ChrisMayLA6,
@ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us avatar

Finally, finally the has a plan which involves a doubling of the training places for & .

This is (perhaps) a decade late, but welcome nonetheless. However, now the Q. is how to retain them once they've been trained?

Here's an idea:
listen to the & pay NHS staff properly!

as has been demonstrated conclusively by the defunding of the , you cannot have a world class system on the cheap.

RolloTreadway,

@ChrisMayLA6 It's extraordinary (and frustrating) that the Tories have consistently been unable/unwilling to comprehend that there's a link between NHS staffing levels and NHS pay. And indeed, that there's a link between staffing levels and patient outcomes.

I mean, come on. This is hardly rocket science. "Low pay = low staff retention" isn't a revolutionary concept.

riggbeck,
@riggbeck@mastodon.social avatar

@ChrisMayLA6

I sometimes wonder why there are different training streams for doctors and nurses, given the shared body of knowledge they must both have. It would make more sense if everyone trained first as a nurse, with entry to medical school conditional on applicants having worked for a year in the NHS. That would broaden entry into the profession, make it easier to apply, and provide a steady supply of nurses.

I suspect it's a class thing.

chrisshaw,

@riggbeck @ChrisMayLA6 a doctor is not a nurse with extra stuff on top.

Doctors diagnose conditions and prescribe appropriate treatment. Nurses apply treatment until the condition is stable/cured

They are completely different parts of the healthcare pipeline.

The reason we need more nurses than doctors is that the time taken to have treatment applied until recovery is much longer than the diagnosis.

It's got jack all to do with class.

riggbeck,
@riggbeck@mastodon.social avatar

@chrisshaw @ChrisMayLA6

Doctors are much better paid than nurses and have a higher social status. The fact that there are two different streams of medical training is an implicit admission that there is a class difference in healthcare roles. However you might wish to deny it.

A single training stream in the first stages would bring in all classes, with the assumption that talent and intelligence,
wherever people start from, can take them to the top of the profession.

chrisshaw,

@riggbeck @ChrisMayLA6 I'm just mightily glad you're not involved in any way with medical training programmes.

Dumping a load of untrained A level students into the NHS for a year rather than allowing them to go to medical school would be a disaster for the NHS. However, you may wish to deny it.

riggbeck,
@riggbeck@mastodon.social avatar

@chrisshaw @ChrisMayLA6

Did you read the original toot? I suspect not. I suggested that both future doctors and nurses should first train together as nurses, then work in NHS hospitals for a year when qualified. How is that 'untrained'.

You seem determined to grab the wrong end of the stick.

troglodyt,

@chrisshaw @riggbeck @ChrisMayLA6

making decisions and administration of workers means they're not working class, doofus

PJ_Evans,
@PJ_Evans@mastodon.social avatar

@chrisshaw @riggbeck @ChrisMayLA6
Nurse-practitioners are between the two.

cpm,
@cpm@spore.social avatar

@chrisshaw
Dr's deal with disease
Nurses deal with people

there is crossover, accepted.

@riggbeck @ChrisMayLA6 @cstross

marcas,

@chrisshaw @ChrisMayLA6 @riggbeck I’m not a doctor, but my wife is. So I know lots of them. And every single one is clear on what nurses do, and why what they do is mission-critical. Asking which is more important is like asking which you’d rather have for your boat: a rudder or a propeller. Asking that question shows you don’t understand the question.

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