I believe Mossad is special forces and intelligence gathering, not PR/propaganda dissemination. These are the agencies you're thinking of. That's like saying Navy Seals or the CIA are responsible for white house press briefings.
I honestly wonder what the fuck every israeli intel agency was doing, it as the anniversary of the Yom Kippur war, how did they not see SOMETHING coming is beyond my ability to comprehend
Evil tongues suggest they might have been looking away.
I also find it weird how Israel claims since 5 weeks theyd be shelling thousands of terrorist targets, having intricate knowledge of where these are. But apparently Israel didnt notice anything unusual happening there that would indicate an imminent attack…
I remember the discussions in the months prior to Russia invading Ukraine, where activities were noticed to prepare the attack and question was, if Russia is going to or not.
How the fuck are invasion preparations on known sites in a tiny and well surveilled totally surrounded are not noted?
Based on what I have read the Oct 7 attack was not planned through known sites, possibly by word of mouth.
Russia has a lot more equipment to move via logistics than Hamas does for guerilla attacks, they amassed on the Ukraine border before the invasion.
They used, among other things: over 5.000 rockets, drones, anti-tank launchers, anti-air launchers, motorized paragliders, dozens of cars and thousands of firearms.
You cannot amass these things by “word of mouth”. And if Israel didn’t know where these 5.000 rockets were launched from, then their claim about knowing where all the terrorist targets would be, seems not very believable.
One certainly could. The biggest, most complicated war in human history was waged long before the internet was created, all logistics needed coordinated offline.
if Israel didn’t know where these 5.000 rockets were launched from
If it was a command post then there must be a path for Israel to attack. It’s not like Hamas gets to use “one weird trick” to exclude their command center from being a valid target.
If Israel thought it was a military target, did every thing else right, but sucked up then it’s a sucky product of urban war.
If Israel knew it was really only a hospital and attacked anyway — then they are morally and strategically fucked. Rightfully so. (Kinda like how other countries have also overreacted to a terrorist attack and gone after the wrong target).
And of course the reality of all this probably doesn’t matters because a large number of people make up their mind first and from then on ignore and other intelligence even when it’s gathered.
as usual with this shit show of a conflict, it seems both sides are awful: hamas used the hospital as a command post which means israel has to be able to attack it, however attacking it with indiscriminate shelling is absolutely unacceptable
both entities are completely unacceptable… debating which one is more so is outrageous, and if anyone “sides” with either one they’re morally corrupt, brainwashed, or too stupid to comprehend anything but binaries
Are we still talking about the hospital all the video footage is from? The video footage of a hospital thats in one piece and not shelled? Are you talking about the one missile that hit a carpark and was probably a misfire from Palestine?
Who’s doing that? I think people universally are against baby killing, but some feel there is no other option to root out combatants using them as human shields.
We can disagree but we aren’t being shot at or have boots on the ground.
The fact that a lot of people ignore that the Palestinians fought a civil war precisely to not have Hamas in power and lost Gaza to a Hamas takeover after the last election (2006) tells you that the zionist propaganda engines are well oiled and working.
Maybe in the future, the citizenry should kill religious extremists that take over their government instead of just protest? I could think of a few places that might be warranted right now to curtail future violence. I just can’t legally give a good example right now.¯_(ツ)_/¯
Using a hospital as a hostage and bombing a hospital are two acts so beyond the pale that it’s pointless to argue which is worse. Both are incredibly fucked up.
Don’t try to justify the mass murder of innocent, injured and sick civilians, including children and infants. There’s literally nothing that excuses dropping bombs on hospitals. And schools. And trucks full of refugees. And people’s homes. And ambulances.
It is interesting how the same US political ideology that supports this mass murder of children are, generally, also the ones who consider zygotes to be children and criminalize pregnant women for having miscarriages. But I digress.
The point is, it’s all a bullshit power play, don’t let it distract you from your own humanity.
It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it.
These days we have no excuse, either to go to war, or to allow for conditions in which acts of war would be an appropriate (if desperate) response.
War remains a sign that irrational, irresponsible people are still allowed to take positions of power. And so long as we cannot stop that nonsense, it is an indictment of our species, that we may not be able to adequately civilize and govern ourselves with reason, rather are yet another species of ape that is going to run its course before going extinct.
It’s actually quite simple…Billionaires are making a lot of money off all the wars the US is involved in. It’s a racket, The billionaires want all the resources in those countries and the former governments didn’t want to hand it all over for free.
So the ultra rich bribed the government to overthrow those governments and install dictators and bribed the media to run with a narrative that those democratically elected leaders who wanted the best for their people are evil and hurting them.
It’s sort of getting debated because it was used as the place where hostages where kept and where Hamas militia were operating from. But I guess that wasn’t significant enough to raise eyebrows.
It’s not worthless, there’s 500 million dollars worth of gas north of Gaza that Israel wants to secure. They’re already stealing it and have been for years. And the 75 year long occupation must end of course.
Is that really what we’re debating? We all know it isn’t.
What’s important is can they get away with it before losing the support of those propping them up.
When the US and their buddies bombed the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and we all gathered around to watch the display of “shock and awe” did we bother to find out what they were bombing? Or did we just just go “take that, Taliban and Al-Qaida”?
Anything Israel are doing has been done before by their allies. They know it’s shady as fuck, but also know they got away with it too.
When the US and their buddies bombed the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and we all gathered around to watch the display of “shock and awe” did we bother to find out what they were bombing? Or did we just just go “take that, Taliban and Al-Qaida”?
I was a teenager when that happened and didn’t give a fuck about what’s going on in the world, honestly. I didn’t particularly care for 9/11 either tho, so there’s that.
We did actually. With embedded reporters and human rights activists keeping an eye on things to make sure. There aren’t a ton of headlines about the US bombing hospitals because we avoided doing that. Shocking, I know.
When the war on Iraq and Afghanistan started, I stood with my children, one in a stroller outside of Dick Cheney 's house in silent protest. During the Vietnam war I made several trips to Washington DC to protest the war. There is no upside to war. What we can do today, is call, email your senator and congressman that you want the killing to stop, you want the USA to stop funding this genocide. Call every day, it only takes a few minutes and if everyone did that, we would have an impact.
So, what’re the chances you’ve got nothing to say about the cache of weapons & explosives they found under the hospital along with the fact that it was indeed a Hamas outpost?
???
After all you’re educated enough on the subject that you’re aware it’d been suspected as a Hamas outpost for years, yes?
???
Wonder how many people you’ve personally lied to that’ve seen through the manipulation and propaganda.
And to save you the trouble of responding, fake news, planted goods, paid actors - pick one and go fuck myself. Got it.
While this is technically correct on the surface, it doesn’t really tell the whole story imo.
Israel is a nuclear power that has the ability (and clearly the willingness) to eradicate Palestinians from its territory. Hamas is a guerilla militant group. Yes they’re both evil, but more practically, only one has the ability to end this conflict, and it’s Israel.
The way you phrase it poses an impossible dilemma for Palestinian resistance. Non-violent resistance is outlawed and slaughtered (anti-BDS law, massacre of the Great March of Return, assassinations of peace activists, international smear campaigns, etc.). Violent resistance is impossible on equal standards as Israel maintains air superiority over occupied Palestine - separate infrastructure would be bombed. So we have a ghettoized population, under siege, under blockade, under air monitoring. What option is left for them? Hidden military infrastructure, tunnels, arms smuggling - and this all gets immediately condemned.
We try to hold these populations to the standards of international law - but morally, the abstraction starts to break down. It’s easy for a country like the U.S. to abide by some of these standards on the surface - we can have exposed military infrastructure, because we have SAM sites, we have intercontinental ballistic missiles, first-class fighter jets, etc. We’ve heard plenty about the perspectives that purport to justify the Israeli/U.S. offensive, that seem on the surface to make our military efforts legitimate. But (from the media at least) we rarely hear about the narratives in support of the opposing side - 75 years of ethnic cleansing, land theft, crushing military occupation, siege, perfidy, random massacres and apartheid. They have a legitimate cause and grievances. So we have to actually consider what avenues of recourse are even available to them to pursue that cause. Otherwise we’re essentially just telling them to “quiet down and die”. On the broader scale, it’s like saying, it’s forbidden to punch while you’re lying on the ground, while you tackle somebody and beat them to death.
That being said, of course certain things are both war crimes and not essential to resistance - i.e., killing unarmed civilians - to whatever extent Hamas militants actually did engage in this (we know they killed some, and we know the IDF killed some as well - as well as the 13-20k+ civilians Israel has killed at this point).
And this is not to give credence to Israeli claims of repurposing, either. The standard under international law is to prove that each individual peace of infrastructure is actively being used for military purposes, and that its strategic value outweighs the casualties from shelling it, and Israel has not been meeting that standard overall by any metric.
They release proof of the hostages being taken there directly after the attack.
It looks as if Hamas sensed the attack coming and pulled out before the IDF arrived
All the doctors there claiming there never was any Hamas there are kind of full of shit - if people with a meat cleaver walking the hallways having people with bags on their heads in tow is normal there I’m not sure what to think anymore…
It would be completely normal to take injured hostages/prisoners to a hospital, and keep them under guard. In fact it’s the required action in international law.
So no the presence of a couple bodies in the morgue and a few guys with AKs doesn’t prove shit.
You literally chose the most biased source to get your information from and are surprised when all they find are “a handful of weapons and a laptop.”
Yeah bud, they found a lot more then that, and no the people who committed the biggest Jewish genocide since the holocaust PROBABY weren’t thinking of required action in international law
You are 100% the type of intellectual to think that silence or eventual banal agreement toward you is genuine and not a placation to avoid someone who never learned how to be wrong.
Did you really just compare 1400 deaths to the Holocaust? What about the 10,000 Gazans? Are they not human enough for you?
And, no. Even CNN is running articles saying there needs to be more evidence.
Since launching its operation at the hospital on November 15, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have shown images of a tunnel shaft and military equipment, but have yet to show conclusive proof of the large-scale command and control center it alleges is there.
-CNN
Senior U.S. officials said Friday that they remained confident that Hamas and Palestinian militants had been operating under the complex of Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, even as the Israeli military has struggled to produce proof to back its assertion that Hamas was using the hospital and its patients as human shields.
-New York Times
And I just went to go find those. I’ve been looking directly at the videos Israel released. Which are ridiculous on their face.
Yeah I did because it was the truth, and there’s no need to resort to whataboutism on the Israel/palastiniane crisis of all things. Yes I think 10,000 gazan deaths is awful, to try to just compare the situation based on numbers alone is just another manipulation, that would really only work on children. So you’re essentially a bully who tells himself it’s for a good cause.
That type of wording is incredibly common with publications trying to keep a poise of neutrality, as it is true that more evidence would clarify the situation. They aren’t denying the proof, they’re simply saying more will be needed, as any neutral publication would. Here’s a much more relavant snippet,
“The White House has backed Israel’s claims, saying that Hamas was storing weapons and operating a command node from Al-Shifa, citing US intelligence.”
My bias is trusting telescopes about 100x the strength of hubble pointed back at the earth’s surface. I think it’s a pretty fair bias but I guess we’ll see, I doubt this is a repeat of" guaranteed nuclear weapons" but obviously there’s potential.
Everyone is awful in the I/P crisis, an objective observer with the full backgroun will always, always side with Israel. The plight of the modern palastinian child is literally the only objectionable part of this and Hamas will continue to use this until they are replaced with another religious dictatorship.
Because with friends like you, eternally echoing the idea of their complete innocence, there’s about a 0% chance palestine is getting any less fueled by holy war anytime soon.
So the Palestinians are just numbers to you. Great. Thanks for the confirmation.
The last time the world took the White House’s word on intelligence without seeing the proof, we ended up with a 20 year hangover. You don’t get to handwave war crimes. You either have the evidence or you don’t. And before you say they need time to explore the tunnels, this is what robots are for. They even give a convenient video feed and if they get blown up then oh well, it was a robot. The entire assertion that they need time for soldier safety is bullshit.
Objective observers don’t accept war crimes without immediate mitigating evidence. Make believe graphics and maintenance tunnel hatches aren’t it. Neither is common middle eastern security guard equipment.
Also, you’ll notice I’ve never said Hamas was innocent. But only one side in this war is actively committing genocide.
Aids, bombs and petrol. Nah I actually hope it doesn’t go there but I can totally see people choosing to be assholes while having the time of their lives. Absolutely not cool but hey man if earth was a television channel for the aliens, ahem, we’d probably be pretty far out in the shit sticks
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