/kbin meta

KuchiKopi, in PSA: Upvote is not an upvote like you are used to (like Reddit) - "Boost" is the Reddit Upvote
@KuchiKopi@lemmy.world avatar

Thanks! I'll upvote this for visibility.

Potato__Ninja,

Bruh, you got me laughing hard.

DONTBANTHISACCOUNT,

418 upvotes / 3 downvoted = You one funny Person*

I am brand new to KBIN n loving it so far

Thanks to OP I got me answer .. that's the first thing I didn't get;
"What's the diff between n upvote and boost ? "

ernest, in "Antiwoke" magazin on kbin.social posting bullshit like "how to end Wokeness" and "Time to reject the extrem trans lobby harming our society" How to report ? he is the moderator of that magazin.
ernest avatar

I just need a little more time. There will likely be a technical break announced tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. Along with the migration to new servers, we will be introducing new moderation tools that I am currently working on and testing (I had it planned for a bit later in my roadmap). Then, I will address your reports and handle them very seriously. I try my best to delete sensitive content, but with the current workload and ongoing relocation, it takes a lot of time. I am being extra cautious now. The regulations are quite general, and I would like to refine them together with you and do everything properly. For now, please make use of the option to block the magazine/author.

spicy_biscuits,
spicy_biscuits avatar

Thank you Ernest, we appreciate you ☺️

cacheson, (edited )
cacheson avatar

The regulations are quite general, and I would like to refine them together with you and do everything properly.

I have been wondering how instance-wide moderation will end up looking on kbin, once you've had a chance to get a team in place for that. While it is (I assume) a "generalist" instance, it's important to keep in mind that you can't please everyone. Trying to have too broad of an audience will just result in retaining those with a high tolerance for toxicity (usually highly toxic themselves), while everyone else leaves in favor of better-managed spaces.

Communities in general, and particularly on the internet, need to understand what their purpose is, and be proactive about filtering out those that are incompatible with that purpose. This doesn't mean judging those people as wrong, or "bad people", it just means recognizing that not everyone is going to get along, and that some level of group cohesion needs to be maintained.

atypicaloddity,

Agreed, that's part of my problem with generalist instances. They're so broad that they serve multiple communities with differing expectations, and it forces admins to take sides.

cacheson,
cacheson avatar

I think there is value in having both generalist and specialized instances, and the big landing spots for new users should probably strive to be more generalist. As you point out though, there are limits to how broad of an audience one can practically cater to.

Noki,
Noki avatar

thank you!

I appreciate all you do and your quick respond.

Multipile Things I noticed as a creater of this thread:
can I close comments ?
can I hide comments ?
can I pin a response?
can I quickly see from what server peope are interacting?

I am no coder but would love to support you with all the work that is done.

At least some of the costs can be taken of your shoulders:

https://www.buymeacoffee.com/kbin

Edit: Can you close this thread for me ?

!deleted100457,

deleted_by_author

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  • wahming,

    Oh go start your own malignant instance.

    garrettw87,
    garrettw87 avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • wahming, (edited )

    It's a bad attitude to tell an unapologetic transphobe to get lost?

    Edit: In case you didn't realise, that's the user this entire post is complaining about.

    garrettw87,
    garrettw87 avatar

    No, I didn’t realize that. Sorry.

    poo,
    poo avatar

    Kindly go spread your nazi bullshit somewhere else, thanks buck.

    ernest,
    ernest avatar

    All the things you mentioned are in the roadmap. However, we can either do it quickly and potentially encounter issues in a few weeks or months, or take a bit more time for a more thorough approach. I've decided to move away from playful prototyping. From now on, every change will be tested before it's approved for kbin.social - it's no longer just my code (https://lab2.kbin.pub/). I'd like to close this thread for you... but can we just agree not to respond in it anymore? ;p

    bane_killgrind,

    Thank you for being thorough

    Hobovision,
    Hobovision avatar

    I don't think closing threads is a great idea or in keeping with how this all works. I think it'd be nice to be able to mute a thread as an individual, but by its nature these discussions are open and shared with many instances. If we close it on kbin.social, other kbin instances, lemmy instances, and even places like mastodon and pixelfed could keep discussing, if I understand activity pub correctly.

    ernest,
    ernest avatar

    In such important tasks, I would like to engage in community-driven development. When I start planning these tasks, I will come to you with my whiteboard and sketch out the individual stages. Together, we will look for the advantages and disadvantages of such a solution, the weak and strong points. This is to jointly make a decision on whether the change makes sense on kbin.social but also in the perspective of the entire federation. It can be a great fun ;)

    Snapz,
    @Snapz@beehaw.org avatar

    Let's all agree that of its many issues, locking/deleting open threats to targeted minority groups and pro supremacist propaganda meant to hurt or influence vulnerable people was NOT a drawback of the Reddit experience.

    Yes, it's a difficult thing to enforce a subjective line of a basic standard of decency, but it's also what a society is and one of the main reasons we gather as people. The quality of a group is shown in how they accommodate the weakest and most vulnerable among them.

    If we aren't prioritizing a way to send this CHUD and people liked them to the hypothetical edge of town, to be sure they can't bombard the young person struggling with their gender identity with targeted hate at their weakest moment, then what are we doing here?

    Infiltrated_ad8271,
    Infiltrated_ad8271 avatar

    Could you clarify what you would do in cases like this? Censor based on misinterpretation of the clickbait headline, even if it does not contain hate content at all?

    TheDudeAbiding,
    TheDudeAbiding avatar

    That's the best bait you could come up with? Come on, you can do better.

    LoafyLemon,
    LoafyLemon avatar

    A friendly reminder; Please don't forget to take your time and step away from Kbin whenever you need a break. Your mental health is just as important, if not most important, for the project to succeed.

    albinanigans,
    albinanigans avatar

    You are correct.

    I'm bookmarking this page to return to later. Time to pull up some weeds!

    slicedcheesegremlin,
    slicedcheesegremlin avatar

    Everyone appreciates your effort here, ernest. Spez hasn't gotten 92 upvotes on a comment in years lmao despite Reddit having millions of users, it really shows how the difference.

    KTVX94, (edited )

    I joined kbin recently and I'm kind of concerned about the implications of this. I don't support those posts at all, but who gets to say what's worth banning and what not? Wouldn't that go against the decentralized nature of the site? Or is it the specific instance that magazine is on that has the authority to ban what's inside? How does all of this work?

    Edit: my bad, I got kbin and kbin.social mixed up. Noob mistake.

    lazy,

    @KTVX94

    While I kind of agree with you in being concerned about who gets to control what we see and don't see and the censorship aspect, there is also "the paradox of tolerance" to be considered and maybe in that light it is correct to not tolerate that subs intolerance.

    Regarding the Paradox of Tolerance:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

    MrMonkey,

    The Paradox of Tolerance is hot garbage:

    https://lemm.ee/comment/481170

    aleph,
    @aleph@lemm.ee avatar

    That link doesn't get anywhere close to showing why it is "hot garbage".

    Perhaps if you used your words to express a coherent argument, it would be more productive.

    Kierunkowy74,
    Kierunkowy74 avatar

    kbin.social administration controls only what is published on kbin.social, and what content from elsewhere kbin.social users can see. An user banned from kbin.social can make another account, on another site and start recreate there his banned community. kbin.social will be able to ban this remote user and remote community, but this restricts only what kbin.social users can see.

    Exactly the same for another /kbin or lemmy site - just replace the domain name accordingly.

    updawg,

    It actually is one of the strengths of the decentralized nature of the Fediverse. But there are still growing pains associated with it.

    harmonea,
    harmonea avatar

    Wouldn't that go against the decentralized nature of the site?

    No, it's exactly the opposite. The entire point of a decentralized federation is that while yes, the admin is in complete control of what content is allowed on his or her own instance, users who don't like what the admin is doing can just spin up their own new instances.

    Ernest can ban this type of content if he likes. Others can take the kbin software and make a new instance where it's welcome. Ernest can choose not to federate with that instance if they continue to push content that's against his rules, but Ernest doesn't have the power to dictate the direction for hundreds of millions of users' experience like a certain centralized site's mad CEO or admin board does.

    What would be against the nature of ActivityPub is if Ernest built something into the software to prevent it being used for types of content he doesn't like, even on other instances.

    WhiskyTangoFoxtrot,

    The Fediverse is decentralized. The individual instances are not. Decentralization means that there's no one person or organization with power over the entire network, but people absolutely can and should moderate their own instances. If you don't like the moderation policies of once instance you can move to another.

    livus,
    livus avatar

    Remember, kbin.social is just one instance of kbin. Ernest banning something on kbin.social does not mean banning it from the fediverse.

    It could pop up on another fediverse site or even another kbin site.

    HidingCat,

    Wow, more new servers! Looks like the growth has been really explosive. It wasn't that long ago you migrated Kbin to Fastly right?

    dannekrose, in PSA: Upvote is not an upvote like you are used to (like Reddit) - "Boost" is the Reddit Upvote
    @dannekrose@kilioa.org avatar

    @HamSwagwich

    This is a result of the original design. Kbin, up until just before the peak traffic hit, was using boosts as upvotes and favorites/likes were just below the post/thread (where boost sits now). Lemmy does it the way it is now (likes = upvotes) so Ernest changed it to match Lemmy behavior. But just as he changed it, he hadn’t changed the calculation for reputation to match when the server nearly melted down and he has to spend all his time just trying to keep the site alive by himself.

    garrettw87,
    garrettw87 avatar

    I see you’re on a different Kbin instance. Was this intended to be a threaded reply, out of curiosity? Because it shows up as a top-level comment on the post for me.

    Awwab,
    Awwab avatar

    He using an optional feature that lets you auto populate your reply box with the OPs username.

    garrettw87,
    garrettw87 avatar

    Yes, but my bigger point is that it’s not threaded as a reply to one of that user’s comments.

    Edit: Oops, nevermind. I saw their comments elsewhere down here but didn’t realize they were OP. Just one of the interface things on Kbin that needs improvement.

    Edit 2: I need to figure out how to do strikethrough text on here

    artillect, (edited )
    artillect avatar

    You can do strikethrough text ~~like this~~

    jdaxe,

    test

    Edit: doesn’t seem to render properly on jerboa lemmy client

    Dick_Justice,
    @Dick_Justice@lemmy.world avatar

    It looks good on the . 35 Jerboa

    sentient_loom,

    testing your assertion

    HamSwagwich,
    HamSwagwich avatar

    I'm viewing this from KBin and I don't see strikethrough.

    artillect,
    artillect avatar

    That's because I put that in a code block with backticks (`), here's what it looks like normally testing

    garrettw87,
    garrettw87 avatar

    How weird. When I do that, it doesn’t seem to work.

    Manticore, (edited )

    As a desktop kbin user, there's no strikethrough. Unsure as to why, if kbin is markdown. Strikethrough is considered advanced markdown formatting so I'm guessing kbin didn't include it. Now I'm curious to see how much common markdown is visible on kbin's desktop platform.

    Guide for those unfamiliar with markdown, so you can see what I'm doing. ✔ means I can see it on desktop kbin, ❌ means it remains unformatted (formatting characters remain).


    Horizontal rule ✔

    Testing MD (headings)

    • bullet points ✔
      • sub bullets (no tab on kbin; use 4 spaces) ✔
    • bold
    • emphasis
    • strikethrough
    • escaping characters
    • code (inline)

    quote ✔

    AnonymousLlama,
    AnonymousLlama avatar

    Oddly enough all of that looks perfectly fine on kbin mobile, even the strike through, I'll have a look at desktop later and if it's doesn't work

    artillect,
    artillect avatar

    I'm using kbin.social on desktop and it shows up fine for me, not sure what's going on on your instance

    AWildMimicAppears,
    AWildMimicAppears avatar

    i on kbin.social see the strikethrough fine

    Overarch3784,
    Overarch3784 avatar

    test

    Teon,
    Teon avatar

    test successful

    LinusWorks4Mo,
    LinusWorks4Mo avatar

    like this?

    Piecemakers3Dprints,
    @Piecemakers3Dprints@lemmy.world avatar

    Ideas for Edit 3: crate the Reddit avatar and start anew. 🥹

    iamhazel,
    @iamhazel@beehaw.org avatar

    Respect

    ernest, in Ernest Appreciation Post
    ernest avatar

    Wow ;) I'm incredibly lucky to have come across people like you. The authors of those posts are actually right - managing /kbin is a significant challenge nowadays. It requires extensive knowledge and experience to keep it under control. But also I've never hidden that fact - the information about it is placed at the very top of the repository's readme ;) However, as I mentioned, a lot is changing very quickly https://kbin.social/m/RedditMigration/t/122333/Fediverse-won-t-replace-Reddit-as-long-as-Lemmy-is-the#entry-comment-478779. And we're all working hard on it, to improve and automate as many things as possible. Thanks to all of you, I believe I can face it head-on, and together we can create a better place. Better internet. Not just this instance, but cooperation between platforms is the key here.

    Unfortunately, there are delays occurring again - I've decided that smooth website operation will be the priority this time. There are approximately 450k tasks waiting in the queue, and everything will be handled, but it will take some time. Today, we're also conducting final tests of the new infrastructure. It's taking a while because we're documenting templates that can later be used by others to create their own instances. I hope these are the last issues we have to endure ;)

    Thanks for everything.

    melroy,
    @melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    Hopefully migration to k8s will be soon and will go smooth!

    wagesj45,
    wagesj45 avatar

    Maybe it is time to start appointing some additional moderators to the biggest magazines.

    (Obligatory thank you for all that you've done for us!)

    sift,

    You're doing an incredible job.

    blanketswithsmallpox,
    blanketswithsmallpox avatar

    Thank you for the hard work and much love!

    Warped,
    Warped avatar

    Thanks for all the work you do, and I hope you find it rewarding. Most of all, look after yourself mentally and physically. The same goes for the whole team.

    The fact you are being transparent and honest about your work and plans for the future, is a huge bonus. Even admitting to setback and problems, is refreshing. I certainly don't expect a super human running the show, and everything to be perfect. If anything, that would make me question the place and avoid it. So many places talk rubbish, spewing out a word salad, but actually say nothing. Even worse, they say one thing and do the precise opposite. You come across as .... well, the total opposite of Spez and those running Deaditt.

    McBinary,
    McBinary avatar

    Thank you for putting the time into this. I'm really enjoying what you're creating here and I look forward to all it can become. Please pace yourself and find help where you can. Don't burn yourself out!

    PinaAkoda,
    PinaAkoda avatar

    Excited to see where /kbin goes from here! Thank you for the hard work you're putting into this!

    zazaserty,

    You are partaking in a true internet revolution man

    DrNeurohax,
    DrNeurohax avatar

    What you've done here is truly impressive. Reach out to the community when you need help and stay healthy. It's clear you know what you're doing and thanks for all the hard work!

    Chetzemoka,
    Chetzemoka avatar

    I just logged in and noticed the updated reputation counting system. Ernest is a man of his word, y'all. I know we're in good hands and look forward to seeing where things go in the future. Really appreciate all your hard work

    minnieo,
    minnieo avatar

    thank you for your hard work and transparency ernest ♡

    HeartyBeast,
    HeartyBeast avatar

    The status update about queue-size etc is really valuable. I wonder if it might be possible to have a little status space in the sidebar

    Kuujaku,
    Kuujaku avatar

    I'm a firm believer there can never be too many thanks you's given so: Thank you ernest and everyone working on this.
    I myself don't have much php experience other than one small site that i run, but i hope in the future i can too contribute to this project. But that said i do have somewhat more linux experience and if you or anyone here needs help with anything feel free to shoot me a message.

    EnglishMobster, (edited ) in Can some one explain how the microblog feature works.
    EnglishMobster avatar

    tl;dr: It's Mastodon. You can use Mastodon from Kbin.


    The Microblog tab shows posts from Kbin + Mastodon, just like how the Threads tab shows posts from Kbin + Lemmy. So if you have people you like on Mastodon, search for them using the little magnifying glass and then follow them from Kbin. Their posts will appear in the Microblog tab.

    Additionally, if people on Mastodon use a for something, it'll automatically be sorted in magazines that care about that hashtag. This means if you follow someone and that person uses a hashtag, their post will be placed in the "Microblog" tab of whatever magazine relates to that hashtag. This allows other people to discover the person you're following through shared interests.

    For example, the Internet Archive has a Mastodon account - @internetarchive. The Internet Archive used their Mastodon account to make a toot on Mastodon: https://mastodon.archive.org/@internetarchive/110611348840969515

    Because people are following the @internetarchive account from Kbin (which you can do by going here or by searching Kbin for their username, @internetarchive@mastodon.archive.org), that post was federated here to Kbin. Once it showed up, it appeared in the "Microblog" tab and got automatically organized into Kbin's @Futurology magazine because it used the hashtag : https://kbin.social/m/Futurology/p/565801/Exciting-news-Introducing-ARCH-Archives-Research-Compute-Hub-a

    Magazine moderators determine what hashtags they want included in their magazine - so @Futurology has said "We would like all posts with to show up in our microblog section". (You can go to @Futurology directly to see what hashtags the mod team thinks are relevant.)

    If no hashtags are used on a post (or none of them match any magazines), then it goes to the magazine @random.


    Wanna write a tweet/toot from right here on Kbin? Put it in a microblog. Use to organize it into a magazine, or use the dropdown on Kbin to pick a magazine manually.

    People can follow your Kbin profile from Mastodon. They'll see microblogs as a Mastodon toot, and "boosts" as basically Mastodon's version of retweets. People on Lemmy don't see boosts, but will see microblogs as a "normal" Lemmy post (since Lemmy doesn't have a "microblog" tab).

    For example. I made this post to the Microblog here on Kbin: https://kbin.social/m/Disneyland/p/510705

    I made it from the main "microblogs" tab, but it used the hashtag . @Disneyland listens to that hashtag, so Kbin automatically put it there: https://kbin.social/m/Disneyland/p/510705/Went-to-Disneyland-over-the-weekend-and-went-on-RunawayRailway

    If you go to Mastodon, you'll see it as a normal toot: https://sunny.garden/@EnglishMobster@kbin.social/110587107756032019

    If you go to Lemmy, you'll see that microblog as a Reddit-like post: https://lemmy.world/post/418494?scrollToComments=true

    (Note that it seems things which come from Mastodon don't get automatically sent to Lemmy - just microblogs from Kbin itself. That Internet Archive post I mentioned above doesn't seem to exist on Lemmy.world.)


    This behavior is one of the main reasons why I chose Kbin over Lemmy; I love that I can post once and have my stuff federated everywhere else super cleanly and easily. Lemmy is a bit more messy when it comes to Lemmy -> Mastodon and the devs aren't interested in changing how it works (I asked before I came over here).

    Ernest seems really invested in playing to the strengths of the fediverse, and the Kbin roadmap has him planning to integrate more fediverse services in the future. For example, Mobilizon support is planned, which is like a group calendar on the fediverse.

    If @Starwars wanted to have a watch party for a new episode of The Mandalorian, they could (theoretically) schedule an event on Mobilizon and have it federate to their magazine as a normal thread. Then they could (theoretically) pin the Mobilizon thread and use the comment section of the event as a Kbin megathread when the episode airs. See https://demo.mobilizon.org/ and imagine it being part of Kbin, just as Lemmy and Mastodon are "part of Kbin."

    Rabbithole,

    Wow, nice write-up.

    I've needed something with this level of detail for a couple of weeks or so now to get my head around exactly how this fits together.

    I knew the broad strokes but not the details.

    I'll be saving this, it's a great primer reference.

    buffaloseven,
    buffaloseven avatar

    This is a great explanation; I've been a Mastodon user about 6 months now and was having trouble figuring it all out. One question: is there a way on /kbin to see just the users I've clicked "follow" on? Or is it all doled out into magazines based on tags or random?

    EnglishMobster, (edited )
    EnglishMobster avatar

    Yeah - if you go to your profile and click on "following" you can see it. I believe you can also see other's lists who they follow - here's mine: https://kbin.social/u/EnglishMobster/following

    Part of who I follow are people I'd normally follow on Mastodon; another part are people who frequently use hashtags that I'm interested in (like ) and I want to see their stuff in magazines like @modeltrains.

    Note that if you follow a Kbin user, I believe you'll see posts they make across the fediverse in your "subscriptions" feed, even if you aren't subscribed to that magazine. I'm not sure if I'm a fan of that, but I suppose it makes sense. (People you follow who use Mastodon only seem to pop up in the "microblog" section.)

    stochastictrebuchet,
    stochastictrebuchet avatar

    This is excellent. Thank you! I genuinely didn’t get it until reading your reply. In fact, I was thinking of posting a meme along the lines of ‘I don’t understand how the microblog feature works and at this point I’m too afraid to ask’. No need anymore.

    Now all I DO need is a way to save/bookmark posts for future reference.

    Andjhostet,

    I use "Boost" for that purpose, right now. Agreed though, I would love a save feature.

    Kotking,
    @Kotking@mastodon.social avatar

    @EnglishMobster @Hondolor @internetarchive Right now Kbin have some issues so even if you post in Microblog under to it won't show up on Mastodon side but toot to magazine works as you mentioned. Here Example of my doing from Mastodon https://mastodon.social/tags/marknights and from kbin https://kbin.social/search?q=%23marknights . Soo it's great thing but we are early in development so people try to adapt but don't question why it's not working yet.

    EnglishMobster,
    EnglishMobster avatar

    Works fine for me? I even gave a link in my first post to a Kbin link working on Mastodon.

    Federation is a little delayed at the moment because of how many new users both Mastodon and Kbin are getting. But if you give it a few hours (usually 4-6) it'll sort itself out.

    Kotking,
    @Kotking@mastodon.social avatar

    @EnglishMobster @Hondolor @internetarchive Yeah You will see this message much later or I can reply from kbin.... meh. What I mean Mastodon won't pick up # something from Kbin, while Kbin will pick-up # something from Mastodon. If you follow the links you will see biiiig difference in search results.

    Andjhostet,

    This is a great explanation, thanks. Can I follow certain tags on the microblog side of things so they show up in my microblog feed? Right now, I only have microblogs directly associated with magazines I'm subscribed to.

    EnglishMobster,
    EnglishMobster avatar

    That part I don't think exists yet. Mastodon lets you do that, but I think Kbin's intended use case is that you follow magazines which are a collection of hashtags.

    ekjp,

    I think I get it but how does one follow only individuals (not microblog of magazines) ?

    Unrelated: Am I supposed to reply to everybody like this? The reply box is getting populated automatically.

    @EnglishMobster

    @modeltrains @random @Hondolor @Disneyland @ModelTrains @internetarchive @Futurology @Starwars

    EnglishMobster,
    EnglishMobster avatar

    You press the follow button on the individual then you go to the "Microblog" section of the homepage, I believe,

    Also, you don't need to ping everybody; you can delete it.

    Dantastic,

    Wow this has probably been one of the best write ups on those features I've seen. Thank you.

    Pagpag,

    That is confusing AF tbh. It’s aspects like this of the Fediverse that will continue to hamper adoption. If it’s confusing for tech savvy people, it will only be a barrier to entry. Little to no upfront explanation or tutorial is a problem.

    Maybe that’s for the best, but without casual users this place is not gonna get much bigger; even with the Reddit fuck up / migration catalyst.

    I might be here for the long-haul, but I see major gaps here. It’s unfortunate because this opportunity is somewhat wasted.

    Cyzaine,
    Cyzaine avatar

    I've been trying to explain it as...

    Imagine if your reddit comments could be read on instagram, twitter, and facebook automatically, and you could read everyone elses comments from reddit too! Not 100% accurate, but definitely a simpler explanation and gets people interested.

    eh,

    Something I want to point out is that kbin does not support authorized fetch yet, meaning there is a chunk of the fediverse (some Mastodon instances, all GoToSocial instances, and probably a few others) that it can't talk to. If you search for a Masto user or post and don't get any results this could be why.

    Prouvaire,
    Prouvaire avatar

    @EnglishMobster This is an amazing explanation - thank you, I learned a lot.

    Question: Magazines can pick up hashtags from toots/microblogs. What about the other way around? Ie can hashtags attached to magazine articles/links be picked up by Mastodon and other twitter-like applications? Ie, if I tag a magazine article with , will that article appear in the feed of any Mastodon user following ? I thought that's what the purpose of the hashtag field was when creating an article, but it doesn't seem to work, based on some experimenting that I've done.

    EnglishMobster,
    EnglishMobster avatar

    The other way around is supposed to work but is currently broken.

    Bear in mind that kbin.social (the first general-purpose English-language Kbin instance) was created in... May 2023. Our Benevolent God Ernest has only been working on Kbin seriously since January 2023.

    When I joined in June, it was mostly Ernest talking to himself, with a few other randos from Lemmy who were curious about this not-Lemmy thing. A couple weeks before I joined, Ernest was in here completely alone. Getting 100k people randomly show up a month after he released the first public alpha wasn't exactly in the cards, I don't think - so he's been putting out fires that come with "oh shit my little toy project now has thousands of people using it overnight".

    Prouvaire,
    Prouvaire avatar

    And here I thought the whole point of being a benevolent god was omnipotence. ;-)

    Thanks for clarifying. I wasn't sure if that functionality just isn't working yet (but now I'm confident that it will work down the line) or not an intended feature at all.

    EnglishMobster,
    EnglishMobster avatar

    "Omni" for a certain definition of "omni" after all.

    At a certain point you have to expect that he chooses to do it. After all, in Genesis (lmao autocorrect tried to suggest "Genshin Impact") creating the world took God 7 days (well, 6 days + 1 day to rest and admire). Surely someone omnipotent could've done it quicker - so it's either that or he simply chooses to take longer. ;)

    Whirlgirl9, in /kbin server update - or how the server didn't blow up
    Whirlgirl9 avatar

    hi all, you can buy ernest a cup of coffee aka give him some cash for his incredibly hard work! https://www.buymeacoffee.com/kbin

    RealM,
    RealM avatar

    What payment options are there? This seems to be only credit card.

    51,

    If I was Ernest I’d be scared stupid

    cordlessmodem,
    cordlessmodem avatar

    Know wut i mean, Vern?

    phantomslave,
    phantomslave avatar

    Done!

    FoodDude,

    Yes, done!

    GreenPlasticSushiGrass,
    GreenPlasticSushiGrass avatar

    Done! Keep up the good work!

    DrChickenbeer,
    DrChickenbeer avatar

    Yassss I'm supporter 666🤘

    BigVault,
    BigVault avatar

    🐐

    aeternum,

    Ernest should set up a patreon. I'd pay a monthly sub to him for this great website.

    It's hard ot believe it's only a month or two old.

    tbird83ii,

    100%

    freebrick,
    freebrick avatar

    Done! Thanks @ernest! This site is so cool!

    Upvotes_Kills_Birds,
    Upvotes_Kills_Birds avatar

    Easiest $15 I've spent this month. Let's keep Kbin going!

    I_Miss_Daniel,
    I_Miss_Daniel avatar

    That 100 Euro server also needs some coins inserted :)

    HipHoboHarold,
    HipHoboHarold avatar

    Unfortunately someone just tried to use my bank account the other day, so I'm waiting for a new card to come in, but I got this bookmarked for when I do. I think it's worth the cost of a cup of coffee every now and then.

    Rabbithole, (edited ) in What I think kbin needs to do to survive, and why I think it has a better chance than any other Reddit alternative I've seen yet.

    The truth is most internet communities which found and advertise themselves as an alternative to Reddit die.

    To be honest, there were damn good reasons why Voat, etc, died in a massive fire. The Reddit exoduses in question were from huge chunks of the userbase effectively being kicked out for being massive bastards/racists/bigots, etc. The communities that they spawned after leaving were absolutely horrific and nobody else on the internet wanted to go anywhere near them.

    The current exodus is made up of actually normal people (at least, normal enough), and the reason we're here isn't just because we're all joined by hatred (weeeelllll... maybe a hatred of u/Spez in a lot of cases, ha!), but because we're genuinely looking for a better forum-space than what's been available recently until now.

    Sure, there are similarities, we're still here because we find corporate control over the forum-space to be "oppressive" (just what an incel/racist would say, right?), but it's not because our views aren't tolerated there, it's just because we're really fucking tired of the cost of having somewhere to actually discuss things is that we're endlessly sold as a product, followed by our discussion area being destroyed by corporate greed. Over and over again.

    The reasons why this place is getting busy is fundamentally different than the reason why the previous migrations created places like Voat or Parler, etc. We're already in a massively better position due to that alone.

    Eventually, we need to get to the place where we’re creating unique meme formats

    I agree with what you're saying in general, but I really hope that all of the interesting discussion here doesn't eventually get buried by memes like back on Reddit. Memes can be fun and all, but sorting a lot of otherwise really great niche-subs by top of all time back there was often a case of finding nothing of value at all because there were 50 pages of fucking memes at the top of the list. Personal preference, of course.

    patchw3rk,
    patchw3rk avatar
    Rabbithole,

    Well, don't I just feel all special now. :D

    RMiddleton,
    RMiddleton avatar

    (at least, normal enough)
    Perfection!

    OpenStars,
    OpenStars avatar

    There are fascinating thoughts relevant to this that could be explored when people have the technical capacity to catch up the software even just to the submissions that have already been made to the kbin software.

    Like instead of just "top" and "hot" and "new" and such, there could be like "popular" vs. "niche", where niche is a different dimension of popularity. Otherwise, you get the same tired old cats & doggos that "we" (at least, as a community overall) really DO love to see, and that's...well you're never going to change people's minds, so good or bad, it simply is what it is, but it doesn't leave quite as much room to see anything ELSE that you ALSO want to see is the problem. But where there's a will there's a way!:-)

    I posted something relevant in https://kbin.social/m/tech/t/113196/An-older-article-that-is-taking-on-new-significance-considering (also duplicating it in https://kbin.social/m/BestOf/t/113715/The-Ennui-Engine-or-how-chasing-short-term-gratification-drains-our) if you are interested. It's a wall of words but beautifully constructed imho, I couldn't put it down b/c it really piqued my interest precisely on what I was thinking. But one down-side to the approach that it suggests is that it depends on good-faith actors to always act in the best interests of the community, which lets face it, is never going to happen. So it's high time that we found some OTHER solution that may be practically more viable. Ironically, the magazine https://kbin.social/m/bestof really does look like one solution to that problem: it gathers the nuggets from across the site and places them there to be read. But it also requires far too much effort, compared to just clicking the equivalent of an upvote or boost button, to be able to rank content by popularity according to some other measure than just "cool meme bro".

    I suppose you could also make an alt account, or even on your main, simply unsubscribe from every magazine like m/memes, or m/starwars, etc. By curating your experience, you can tailor it more to your liking. Although then if you visit those communities, you won't see any comments in those articles while still logged into that account, so it's kind-of a one-way ticket for it to disappear for you, not something that you can easily toggle back-and-forth depending on your mood, from one account.

    Sinnerman,

    I suppose you could also make an alt account, or even on your main, simply unsubscribe from every magazine like m/memes, or m/starwars, etc. By curating your experience, you can tailor it more to your liking.

    Wait, doesn't everybody do this? Currently, my lemmy account is my "meme" account and this, my kbin account, is my "discussion" account where I try to respond more thoughtfully to things. (but I do more "subscribing" than "unsubscribing")

    CurlyMoustache,
    CurlyMoustache avatar

    I got two accounts. One for "serious" stuff, and the second one just for fun/exploring

    OpenStars,
    OpenStars avatar

    I think a lot of people may be less technically proficient, and especially if they are trying to perfectly replicate the Reddit experience it just isn't there yet. There are lots of things possible to do - use multiple browsers, each logged in to a different account, or the same with apps, etc. But one issue I could foresee with that is that anytime you want to block something on one (like a magazine that speaks in a different language), you'd have to replicate that with the other.

    PabloDiscobar,
    PabloDiscobar avatar

    I agree with what you're saying in general, but I really hope that all of the interesting discussion here doesn't eventually get buried by memes like back on Reddit

    It will be filled with memes, just like reddit.

    That's the side effect of popularity. That's the "peanut gallery" effect.

    The first people joining any media platform do it out of interest. Because there is the technical hurdle to pass. That's why the first subs you see are always very technical. First were /programming/, /linux, hardware, /java, then /atheism. Stuff that people want to talk about. There was no /interestingasfuck in the first days of the previous media platform. These misc subs appeared the last.

    Now look at the avalanche of subs with zero posts we have. Theses subs are created for popularity, not by interest. They were created day one! Waiting for content. The writing is on the wall.

    The "peanut gallery" joins in for the popularity, not by interest. It is attracted by the gravity effect of other people. That's where the buzz is. And the "peanut gallery" outnumbers us 10 to 1 easily. Once the platform becomes popular is when you will say goodbye to it the same way you said goodbye to reddit. You left reddit like many others because you spend more time clicking the minimize button rather than reading interesting content.

    That's why we should not celebrate the rising numbers of accounts on kbin. Each more subscriber get us closer to the critical mass where the posts are not created out of interest but to increase reputation. You already know the process anyway, you've seen it in action too.

    BuffLettuce,
    BuffLettuce avatar
    Eventually, we need to get to the place where we’re creating unique meme formats
    

    I agree with what you're saying in general, but I really hope that all of the interesting discussion here doesn't eventually get buried by memes like back on Reddit. Memes can be fun and all, but sorting a lot of otherwise really great niche-subs by top of all time back there was often a case of finding nothing of value at all because there were 50 pages of fucking memes at the top of the list. Personal preference, of coarse


    It sounds alot like your telling people how they should talk and act, thats not how the internet or social media works. One of my favorite boards right now in the fediverse, especially after a long day is 196. I would rather see 100 posts from 196 then another post about leaving reddit. And i can do that by filtering and subbing. thats how this all works,

    Rabbithole, (edited )

    I'm not telling anyone to do anything, I'm stating my opinion about what I think works and why.

    Different things.

    And since you mentioned 196. It's still a decent example. I have 196 blocked because for me it's just noise that I don't want to see, because for me the content there has zero value.

    The fact that I can block it completely (for me), get the result that I want and yet have that not effect anyone else's use of it at all is literally a good thing.

    I personally find the entire sub worthless because of the almost total noise to signal ratio problems there, but that's personal preference on my part only, which I'm entitled to and merely means that I don't personally find the place useful. Having these sorts of things separate means that it works for everyone regardless of their preferences.

    Also, If I did still wish to see 196 occasionally, I can choose to either just go there, or unblock it temporarily, and nothing I'm doing effects anyone else at all.

    None of this is telling others what they're allowed to do, it's the opposite.

    196 is a practically random community anyway, it's chaos and there's no real way to "drown out" the content internally with memes or anything because the memes are just as much the content there as anything else could be.

    Roundcat,
    Roundcat avatar

    As someone who was originally part of the Voat migration, I was very skeptical of the move to fediverse precisely because of how Voat ended up shaping up to be. Hell, part of the reason I'm on kbin and not lemmy is because of the huge pro-Russian presence on lemmy.ml. Not all of us who migrated to Voat during those days were bigoted, or had actively hateful views towards certain groups of people, and early Voat wasn't a total right wing cesspool. I simply wanted to support a grassroots platform that promised to provide an alternative to what was then becoming a highly centralized platform. Ultimately the worst of the worst won out over the reasonable people who were there, and the myriad of technical failings on the web host's part made us regret being there, and it's ultimately why I abandoned the platform.

    I still fear that happening with kbin, but because of the different circumstances of the current migration, the nature of the fediverse, and the more diverse make up of people on this site, we are at least in less danger of the crazies running the show. My biggest fear is this site failing on the technological front, as there are still many aspects that feel unfinished, and with the recent situation on lemmy.world with user LMAO, there are still a lot of fundamental problems with the site that could be its downfall if not swiftly addressed.

    bttoddx,

    Yeah that's a fair point. For me it was the constant twitter screenshots/ tiktok reposts and repeated and shallow discussion of whatever bullshit fill in the blank political figure/ tech billionaire was doing that was killing the fun for me. I really think memes were more fun back in 2012-~2018 or so, mostly because there seemed to be more emphasis on novelty, but the endless soyjack reposts or dead tv show memes (cough the office) were definitely getting stale. I think it works better when memes are on hobby/niche subreddits because I think they invited discussion in the comments, but man are they useless on anything related to current events. Some subreddits did it really well though, places like noncredibledefense (that's the only one I can think of rn) really had a unique voice and were making new formats.

    Rabbithole,

    I found that, for me at least, memes on reddit were generally a negative aspect in most subs focussed on discussion.

    They worked really well though when you had the main sub basically ban memes, but spawn a secondary sub specifically for them.

    You get the best of both worlds there, where people can either take them or leave them, and the main sub doesn't end up with a massive noise to signal problem.

    RheingoldRiver,

    +1 I really want this, separate communities for memes and for content. I really enjoy spending time scrolling through memes, and I want that to exist somewhere - but not in the same place as the actual content. I hope that becomes the standard here, and also that people start making more meme-focused communities, cos I haven't seen many yet.

    Thassar,

    Yeah, /r/AnarchyChess wouldn’t be anywhere close to where it is now if memes were allowed on /r/chess. Splitting the memes and discussion apart is definitely the best way to go.

    Rabbithole,

    Anarchychess is a really great example of this, actually.

    Holy Hell.

    reverendz,

    @bttoddx

    @Rabbithole

    There was a fascinating point on fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu where it felt like a narrative type was getting created. New characters and kinds of story lines were popping up all over. It was kind of amazing.

    bttoddx,

    I have really fond memories of those old rage comics, they're part of what got me to make an account in the first place. I know they've grown corny as they've aged, but gee so have I. I think most places online can't really replicate the kind of communal rush to engage in the community, I think we've all grown a mite cynical.

    ihavenopeopleskills,
    ihavenopeopleskills avatar

    we're still here because we find corporate control over the forum-space to be "oppressive"

    It's bad when any corporation does that to anyone, regardless of respective points of view.

    jon, in /kbin project management costs, financing, future plans
    jon avatar

    @ernest, if Kbin starts making okay money, don't be afraid to give yourself a salary. It's important that you get to eat too.

    lemonflavoured,
    lemonflavoured avatar

    Hear, hear

    tjhart85,
    tjhart85 avatar

    I agree ... one of the greatest things I've seen in FOSS has been #HomeAssistant growing to the point that Nabu Casa can employee 25 people to work on the project (I have no idea if they're all full time or what, but I know at least a decent chunk are).

    If I spin up an instance, whether it stays afloat is between me and the people on my instance, but if we want the flagship to stay up and for our dev to have the time/willingness to make improvements, he needs to get paid. Even just project managing a project of this size is an immense undertaking and just accepting PR's from others can get to be crazy.

    I'd honestly prefer to not have to decide between "I want this to go to /kbin" or "Ernest is 'allowed' to buy a beer with this". I'd prefer to donate to something that ensures /Kbins needs are met for x amount of months and then the rest is split between employees of the org at whatever ratio is agreed upon. That's just my $.02 ... I really do appreciate that Ernest wants to be so careful with the fund though, I just don't want the /Kbin account to be sitting multi-thousands of dollars in the black while Ernest is struggling with basic subsistence.

    mmaramara,

    Yeah I donated specifically in hopes of helping ernest live off kbin

    tburkhol,

    As I’ve been lurking around the fediverse, running instances seems to be universally a hobby project, and it’s a little concerning. It kind of gives the impression of all being idealistic young kids embarrassed to ascribe value to their own time. I mean, you can do a lot with volunteer labor, especially if it’s a good ecosystem with appropriate recognition and gratitude, but the people are absolutely the most valuable parts of kbin.social, lemmy.world, etc, and they do have to eat, pay rent, go on vacation. It’s tough to respond to a 3am message about your instance being hacked if you have a job to be at four hours later, and leads to a whole different kind of burnout.

    It’s early days yet, but I hope the bigger instance teams get some input from people who’ve managed growth spurts in non-profits, and especially the transition to their first paid staff members (even when that staff member is the owner).

    Rabbithole,

    The whole internet was basically hobby projects that worked fine before big tech ate everything.

    It can totally work if the community's right.

    blightbow, (edited )
    blightbow avatar

    And if they are scoped realistically.

    The contraction we're seeing in the tech space this year is in large part a consequence of venture capitalist funding. A significant portion of tech sites were being funded at a loss, with the idea that profitability could be achieved after establishing a userbase. Rising interest rates pushed the VCs to put pressure on the companies they invested in: "no more free lunch, realize our gains now". This is why you see a rash of tech sites abruptly restructuring (Discord) or completely collapsing (gfycat). Reddit falls somewhere between the two, because it's likely they're seeking an IPO and they don't care about the fate of the website once they cash out. Twitter is ruled by an emperor with no clothes. Facebook can't make as much money as it did prior to the added government scrutiny, and the Zuck has been frantically trying to diversify his company these past few years.

    This is a long-winded way of saying that ernest deserves a lot of praise here for being realistic and up front with the operating costs of running the largest kbin instance. lemmy and kbin draw inspiration from the social media platforms that came before them, but can't budget for growth the same way that their predecessors did. It's not going to be cheap, they aren't going to get the free lunch that prior social media platforms had, and ernest needs to proceed with the well-being of both himself and his project in mind.

    Steeve,

    I saw my first beheading at the age of 12 on ebaums world. My buddy got targeted by a pedophile and sent child pornography on a messaging board. Half the sites were on angelfire or geocities and featured constant porn pop-ups. My email was absolutely filled with dick pill spam immediately. Newgrounds was a super popular site with kids my age and like half of it was porn games. There was this really annoying emoji banner ad on like every site that would constantly shout “OH MY GOD NO WAAYY” and “SAY SOMETHING” (seriously it happened so much I can still hear it).

    I don’t know that the internet “worked fine” lol. I mean, I think I turned out alright, but if my parents knew what I was seeing on the internet they never would’ve let me on the computer again.

    AnonymousLlama,
    AnonymousLlama avatar

    The good old wild west days

    sadreality,

    I mean... Nowadays we are just being tracked by bots fed and mega corp creeps. But Iguess it turned out... Alright

    Rabbithole,

    Aw stop, you're making me all nostalgic. :D

    Place was wild before they cleaned it up for business interests, for sure.

    melroy,
    @melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    Maybe this was also how the internet was intended.

    elscallr,
    elscallr avatar

    I'm not sure if you're joking but it's not that long that's how it used to be.

    melroy,
    @melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    @elscallr Well some history. IPv4 (and later IPv6 now) was meant to connect computers together, ideally without any router/modem in between but each device directly on the web (but ipv6 came too late). So we got an interconnected web.

    Later Tim Berners-Lee just want to have a human-readable documents to be linked together, with a distributed architecture that would see those documents stored on multiple servers, controlled by different people, and interconnected. I think the fediverse comes pretty close to this idea.

    I also think big companies and centralized solutions might make it easier for the user, but we also now know all the downsides of those solutions from Google, Meta, Amazon, Microsoft,... you are the product.

    @ernest @jon @tburkhol

    elscallr,
    elscallr avatar

    Ackshually yeah you're right, but I was simplifying.

    I'm 25 years older than you are, if you're the person in your pfp, and was there when you had to dial into the service you wanted to use. Not saying that to flex, just to say... I fucking know.

    melroy,
    @melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    Ah the good old BBS. Still running them.

    elscallr,
    elscallr avatar

    Real talk no shit?

    I didn't know that was still a thing. How would I find it these days?

    melroy,
    @melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    Yea! I'm not lying here.. BBS is still a thing. I love ENiGMA½: https://enigma-bbs.github.io/ .

    Source code: https://github.com/NuSkooler/enigma-bbs

    originalucifer,
    @originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com avatar

    Do you remember telix? The term emu... SALT was my first scripted language I really put to use

    melroy,
    @melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    All those DOS programs are awesome. For BBS I use SyncTERM: http://syncterm.bbsdev.net/

    tburkhol,

    ipv4, and the structures that came before it, were meant for academics and military commands to talk to each other on government funding. It was the definition of an elitist space and filled with idealistic kids and dilettantes who didn’t need to worry about rent. Nobody in the public would even know it existed for a decade.

    ernest, (edited ) in Loving the new updates, but what all has changed?
    ernest avatar

    Soon I will try to craft a post about whom exactly we owe these changes to. Today there's already too much excitement for one evening ;)

    spoiler: https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/activity

    For the next few hours, the website may be slow. We are working on a fix.

    artillect,
    artillect avatar

    Sweet, looking forward to it!

    akai, (edited )
    akai avatar

    Loving the new update @ernest!

    petejones,

    The iOS PWA logs out whenever I lock my screen. Is that something that will be fixed? I love kbin ty for all the work you do!

    AnonymousLlama,
    AnonymousLlama avatar

    I haven't seen that report before, if it's happening consistently with you can you add it as an issue on https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/issues

    We adjusted the manifest to add in the updated logos and shortcuts and it's working correctly on Android.

    Good to make a report in case there's some underlying issue

    petejones,

    Hmm. Interestingly, I just tried it again and it seems the issue may have fixed itself (probably affected by the other changes). If it does start again I'll make a report. Thanks!

    AnonymousLlama,
    AnonymousLlama avatar

    Great work guys, really happy with how many tweaks, bug fixes and be additions we got in. Super super keen to get the click to toggle comment functionally in (love it on mobile) along with some of the new bigger pieces

    RheingoldRiver,

    lol I got super confused cos I could've SWORN your PR that you're working on atm about user profiles was merged already, but after the update the 2nd display name is still there....so I was like, did anything change? when did the commits go up to? and then I realized this PR isn't merged yet and heavily 🤦‍♀️

    AnonymousLlama,
    AnonymousLlama avatar

    Hopefully soon! Adjusted styles on it so it doesn't overflow now which is great, waiting on it to get reviewed. Be good to get rid of all these extra parts of the system that aren't really helpful.

    melroy,
    @melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    Nice, I'm the second person after Ernest on this activity chart, since June 28.

    ernest,
    ernest avatar

    This code is just a small fraction of what you generally do, man ;)

    numbscroll,
    numbscroll avatar

    👀 that’s a lot of MRs and commits, wow… thank you!!

    Innti,

    Thanks for the updates Ernest, just fyi I had to delete the pwa I had for kbin and reinstall it to get the updates. Maybe have to adjust something in your manifest to auto update? I'll take a look at code later. Really happy so far tho, the screen lock is a life saver!!

    AnonymousLlama,
    AnonymousLlama avatar

    The manifest is a pain. Apparently even updating the theme_color should be enough to force chrome to download a new version and update the local client, but that can take anywhere from a few hours to a day or so 😰

    I've found deleting it and reinstalling thankfully works and now shows the fancy icon on Android

    juergen_hubert, in /kbin - a few quick announcements
    juergen_hubert avatar

    Since Ernest doesn't mention it himself, I would like to point out that he has a BuyMeACoffee account where you can donate to him to support him for all his hard work.

    crilen,

    Thanks I just bought him one =D

    Detry, (edited ) in Kbin noob here - Is it the intended experience to take 2 clicks to open an image? (one to open the thread, then another to open the image)
    Detry avatar

    .

    bruzie,

    TYSM!

    aeternum,

    TIL

    xuxebiko,

    TIL.
    Thanks :)

    mrnotoriousman,

    Excellent, can't believe I didn't see that icon there!

    cybersandwich,

    you have to be logged in to see that icon. I learned that as I was going to ask "what icon?! I dont see anything". I guess I was logged out, but when I logged in, the icon appeared.

    upforitbutnotdownforit, (edited )
    upforitbutnotdownforit avatar

    This is good to know. This needs to be the thing that happens when you click the actual picture. We shouldn't need to know this as a medium-advanced protip.

    Though I know they're still working their butts off just to keep the thing floating right now. Lots going on for a small team. One thing at a time!

    QuinceDaPence,

    Clicking thumbnails opened the image for me until they fixed the squished thumbnails issue so I'm thinking it's a bug from that.

    drumdonuttea,
    drumdonuttea avatar

    I've been here a couple weeks now and did not know that, thank you!

    !deleted120991,

    deleted_by_author

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  • drumdonuttea,
    drumdonuttea avatar

    @NumbersCanBeFun

    Thanks! I just uploaded the gif as my avatar to see if it would work and it did 🙂

    Niello, in Ernest Appreciation Post

    Feel free to buy him a coffee https://www.buymeacoffee.com/kbin

    FreeBooteR69,
    FreeBooteR69 avatar

    Just bought him another 3 coffees. Will have to make it a monthly thing.

    Overzeetop,
    Overzeetop avatar

    Dropped my nickel in the tin. Hopefully Ernest will bank this rush for future costs.

    Funny how it's easy to donate to a brilliantly run instance like this, but I wouldn't give spez a penny if he begged for it.

    Casmael,

    Yeah totally. On the other hand it’s be fun to give spez some pennies, one at a time at high velocity like

    ripcord,
    ripcord avatar

    Hopefully more people contribute, and on a regular basis. Even if everyone on average double the default amount, it's only like $7500 so far, which isn't that much in the scheme of things.

    zalack,
    zalack avatar

    I went to donate but didn't want to give my credit card number to a random website. I'd feel way better about it if there was a PayPal option.

    Prouvaire,
    Prouvaire avatar

    @zalack You may want to look into "disposable" credit card number services that some institutions offer. Eg, see https://www.online-tech-tips.com/cool-websites/5-reputable-disposable-credit-card-number-services/

    HeartyBeast,
    HeartyBeast avatar

    It supports ApplePay if that’s any use

    Rhaedas,
    Rhaedas avatar

    I'd give Spez some pennies, but I'd make sure they have lots of sealer on them. For old time's sake.

    lanbanger,

    Thanks, I've been looking for that all day. It's a measure of the man that it's so hard to find!