Recommend to have the "Upvote" or Favorites list be hidden.

Currently, each thread has the "Activity" link that shows publicly everyone that upvoted/favorite a thread. This is counter norm to many coming from Reddit and newer folks that expected otherwise. I think hiding the list should be high priority in next feature update(removal?) to encourage frictionless upvoting behavior.

Case in point, NSFW threads are starting on kbin now, cross that with micro blogging that may involve people using real names, this creates unexpected personal preference being exposed.

As a option, Boost feature may still left to public view.

Anonymity is important. Let me know if I misunderstood how this works.

experbia,
experbia avatar

I'm still a little new with all this but from my understanding of the underlying federated protocol, this isn't really easily possible. It might be possible to remove the listing from the kbin and/or lemmy interfaces, but that would be visual-only: I think it will always be technically possible for another piece of software privy to the federated network to inspect these things about a post. Due to this, I think it would be better to show them and have it be known that this information is public than to hide them just on kbin and have it be a nasty surprise for users that the information is still relatively trivially accessible on another front-end or tool.

I think the safest course of action would be to have a separate account for interacting with information you do not want associated with your primary identity, as I suspect a "fix" for this issue that conceals voters is a long time out and on an ActivityPub protocol level, not a kbin level.

Syo, (edited )
Syo avatar

Thanks for explaining. That make sense to me. Sounds like it comes down to how do you federate the "likes" count while hiding ID, if the current protocol requires ID information. Right?

Let's hope people act responsibly.

Datsourdo,
Datsourdo avatar

It's possible to have just a Like/Dislike count and leave an empty array for the list of users when responding to requests against the federation endpoint. When pushing a Like/Dislike to other instances, it can be done with a random fake user account to preserve privacy.

augere,

I don't know. If they can make my subs and email private, I don't see why votes can't be? I'm not all that savvy, but it seems like it should be doable, no?

QuantumFilament,

If true, that aspect alone is going to lose a lot of users. It becomes too much trouble to hide information you don't want accidentally revealed.

It would be better to find a solution that grants actual anonymity. Otherwise, people will stop engaging for fear that it might someday be used against them.

omnislayer88,

I can totally see someone going to political threads and just making a list of all the people that downvoted/upvoted it to then target later

JelloBrains,
JelloBrains avatar

I'd like them to keep the activity listing on post responses in threads, I think making who downvoted semi-public could help to keep downvotes from becoming I don't like you buttons like they are used by many on Reddit.

crossmr,

Funny there is never any concern about upvote buttons being 'I like you or agree with you' buttons

kuontom,
kuontom avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    crossmr,

    The only real difference is that people don't like seeing that the majority doesn't agree with them. When the majority agrees with them, they pleased as punch. When it doesn't, that's when they get upset. Not all content deserves impassioned debate and hand holding. Sometimes people say certain things or acting in certain ways where the only appropriate response is to bury it and not give them attention.

    QuantumFilament,

    You're not going to achieve that goal. What you're going to get instead are arguments, drama, and tit-for-tat downvote wars.

    While I understand why you feel this has a positive aspect, ultimately, it will cause more problems than it solves.

    20k,

    +1, people aren't very good at rationally dealing with critique a lot of the time, and deanonymising critique simply leads to people getting sought at and attacked. I can absolutely imagine that someone will look at all the downvoters of their comments, and send them harassing messages

    Kierunkowy74,
    Kierunkowy74 avatar

    Downvotes do not propagate and turning downvote list private is feasible.

    !deleted120991,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    QuantumFilament,

    As another user pointed out, what about an LGBT person wanting to upvote something but not feeling safe if someone knows their username? Or a woman living in a place with abortion bounties wanting to upvote something about how to get help, but being afraid to?

    Or someone with an abusive spouse who might read between the lines (correctly or incorrectly) of what you upvote/downvote and get angry about it?

    There are a lot of highly significant real world ramifications to having your vote history publicly accessible. Losing your job and life or death consequences far outweigh the online voting system considerations.

    The possible problems caused by this FAR outweigh the possible benefits. People are just not thinking this through enough to see how badly it can go.

    !deleted120991,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    QuantumFilament,

    It's honestly great that you are able to do so. However, it's a mistake to believe that everyone has the same ability or opportunity.

    Personal information being scrubbed from the internet is not sufficient for everyone. Work traffic is monitored, and even aside from that, it only takes a coworker, family member, friend, stranger at the internet cafe, or abusive spouse glancing at a screen to catch a username - and after that, they can see everything that person agrees or disagrees with, likes or don't like.

    That was always a risk when it came to what someone actively posted. But having access to their voting history makes it substantially worse. It means that people can't even silently agree with or support posts that might come back to bite them.

    In addition, you can scrub all the personal information you want from the internet, but a unique combination of interests or opinions can dox you all the same to people who know you or who possess a larger database they can now filter.

    No matter how you slice it, eliminating anonymity only silences speech. Yes, it will silence some unwanted speech - but it's effects will extend far beyond that point.

    If you ask your friend from North Korea how their life is going, you'll get a repy of "I can't complain."

    IncognitoErgoSum,

    Same. Honestly, I think it's a bit rude to come in and demand that the system change to suit us. This isn't reddit.

    I'd be interested to see how well this actually works out. There's a lot less random "I disagree" downvoting on here, I've noticed. And the trouble with using downvotes as a disagree button is that they also affect visibility of a comment. Controversial comments shouldn't just be hidden away in the depths of the thread, because those can be where the more interesting ideas are. If somebody deserves to be downvoted (because they're trolling, posting low effort garbage, or being hateful), I don't think people will have too much issue downvoting them publicly.

    pasci_lei,
    pasci_lei avatar

    @Syo Indeed. I actually downvoted an NSFW post, and it appeared as boosted in my Profile. I can't even get rid of it, I don't know if this is a bug or a feature.

    klin,
    klin avatar

    There's a pull request to have your subscriptions to be private (https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/pulls/112) – hopefully that helps to some extent? i don't see these pull requests getting merged but probably because @ernest is slammed

    Shortcake,
    Shortcake avatar

    You can make subscriptions private already.
    Go to settings -> privacy and look for mag subs. On by default but you can turn it off

    klin,
    klin avatar

    sorry i misspoke, i meant for all new users for it to be off by default! since it’s on by default

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