

Natanael,

There are turbines attached to buildings but they’re generally very different types, like smaller helix blades (spirals).

TrismegistusMx,

A: The vertical farms don’t need to be load bearing. They can be created with bamboo, wood, masonry, glass, plastic, or other novel materials and lit with LED grow lights.

B: Using fibers or metal frames can add strength to compressed Earth. You’re also splitting hairs, if one technique doesn’t work then we can try others. There are new wind generators that are basically stiff, hair-like balloons attached to a mechanism that collects the energy harvested when the wind causes them to vibrate. There are countless solutions. Nobody is advocating for AI to do all of the thinking.

perestroika, (edited )

I am splitting a hair, but the goal is pointing out - Chat is nice at producing text and searching for information, but unreliable at actually evaluating if something would work. Unless you’re extremely good at asking, it will spew proposals that won’t work.

P.S.

As for non-rotating wind generators, yep, I’ve read about them. They aren’t efficient. In the equations determining performance, there is a term named “swept area”. For a non-rotating generator, swept area is the surface of its profile viewed from upwind/downwind. For a rotor, swept area is the surface of the circle reached by blades. The difference is huge.

TrismegistusMx,

You could be proposing solution, instead of having me listen to your gripes.

perestroika,

The solution is obvious: wind energy can be collected outside a building, on an empty field, or at sea for maximum emptiness. Which is what people already do.

instead of having me listen to your gripes

Not my preferred way of dealing with criticism. You wrote a proposal (well, you let Chat write a proposal and presented it). I read it through, and considered if it was OK. I found parts that weren’t and said so. If you don’t want to listen to that, why did you post?

TrismegistusMx,

I’m trying to orient you to the way your initial reaction is counter productive. You’re walking through a garden with a weedwacker, smacking down any idea that doesn’t meet your standard. Orient yourself to the “Yes, and…,” mindset. If you respond to a proposal, ensure that your input is constructive. It’s fine to express your doubts, but if that’s all you do then you’re stopping momentum and interfering with constructive action. Constructive dialogue is a core precept of a movement that I’m working on. It’s necessary to undermine Capitalist programming even in the way we interact with each other. Competition in the realm of thought and ideology supports the hierarchy of power that keeps us oppressed.

slrpnk.net/c/murmuration

perestroika,

If Chat gave me a broken answer, I would appreciate if someone said “hey, look - it’s broken here”.

TrismegistusMx,

The answer isn’t broken. Your assumptions about the limitations of the project are. For some reason you’re locked into the idea that we brainlessly follow the first generated response, when it’s clearly an outline of suggestions. You’ve also derailed the conversation so we can talk about your naysaying instead of any possible resolution to the problems you think you see.

JacobCoffinWrites,
@JacobCoffinWrites@slrpnk.net avatar

Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but reading over this, it seems like they did offer a solution - using a proven wind power format nearby but not attached to the same building.

TrismegistusMx,

I had to drag a solution out of them. In the process, I hoped to educate them on the value of a more constructive way of communicating.

burgersc12,

This is literally my dream!

GreenMario,

One of those guys in the top pic, dreams of being everyone’s ruler.

Every time.

We need to squash ambitious people before they start rolling Charisma checks, cuz humanity is weak AF vs fancy talking assholes.

TrismegistusMx,

I’m working on a project that I hope will help, a non-hierarchical, volunteer society that would simply move away from people who start trying to run the show.

slrpnk.net/c/murmuration

Deceptichum,
Deceptichum avatar

That sounds absolutely useless in the real world.

People can’t just up and move their entire life every time some shit heel tries to exert some authority.

bitsplease,

Also it requires those people to want to leave. The whole problem with populist fascists is that they’re good at winning purple over

TrismegistusMx,

Everybody wants out, they just disagree about the way to the exit because the current system has them confounded.

bitsplease,

I don’t agree, the MAGA crowd certainly doesn’t want out - if anything, they want everyone else to leave. And so by leaving you’d be giving the fascists a clear field

TrismegistusMx,

They think the way out of their suffering is to kill the outliers. They still want out. They just suffer for different reasons, born from their narcissistic beliefs.

bitsplease,

even if that were true, you still don’t present a way to actually solve the problem. Say a charismatic person arose from within your society, and without trying to excersize any actual authority, goes about winning the hearts and minds (and most importantly loyalty) of the others in the society. Not in the way of an actual “leader” persay, but just in a “They’re everyone’s best friend and confident” kind of way.

Now once they have a following within your society, they start to excersize pressures and influences slowly to change things they way they want. After-all, your society would have to allow changes, or else it would risk stagnating over time, or being unequipped to deal with changing circumstances, then when people get used to they’re influence, and are convinced by this charismatic leader that they really have all their best interests at heart, and that they know the best way forward - they makes a power grab.

Literally all of human history says that this is not only possible - but guaranteed - and yes, people are free to leave after that, but he’s already won over a huge chunk of the society, and they now want to stay - the rest will basically be forced to start a new group from scratch. Many won’t want to leave all their friends and family behind over what are basically just political differences (again - see all of human history for examples), so a large chunk of the people who aren’t actually won over by the charismatic leader will also choose to stay. So a relatively tiny minority is now free to choose to either peel off and begin recruiting and striving to find enough members to create a viable collective once again - or (far more likely IMO) they just break up and go their own seperate ways, wondering what went wrong with their dreams of utopia.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a noble ambition, but it runs straight into all the same problems that most plans of this sort do - which is that humans are humans. Some of us just can’t stand to not try to own everything, and most of us are deeply susceptible to charismatic leaders. Again, that’s not my opinion, that’s all of human history.

And before you say “Well, we’d have left well before he got so much influence” - are you planning to leave every time someone is good at making friends? Everytime someone convinces their friends over to their own viewpoint? Who gets to decide what constitutes a threat? If the answer is “every individual” than how could the society help but be constantly splitting apart into smaller and smaller pieces as they cut off more and more of the group. And what if the charismatic leader just goes with you? Do your members have the authority to detain them? And what about their friends? Are they expected to just abandon their friend because they’re too friendly, and that’s suspicious?

Sorry, but I just don’t buy it as a viable strategy. Seems like the kind of thing that sounds great on paper, but would collapse within a few years at best

TrismegistusMx,

I know you haven’t read any of the material on the page because your concerns have been addressed already.

bitsplease,

I did in fact read them, I just don’t agree that it’s actually addressed beyond vague handwaves like “we’ll be vigilant”

TrismegistusMx,

So you didn’t read them.


<span style="color:#323232;">https://slrpnk.net/post/1210220 - The Project Murmuration Philosophy
</span><span style="color:#323232;">https://slrpnk.net/post/1292188 - Communicating with bad faith actors and the willfully ignorant
</span><span style="color:#323232;">https://slrpnk.net/post/1416416 - Open Secrecy, Determining Intentions, and The Hidden Listener
</span><span style="color:#323232;">https://slrpnk.net/post/1225058 - Project Accomplishment and Conflict Resolution
</span>

The short answer is that the project does nothing to prevent the rise of authority. Individual Starlings are all authorities unto themselves and they decide when to cooperate and when to change directions to align with other Starlings who share their vision of what is best for the whole.

bitsplease,

I have to say - few things are more frustrating in online discourse then when someone just keeps accusing you of having not done your research instead of answering the question. I’ve read your posts, and I just re-read them for the sake of being sure I didn’t miss anything, and I can say with certainty that having done so, nothing in any of those posts addresses my concern. So I’ll ask you, as politely as I can, to please refrain from accusing me of having not read your material. If I misunderstood your material, or missed some key aspect of it, then we can certainly discuss that - but I have read the damn material, so please stop repeating your accusation that i haven’t.

Now that that’s out of the way, onto the actual subject. All you talk about within your posts are bad actors from outside the organization and how to protect against them, I don’t see any stipulations about dealing with bad actors who are themselves deeply rooted within the community itself from usurping the goals of the community,except for the super vague and unhelpful “They remain alert for signs of emerging hierarchies within the organization, as the project aims to prevent oppressive power structure.” - which is basically just saying “it won’t happen because we won’t let it”. Your “short answer” isn’t anything but happy sounding words. Relying on individuals to resist the temptations of charismatic “leaders” just doesn’t work (source: all of human history), it’s like saying “our solution to solving world hunger is to just rely on individuals to find the food they need from ethical sources”.

Ultimately what you’ve described just sounds like a avian themed rebranding of anarcho-communism. There have been countless attempts all throughout history of creating the type of society you describe. Without exception every single one has failed, usually quite quickly. It’s a noble goal - certainly, but it’s inherently fragile as it relies on every single member of it’s society being selfless, long-sighted, intelligent (emotionally as way as intellectually), and impervious to populism. Like I say, best of luck to you and your good intentions, but nothing you’ve presented here makes me think it stands out beyond any of the previous.

Also - related but not totally on-topic advice. If your goal is to build a whole new society, you really need to do a bit of work on your people skills. Every comment you’ve made in this thread in response to any criticism whatsover is filled with scorn and not a small amount of condescension, even when they’re persenting valid criticism from a purely objective standpoint (this example stands out especially as an example of this behavior). You’re proposing something radical, you’re going to be presented with countless objections and “gripes” about the details of your plan - and not every person who points out a flaw in your plans is going to have a solution. Calling their valid criticism “gripes”, or accusing them of “not having read the material” if they disagree with your philosophy will not only not win people to your cause, it will make them want to disagree with you.

Be more open to criticism. Accept that there may be flaws you didn’t think of in your plans. Hell, if this community is as non-hierarchical as you claim - you don’t actually have any ownership or authority as to how it’s run in the first place, so I don’t know why you care if people disagree about your specific vision of how it should work. Isn’t the “community” supposed to decide? Instead it sounds an awful lot like you telling the community how they’re supposed to live. Sounds awfully hierarchical to me.

TrismegistusMx,

Whether you don’t understand or you didn’t read the texts, it looks the same on this end. You’re offering critiques that have already been answered and getting mad at me for telling you that you have all of this information already. What makes you think any of these posts are talking about threats that can only come from outside the organization? These guides are for each individual to determine who to make alliances with. Maybe it’s the whole “Decentralized” thing that has you confused. Each individual is responsible for their own borders and their own actions. The guides even discuss cooperative and creative thought processes within the individual, so that one isn’t fooled by charismatic individuals asking them to give up their power.

Your belief that I need to work on my people skills comes from your misconception of this conversation. I’m not trying to convince you. You have already committed yourself to ignorance. I’m speaking to the third party readers. I’m open to criticism, as soon as you demonstrate any understanding of this project. Until then, I’m not dealing with criticism. I’m parrying your ignorance.

JacobCoffinWrites,
@JacobCoffinWrites@slrpnk.net avatar

I know this won’t convince you, but I’m a third party reader who skimmed your posts when they first came up and made a note to go back and read them carefully because they sounded like the Doctrow book Walkaway and I liked that one a lot. Reading these interactions has convinced me not to do so. I think you’re going to struggle with outreach if you can’t explain aspects of your system without assigning a reading list, and if you accuse everyone who has a concern of acting in bad faith. For what it’s worth, I do wish you luck with it.

TrismegistusMx,

How would you suggest I respond differently? I have only corrected willful misrepresentations. Interesting that you critique me for “assigning reading lists” when both of your posts have been about a book you want us to read. My reading lists are a few paragraphs on a site where we’re actively conversing.

JacobCoffinWrites,
@JacobCoffinWrites@slrpnk.net avatar

You’re proposing a new (ish?) structure of human society, people are going to ask questions about how it will work. You have millions to billions of them to convince, and at this stage, you’re the only one doing the outreach. You may feel that their questions are obvious but you’ll still need a succinct answer and to get used to having the same conversation over and over again.

And when your system doesn’t have a solution yet, as it sounds like from the above conversation regarding knowledgeable bad actors from within the movement, I’d say the best (and most difficult) way is try to treat it like a chance for input and discussion. Like an opportunity for free feedback and review. There have been so many formats of human society, and so many utopian attempts, chances are no one person can build the entire solution on their own, right?

But mostly, don’t talk down to them, don’t assume bad faith, especially when they’re taking the time to carefully articulate their points and to read your ideas.

From where I’m reading, this didn’t look like a wilful misrepresentation, it looked like a sincere attempt at dialogue you slapped down.

TrismegistusMx,

I don’t talk down to people. I talk to people in the exact tone they use when addressing me. When they start complaining that they don’t have access to information that’s printed right in front of their faces, when they twist clear communications into strawmen, and when they stubbornly cling to their delusions after being corrected; they are acting in bad faith. When they ask sincere questions, accept new information, and engage meaningfully; I do the same. I linked the passages that explained the solutions that the user insisted that I was neglecting and they refused to read them.

bitsplease,

getting mad at me for telling you that you have all of this information already

First off, I don’t see where you could get “anger” from my prior comment, frustration - absolutely, but I feel I explained my frustration in a calm and polite manner, asking you to simply refrain from it in future - which, I feel I should point out - you did not actually do - which is why I’ll be blocking you after I post this comment, because as you claim to do yourself, I prefer to engage only in constructive conversations, and a conversation wherein one party can’t refrain from making baseless accusations repeatedly is - by definition - not a constructive one.

These guides are for each individual to determine who to make alliances with. Maybe it’s the whole “Decentralized” thing that has you confused. Each individual is responsible for their own borders and their own actions. The guides even discuss cooperative and creative thought processes within the individual, so that one isn’t fooled by charismatic individuals asking them to give up their power.

Nope - not confused, just unconvinced - but I’ve already said again and again why I don’t buy that the thin and fragile protections you lay out would work in the long run, I don’t feel the need to re-iterate them, just re-read my previous comments

I’m open to criticism

Not one single comment of yours in this entire thread has you gracefully accepting criticism. Not one (I checked). Every single time someone has presented you with criticism, you’ve snapped at them. And (though I admit I didn’t look beyond the first page or two) I don’t see any comment from you in other threads doing so either.

as soon as you demonstrate any understanding of this project

I think what you mean (based on how you’ve spoken thus so far to myself and others) is “until you agree with me”. Because so far the only people you’ve dealt with using any civility that I can see are people who already agree with you. Everyone who doesn’t already agree with you seems to have been thoroughly offended by and alienated by you.

Like I said previously, thanks to your lack of decorum, I’m going to be blocking you after I post this comment - so you can save yourself the effort of replying, I won’t be able to see it. Hell, maybe you won’t even be able to see this comment and I’m typing all of this into the wind, I really don’t know how blocking on lemmy works - guess we’ll find out 🤷

TrismegistusMx,

You still haven’t criticized the project, only me for not spoon feeding it to you. Any further comment is a waste of our time, since you promised to block me.

TrismegistusMx,

Bugging out is the last resort. The first tactic is opening up a line of communication using constructive language. You heard one sentence about a very complex movement and you screamed out in resistance. I thought you were an advocate of change, why do you fight for the familiar status quo without considering alternatives?

Deceptichum,
Deceptichum avatar

Mate it’s fucking lunacy.

Key Features of Project Murmuration:
Decentralization: Similar to how a murmuration operates without a central leader, Project Murmuration seeks to create a society without a traditional hierarchical structure. Instead, decision-making, power, and responsibilities are distributed among individuals, fostering a sense of collective ownership.
Self-Sustainability: Just as a murmuration adapts to its environment for survival, this project emphasizes self-sustainability. Communities are designed to intelligently and organically grow, utilizing available resources efficiently to meet their needs and reduce dependence on external systems.
Adaptability: Murmurations are known for their ability to swiftly respond to changes. Project Murmuration aims to create communities capable of adapting to shifting circumstances, be they environmental, social, or economic. This adaptability ensures resilience and continued growth.
Flexibility: Just as murmurations shift and reshape themselves, the project encourages a flexible mindset where structures, plans, and strategies can be altered as needed. This prevents rigidity and promotes innovative solutions.
Shared Intention: Project Murmuration emphasizes recruiting members through shared intentions and social connections. Individuals join based on a commitment to the principles of cooperation, abundance, and well-being for all.

Open Source Civilization Creation Kit: The project’s backbone is a torrented and open-source “Civilization Creation Kit.” This resource provides knowledge on survival, cultural enrichment, and essential roles, empowering members to create thriving communities in various environments.
Avoidance of Violence: One of the central purposes of Project Murmuration is to create a society that avoids threats of violence from ideologically opposed cultures. By fostering cooperation and peaceful principles, the project aims to coexist harmoniously with surrounding cultures.

Bug-Out Plans and Alertness: Members of a murmuration engaged in active projects are prepared with bug-out plans in case of infiltration or attack. They remain alert for signs of emerging hierarchies within the organization, as the project aims to prevent oppressive power structures.
Individual Authority and Vigilance: Every member of a murmuration is considered an authority unto themselves. They are united by common purpose but remain vigilant for signs of hierarchy. This mindset aims to prevent the concentration of power and maintain a cooperative spirit.

. Recruitment and Allies: The project encourages members to participate in activities aligned with its principles and to avoid predatory or competitive groups. This strategy allows the murmuration to generate abundance within existing systems.
Cultural Enrichment: Project Murmuration emphasizes cultural enrichment through educational resources, contributing to the overall growth and well-being of its members.

Covert Signals: Members can use covert signals to indicate their alignment with the murmuration without alerting potential threats. These signals help to identify allies discreetly.
Plausible Deniability: The project aims to defend itself from attacks by employing plausible deniability and a lack of accountability, making it challenging for adversaries to pinpoint and act against it.

It’s fucking asinine gibberish saying half of much of nothing. You’ve espoused no new ground breaking ideas, if anything you’ve weakened the SolarPunk movement through what sounds like some highly sus ecofash sounding shit.

Stop acting like some enlightened philosopher here to save us all with your shower thought of the week and get out there and go plant some native flora already.

TrismegistusMx,

I do plant native flora. I feel bad for you. Your accusations of eco-fascism are obviously projections. You will never be happy unless YOU lead the change. The sad part is that you can lead change in a non-hierarchical structure like the Murmuration, but you will never make a meaningful difference under the system you’re defending with your hatred.

icepuncher69,

Sounds like a cult to me

icepuncher69,

Is this a cult?

TrismegistusMx,

Define cult. Nobody can tell you what to do in the Murmuration. Each member is an authority unto themselves.

icepuncher69, (edited )

A bunch of people going to live in the middle of nowhere in a wierd society with hippie/new age ideals with a charismatic leader. And also lots of forced heavy labor.

TrismegistusMx,

Project Murmurations says, “If you believe that going into the middle of nowhere in a wierd society with hippie/new age ideals with a charismatic leader and lots of labor serves yourself and your community then do it. You are also free to change your course if you find that your plan isn’t working out.”

It offers tools to assist in creating self-sustaining communities and a shared identity based on a simple philosophy. Since every member is an authority, every member is free to serve the project however they see fit. There are suggestions at slrpnk.net/c/murmuration

icepuncher69,

Your intentions sound good and i agree we should throw hiearchy out the window and i like sustainability too, but i dont really understeand what you are, is it just a fediverse sub? Or like a discord server or you go to to a compound and do the whole hippie cult thing? Because i whent to the link and all i see are pictures of birds with new age text on them and all are posted by you m8, so im not really buying it.

TrismegistusMx,

It’s a Project I conceived, and I hope that other people understand how it works and begin to participate. Most of the time people see that somebody is trying something and they start trying to pick it apart without understanding any of it. They act like reading a few paragraphs of text and considering a different mode of operating is worse than pulling teeth and they retreat back into the familiar ignorance of comment trolling.

icepuncher69,

Yeah but what is the idea? I read your post about the whole changing mentality thing, but is nothing concreethe, i just whant you to explain me what is the project about, since all ive seen are birds and ideological thingies, i dont undearsteand what is it that you are trying to acomplish.

TrismegistusMx,

First line of the pinned post.

Project Murmuration is a hypothetical concept that envisions a decentralized, self-sustaining, adaptable, and flexible civilization inspired by the natural phenomenon of murmurations seen in birds, particularly starlings. This project proposes a unique approach to creating communities that thrive through cooperation, shared intention, and a commitment to abundance while avoiding threats of violence from opposing cultures.

What doesn’t that answer for you?

icepuncher69,

The pinned post didnt apear to me, seriously. But i still dont understeand what do you whant to acomplish with the whole no hiearchy thing, do you whant everyone to have their own sustainable farm in the backyard while chatting throught the feddiverse? Do you whant them to live in a solarpunk anarcho-comunist comunity in a compound somewhet? Or is it just a writing project you have going on. Now it doesnt sound so cultish, just very clowdy and not well defined. Specially with the whole new age ideology from the birds thing, thats the most cultish thing to me, imo if you whant sustainabilty you just do it, it doesnt really need a mindset other than to get used to not be a consumer or mindless drone as we normaly are. If you really arent trying to start a cult then you should look into and share more about renewable technolgies and tips and strategies of how to set up farms, automate them with sustainable technologies and how to get around the whole legal and taxes jargon. Im convinced we have enough advancements in techonlogy so that no human being should ever work another day in their lives, at least not the way corporate culture promotes with the whole grind and hustle culture. I heard there was a project of a sustainable automated farm over at australia, dont remember the name ,or even if they are still going since their web sites copyright is from 2020, but you should look more into it. I also heard there was a automated mine somewhere, would be pretty cool if it wasnt corporate owned.

TrismegistusMx,

How does a flock know when to move, and how does it move as one? To a Starling, what is good for the flock is good for the individual. Each part contributes to the whole, and when a threat appears, the strength of the whole protects the individual. The purpose of the bird imagery is to invoke the spirit of the project without all of the essays and lists. As for what people should do, that’s up to them. Each individual is an authority. You can help somebody else or you can start your own thing. If you have a yard and a garden, then try to spread your knowledge to others. If you have a degree in history, write parables that prepare individuals to recognize historical threats. If you think you understand the philosophy of the movement and want to create a guide for others, go ahead. The core of this project is community building. All of the posts on the Lemmy community are just intended to open the mind and provide examples. I have a ton of survival information, a repository that’s most likely larger than anything you’ve seen. I need to find a good host for it online.

icepuncher69,

Well imho you should focus more on the practical part since its easy to misinterpret it all as new age jargon, not drop it all togheter but focus less on it, and if you are serious about it, you should try other more mainstream platforms to promote it since lemmy is full of political extremist in all sides of the scale, and neckbeards like me who throw away new age sounding things into the religious-cultish-insanity pile (like i was trying to do and still am wondering if i should) and either dismis them or point and laugh at them, because we do like and take more seriously the “essays and lists” than ideological texts that invoque bird imagery. And besides, leaving all up to people themselves? If thats so then people are gonna decide that this cant maintain their interest and nobody is gonna whant to read it, and even if they do, and manage to carry out your view, then someone in the community is gonna whant power over everyone else and is gonna get a bunch of brainless followers to side with them and it all starts again, its just human nature at this point. I have a few solutions for that and the least crazy but less efective one is to have something like what we had in the last century but get rid of the oligarchs and corporate interests and just replace all tech with sustainable tech, that would solve the climate crisis permanently and inflation for a while, but it will still keep inequality, i have another solution but is crazy sci fi shit.

TrismegistusMx,

I’ve been around long enough to know that there’s no way to please everybody, and I’m not trying to. Ideally, the first few active members will be enthusiastic and understanding of the underlying principles. I have created a Discord, and I have more information in reserve. I’m just trying to grow the project organically for now.

icepuncher69,

Well i wish you good luck with that, but if you are not wiling to compromise your vision, then at least try to treat people better, ive seen some dispustes you had after checking your profile out and i know that treathing people how they threat you sound equitative enough but from what i have seen is not the way to go since one should know how to pick their fights and be better to the ones that you are talking to since that will give you more credibility even if the counterpart has already decided that you are wrong and can still sound level headed and even correct to the onlookers, specially if we take into acount the type of things that you preach. And i know you are capable of that since you mannaged to keep a long level headed discuscion with my dumbass and made me understeand you better even if i dont agree with your methodolgy/aproach, that is hard to come by this days and i congratulate you for that since i was expecting you to lose pattience and just start shouting that i dont understeand and that only the enlighted ones will or you ignorant fool dont know how to read or yadah yadah yadah. Really it was a plecent surprise, but i do have to say that if you have an idealised version of your first members, then it sounds to me that you whant followers that say yes to you and dont really challenge your view, so yeah dont do or at least dont express that since… you know… what i been repeating all this time. So i think im just gonna let you do your thing and wish you good luck with that and to have a nice day.

TrismegistusMx,

Oh I give people two or three chances before I decide that continuing is a waste of their time and mine, then I use them as an example. I’m not going to bang my head up against the wall for the sake of one person who never wanted to understand. You seem to think that this is an equal exchange. It’s actually a sharing of ideas met with repeated attacks. You accuse me of being unyielding and failing to compromise. There is no compromise with ignorance. You and I have gotten along swimmingly. It’s because you know how to use logic, and you’re not trying to mischaracterize every statement that I make. Do you notice the difference in my responses?

icepuncher69,

Oh, if thats how you view it then i got to say that im a little dissapointed, im not accusing you of failing to compromise, you didnt fail in anything since there is not a correct or incorrect stateb of what i meant i that, in previous comments i was sugesting that you should focus on a more practicall aproach to sustainability rather than an ideological one and what i meant with the compromise word in the last comment is that you already have your vision well set and are looking to see it throught, not changing it since its the focus you whant to give and thats fine. And i do have to say that you got wrong the attack part of this, althought im not gonna lie, i was being acusational but not against you, more about the nature of your vission (not you) and you can see it in my very first comment and thats that it sounded like a cult, thats what i was atacking, and now at the end i did tell you that you (not your vision) should try to be less condecending with some online neticens since its easy to bully, troll and rip apart your vision, and that one should behave better agaisnt those people that really cant be put down and should be 100% ignored since their discussions are usually in bad faith, rather that making an example out of them (i.e. owning them) since they just gonna resort to busting ones balls and are gonna corner you into saying something that wil make you look bad, in that part i was trying to be constructive rather than condesending but it seems it didnt come of like that so i guess i rather drop it. And i if this was an exchange of ideas, you kinda put down all of mine since i fellt that you labeled them ignorance which it was exactly what i was praising you for earlier to not resort doing that (unless i misundersteand) so i guess that praise is invalid now. And after all of this i was thinking that you had something going on and would have been interesting to see what would be of it, but now i think that if this isnt the basis of a cult, then is just a spiritual blog. So like i said, you do your thing, i wont judge anymore since already did. So have a cool day m8.

TrismegistusMx,

It’s not that I’m inflexible in my vision, it’s that I’m dealing with people who think they know what the project is about, so they keep arguing with their own fantasies. I’m only trying to orient them to the actual project, so that any input they provide is actually relevant. When I label something as ignorance, I recognize that it’s triggering for people. That’s because they don’t understand that the root of ignorance is “ignore.” When the information is presented in good faith and it’s ignored or interpreted in bad faith, that’s ignorance.

As for the practical vs ideological approach, all of the information a person needs to build a better world already exists. The reason it’s not being built is that people are programmed with capitalistic ideology. This project is about using an entirely new ideology to direct those actions. If you think the project needs better PR then you are welcome to act practically to create it. If you just want to build a homestead, I have resources for that as well. I am creating a framework. I hope that others use the framework to enact change in the same way I’m using it to enact change in my own life.

The problem is that people all want to talk about what’s not possible, and they don’t want to reach just a bit to see what is possible, and the groundwork that’s being laid. They’ve got that capitalistic, competitive mindset that compels them to tear down anything they don’t control, and that’s what I’m fighting against.

MrMamiya,

We get the society we expect. I really believe that.

TrismegistusMx,

I’d love to expect better, but the common person violently defends the status quo.

MrMamiya,

Yeah. I should clarify I wasn’t trying to say you’re doing a disservice with your post. This is kind of a model of what we could expect, and I like it.

We are social animals. If I strongly believe something won’t happen and I share it with people who value my opinion, it spreads. People also don’t want to be on the wrong side of the mob.

A perfect example of this is a site like this. If I was to get downvoted a lot, the chances anyone would come to my aid shrink exponentially. Even if I made a statement that all those people held as strong beliefs, the best I could hope for is to be left alone.

People think we’re not connected, but I don’t exist if you aren’t here to not be me. I could go on but I’m losing the track I think.

TrismegistusMx,

This site gives me hope as well. You may enjoy my new community. I’m trying out a new model.

slrpnk.net/c/murmuration

icepuncher69,

More like the one we deserve, we should do something against bad leadership.

Sanctus,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

Wish I knew the source of the bottom art.

jwlarocque,

Appears to also be Robin Guinin, this might be the original source: mrmondialisation.org/merci-a-robin-guinin-pour-so…

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