I can sometimes be slow to notice the elephant in the room & the eggshells on the floor (the problem that everyone carefully denies and manages so as not to upset anyone), but once I do notice, I want to confront and solve it.
The problem in this instance is my MIL’s insistence that she & FIL continue to live in a house too large to manage on an acre of rambling garden in an isolated location at the top of a narrow windy road.
Of course solving such a thing is not always possible, & if I’m not the main person affected, the person doing their best to support & manage the situation, it’s not my problem. Attempting to solve it might just make the situation worse for that person & leave others feeling judged & hurt.
@Susan60@actuallyautistic We moved my mom out of a small town and a terrible house she had been in for almost 25 years in Oct, 2019, right before the pandemic started. It's going on 5 years and she's only now feeling more at home in her new place (a very small retirement neighborhood in my town). It would have been impossible for her to age in place in that small town w/o one of us two kids moving there. It's hard to know what is the right thing to do to find balance.
That’s the key word, balance. ATM, with BIL willing to do so much support with our moral support & financial contributions where necessary from overseas, the situation seems to be in balance. But any injury, the loss of a driver’s licence or the death of one of them, would throw that balance out.
I have a good friend who spent about five years traveling to her parents place 90 miles from here four or five days a week to try to keep them aging in place. They loved where they lived! Loss of it would mean loss of identity, as you mentioned.
Then, both of them had health problems and took a turn for the worse. I don't know if staying there was better or if moving them would've been better. It's a tough call.
@Susan60 My view is, as common to much of my existence it seems, at odds with "the vibe". If i were they, they me, i would like my wishes to be accepted by my fam & friends. Even if on any purely functional logic objective basis i might be losing my marbles & ofc sooner or later my physical capability to manage my place, i would like to just stumble along here doing my thing, in such manner as i can still manage even if externally dysfunctional, until i either cark it or cark myself. If i / they have expressed a strong preference to be left alone to do my / their thing, i would want peeps to just respect it, & bugger off.
@msdropbear42@Susan60 Fair enough, up to a point. What happens when they have trouble feeding themselves properly, or get UTIs (common with dementia), just as 2 examples? Family has a duty of care and must negotiate ongoing ad hoc interventions. Better to have a plan in place IMHO than to stumble from disaster to disaster.
@sister_ratched@Susan60 As i said, i know i'm not of the vibe, but my logic is simple (& predicated fwiw on the identical thinking i used yonks ago when i created & distributed my #AdvancedCareDirective specifying the range of circumstances in which i want no resuscitation, & indeed to have voluntary euthanasia if legal... or otherwise doable). It's simply this; if a peep makes important decisions about their future, decline, & demise, when still fully marbled, & fully aware that eventually various health & pragmatic problems will arise, but still makes said decision in full awareness of these, then... fam/friends should respect this & back off. I think that my attitude differs from the vibe coz unlike most, i regard existence as a bane not blessing, to be endured until one can viably exit, & not be interfered with to obstruct that aspiration. The vast majority don't concur, & i understand that, which is why i'm not advocating my position for the masses, only for those of like mind. Btw, i'm not trying to convince you & others, coz this is a matter of ideology & philosophy, but instead simply to explain an alternative perspective.
@msdropbear42@Susan60 I can absolutely understand that position, particularly in light of your situation. The point about making that decision whilst still in possession of all the marbles is also a very pertinent one. All the more reason for Susan's family to have THE CONVO before the marbles go, so they actually DO have a plan, albeit a plan to do nothing, if necessary.
It’s all very messy. A mixture of denial & minimisation of the difficulties, anxiety & fear on the part of one who does most of the hard physical work but is the one who keeps keeling over, blithe denial on the part of the other. Reliance on their son-in-law to support them, made easier by the fact that they’re not as dependent as his own mother. (Projecting all of their own vulnerability onto her.)
BIL has MsDrop Bear’s approach. Humour them & support them, respect their wishes (as awfully unreasonable & dependent on his support as they are) & what will be will be. And I’m resigning myself to respecting that, given that he’s the one most affected.
The 2nd last road up to their house, single lane, forested (because steep & deep gullies, everything else was cleared decades ago), cliff side, one way bridges, is one of my greatest concerns. Their driving is shit, poor judgement. I’m just hoping that they don’t take anyone else out with them.
just hoping that they don’t take anyone else out with them
This is a really important point. The fact they still drive is ofc a high risk vector for doing just that. Goodness it's tricky!
It's my own aspiration not to "take anyone else out with them", which is why my shortlist of ways to kill myself once i eventually find the courage to do so, does not include gassing myself in my home. It would be simply indecent & immoral if my action, post-cark, caused harm or death to others by the gas-filled house finding some ignition source i'd overlooked & exploding.
In your OP you said...
but once I do notice, I want to confront and solve it
...which is an understandable & IMO admirable trait. Given all that you've generously shared with us in this thread, it seems highly improbable that you will be able to do so in this case, no disrespect intended, given...
denial & minimisation ... blithe denial
...& so it would appear that your...
still be there for moral & financial support if necessary
...is perhaps prolly the least-worst outcome available, & thus i suppose your challenge/burden is to find some way to reconcile yourselves to it, despite your druthers, & knowing that emotional pain lies ahead in the near-term.
@msdropbear42@Susan60 Well said MsDB, and Susan, it sounds like there's nothing much else to be done... except maybe the driving thing but BIL will need to sort that as he'll be called on more often if they give the driving away. Good luck!
The whole community, villages & the big town, seem to be mostly over 70. I think all of the adult youngsters cleared out to the bigger cities or overseas once borders opened. If everyone who “shouldn’t” be driving stopped, the system wouldn’t cope. Too many people would need to move into towns & “retirement villages” & the public transport system wouldn’t cope.
People in Aus think of NZ as being very similar, which it is at first glance, but it’s very different when you look deeper. Poorer for a start. And older I’m guessing, hence their welcome of immigrants. My oldest’s teacher pay was about half that in Aus, one reason they didn’t have too much trouble not being able to return during Covid.
While I’m a fan of VAD, MIL is very against it. She’s not a conspiracy theorist but… if there’s one thing she’s is overly worried about, it’s that a right wing government (which they now have) might prefer to pressure oldies to take themselves out.
I don’t think there’s any risk of that. But the rise of fascism has a lot of vulnerable people, including the aged & autistic people, feeling a little edgy.
I’m not sure fascists is quite accurate. It’s an odd coalition. One small party & their leader were in coalition with Ardern when she was first elected, & is now enabling conservatives to rule.
@Susan60@msdropbear42 (Fascists is my generic term for RWNJs 😆)... yes, I see the problem: a coalition of good and bad, and the balance is different this time around.
So observationally objectively , passive aggressive?
Not judgemental, just trying to interpret the language and approximate.
Sounds like the result of a lifetime of masking. But unwilling to unmask and do a world view adult conversation to see where everyone is and what’s really important to them.
For me it was about being able to throw all the cards on the table yell all-in and calling bullshit to be practical. one day we will all get old.
I was just trying to understand.
Sorry.
My mother is enjoying being her autistic self at 76. She says it’s one of the best things that has happened to her is realizing it’s healthy to communicate and express emotions without a mask.
Keep in mind she lives close and learns everything my autistic partner and I learn and share.
Autistic Cross training and feedback, she feels like a trail blazer, but she dislikes texting.
That’s wonderful that your mum is on the journey with you! I feel a bit of a trail blazer at 63, but there must be lots of undiagnosed older people who’ve somehow managed to survive that long in an NT world. Is she mostly relieved or shocked by her discoveries? No need to be sorry. It’s all good.
I’m not sure my MIL would’ve been able to make that journey, even 15-20 years ago. Under her sweet exterior is a very tough & stubborn woman. That toughness & stubbornness have mostly served her well, but I doubt she’d take any suggestions of being on the spectrum kindly. She’s very smart, but has some odd ideas, which she has probably developed as part of her strategy for coping in a weird world. And she might’ve projected any thoughts about it onto FIL, whose monotropic tendencies & special interests are much more obvious.
@Susan60@actuallyautistic Two things we struggle through life when it comes to change. Our child growing up and our parents growing old. Emotion trumps logic in both cases. The inevitable is coming...no one wants to face that.
They will peg out at some point & we don’t have a problem with that. It’s the manner of their passing & how it affects others that is the issue. (They’re still driving.)
But you’re right. My parents died in their 40s, & I lost touch with their friends, & had little contact with my uncles. When I met my in-laws 18 or so years ago, they were hale & hearty. We saw them every 2-3 years, then yearly, then a 3 year Covid hiatus. And last time they were suddenly old, & now they’re ancient, & a pale shadow of their former selves. So we’re already grieving.
@Susan60@actuallyautistic I'm 100% with you on this. I saw my aunt/uncle a couple of months ago and in a year they have just faded. It is heart breaking.
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