We can fire you and sever you from your livelihood at any time, for any or no reason, with zero notice. You must give us two weeks notice to find your replacement before even slightly impacting our bottom line. Repat after me: we are a family.
You can also be right without being an asshole, but unfortunately you can’t seem to vote for any decent right wing party that isn’t packaged with bigotry these days.
Ive bought a ‘sorry for your loss’ greeting card and write 'I quit ’ on the inside and hand it to my superior before leaving when they asked for my notice in writing. I already had another job, I didn’t need a reference and if I did I’d just have a friend lie for me. Fuck the bosses.
They just need that for their records, so next time you should get one of those giant office sized birthday or sympathy cards which won’t fit in any standard drawers. They can still scan it but it’s annoying.
If you’re feeling especially grumpy, sign a bristol board with 3" tall letters, or novelty cheque sized document (you can spend $2 for the bristol board, or like $50 on novelty stationary).
If it’s cardboard or paper, they would just fold it. Use something they can’t fold, like acrylic sheet or super brittle paper-like that would crumble or break if folded.
Oh that’s not true at with me. I’m mature enough to not make blanket statements or stereotypes such as that. But when I see kids sensationalizing shit, and manufacturing outrage for the sake of activism…… I call it out.
Years ago I received a promotion after just a month of starting and one dude started spreading rumors about me to get me fired, claiming he was more deserving of the position since he had been there longer. But he was only there because they were so short staffed that even someone such as himself who’d do a day’s worth of work over the course of a week couldn’t be fired without screwing up everybody else’s schedules. I referred some friends and once they were hired he was out the door. Hit me up on LinkedIn about a month later asking for a reference. There are some serious clowns out there.
lmao, but also maybe I’ve been lucky but I’ve never had a boss so bad I would do this to 'em. All of my job exits have been amicable and known about well in advance of my last day sans-shrug
I booked a vacation and took a photo of the schedule before leaving. During my vacation I got a call that I wasn’t at my shift. They had changed the schedule while I was gone and after it was originally posted. I hated that job, so when they threatened to write me up I said I wasn’t coming back.
That place had horrible management, horrible employee retention, and yelled at employees regularly.
While I doubt this actually happened, I’m still disturbed by everyone cheering it on absent any context that would make OP not look like a petulant child.
Quitting without notice doesn’t require justification, fuck the bosses, whatever.
But for all we know, this manager had bent over backwards to stand up for their employees, or cover for them. Maybe this employee took advantage of that and was miserable to his coworkers. Those are just as likely as anything else, given that no further information was provided.
At least invent a backstory how this manager was dogshit or abusive, or the company was awful. Make us want to believe that you’re not just someone with a persecution complex who’s quick to anger and lash out.
It is sad this is the defacto situation now, but it shouldn’t be that way. Managers should be there in interest of employees, to keep them on board, happy, and able to do their job efficiently… The company can’t run without workers. Too many companies have forgotten that. A manager should be a buffer between the employees and the “corporate machine” (or better yet get rid of the corporate machine, but ya know…).
They’re saying that just because you claim something ought to be a certain way it has no bearing in how it is, or ever was.
This is a common thing done by libs to support capitalism. They talk about how it “ought” to work, as if there is any way for capitalism to exist that is not inherently anti-social. Its a defense used by the cynical and well meaning alike, a deflection to ignore the reality of how these hierarchical relationships were always designed to be. Its similar to how libs say its not capitalism its “crony capitalism”
What you’re saying ought to be not only isn’t, but never was. And talking about how it “ought to be” isn’t a defense of reality
Ah, thanks for the explanation. I wasn’t trying to defend anything, but I suppose I see how including the “now” in my original comment might be construed in a “things used to be better” way. Wasn’t my intention, I have no idea how it used to be anyway.
Not going to edit the original though, for preservation of the context for this conversation.
Of course. Yeah i didn’t think you meant it as a hard defense of anything. Your comment seemed totally well intentioned. And if capitalism was capable of good and not an inherently anti-social system then it ought to be like you’re describing.
I think a lot of well intentioned people can get caught in that place of talking about how it ought to be instead of realizing why its not.
Maybe MY experience is limited, but what manager these days isn’t pulling double duty? They do 3/4 of the job time with duties no different than the people under them, and also have to do all the managing part when possible. This is how it’s been in the public service, retail, and customer service jobs I’ve worked.
Basically my experience. 90% of my job is unchanged, but I have to deal with extra emails and making sure there’s toilet paper. Granted, I’d never bring up 2 week notices. Companies will not ensure that for workers, so workers should make fun of those companies for suggesting that. Hell, my mom’s work asked if she’d give them 6 months noticed because they were understaffed and the other staff couldn’t do their jobs and she laughed at her boss and told them they wouldn’t do that for her.
Pointing out the lack of context and the tantrum like behavior isn’t nuance. The fact that you think otherwise makes me concerned for your ability to safely cross the street.
Tantrum behavior like doing mass layoffs in response to a labor strike, a la UPS?
Of course. When workers stand up for their rational self interest, it’s a tantrum. When bosses retaliate en masse against workers standing up for their rational self interest, that’s just business 101.
Read your comment again, and then try and demonstrate the extrapolative capability of an adult crow, human child, or large language model. Go on, I believe in you.
Alright chucklefuck, pointing out that one whiney dick is throwing a tantrum has no logical bearing on the labor movement writ large, or my support of it.
Think a little slower, friend. Like you said, “hypothetical” boss - his whole point was that from the meme we don’t actually know anything about the boss. You psychic?
If you see this and your immediate reaction is to chastise some hypothetical tantrum then you might just be a bootlicker. At least own up to it instead of deflecting with arrogant ableism
It’s not licking boots to acknowledge that managers are people.
Every evil organization in history has had good people working for it. You hating them is yet another way the “above” people divide the “lower” people.
That being said, absolutely assume the manager is on the side of the company. This is a meme, we can’t even prove if this shit is real. Fuck the company.
Nah. Fuck em. If they were a decent manager they’d thank them for the notice they did get because they know that many managers punish people for giving notice.
How many Lemmy users do you think have never worked retail customer facing jobs, or food service? I’m betting it’s a minority, but I could be wrong.
Either way, whatever internal compass you use to determine another user’s job history needs some tuning because I’ve worked in plenty of service industry jobs.
Y’all are pretty tech savvy around here. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to find out that the majority of Lemmy users skipped the retail/CS/hospitality jobs in favor of entry level IT/ tech jobs.
All 2 years of it I see, my man you gotta open your eyes then. The amount of pettiness in that industry is insane. Your ignorance of it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist
My man… just because you’ve seen it doesn’t mean everyone else has or that it’s common. Maybe you’ve just worked a shitty places. But that doesn’t mean it’s industry standard.
At least in the US, it seems pretty standard. Never worked retail myself, but everyone I know has hated it. Certainly a lot would like to imagine doing this kind of thing (but few actually would).
I can only say that my experiences in the field has been completely fine- and this includes working for Disney. And I can say that at 52 years old- I’ve been in the business for a long time. Never had a problem with anyone, and no one has had a problem with me.
If a person has a gripe with an entire industry- maybe the problem is with the person and not the industry.
I’m this has more to do with the US, than the particular profession.
I’m so used to workers rights, that getting a glimpse into how things are over there feels dystopian. Laws everyone would want, and benefitting everyone, except perhaps exploitative businesses, are “controversial”.
It’s very difficult to even fire someone here, and even if you did, 3 months to find something else is the norm. More often than not, you’d also be paid without doing much work during that time. If you resign, the company also has 3 months to figure something out.
Why… Would you not want that kind of predictability be the norm? It’s not a net benefit to be able to resign or be fired on the spot. The only way that makes any sense is to just focus on one of the sides, at the convenient time. Bleh.
Setting aside hefty political corruption in the US, and media owned private interests that would make the Pinkertons shed a tear of joy… hm, and aside for a very peculiar election system that not only goes for the worst 2-party approach, but even has set it up in multiple ways in order to allow the minority of the two, to win… ah… I see your point.
I’m curious about the relationship to managers in different industries. Fast food compared to programming. Warehouse/stacking managers have always treated the workers like idiots where I’ve been at. IT support depended on the company. Mail sorting was pretty chill as long as the work got done.
I’d be more inclined to see your point, except that the manager in question said “each job requires 2 weeks notice” like he was indignant that he didn’t get something he deserved.
That’s not only not true at all, it’s active manipulation on their part in a hail Mary attempt to have their work covered for enough time to look for another employee.
It may be unprofessional to quit without notice, but it’s really unprofessional to present the act of quitting as requiring 2 weeks’ notice, particularly in a place that might also allow the employer to fire someone for any reason at any time with no notice.
it’s really unprofessional to present the act of quitting as requiring 2 weeks’ notice
If it’s part of the contract then it’s not unprofessional at all to bring up the terms that you’ve agreed on. My job requires a month’s notice and it wouldn’t be unprofessional for my employer to bring that up if I tried to quit on the spot.
That being said, I don’t live in a place with “at-will employment”, which is a fucking travesty and should never have been allowed in the first place.
It’s not typically written into the contract for most jobs I’ve seen, but it’s still considered very unprofessional to leave without giving the company time to find a replacement. It doesn’t just mess with the company or your boss; it messes with your coworkers, too, who now have to pick up the slack.
Basically, while it’s not written into your contract, it’s still considered socially unacceptable not to give a two week notice barring any unusual circumstances.
It’s always been in my contracts, a month’s notice is the norm here. I’ve never broken that but I’ve also been fortunate enough to work at places where work and life are balanced. I wouldn’t have wanted to disrupt the work for my colleagues and my managers have always shown their respect for me to the point that I want to work with them instead of against them. I don’t think I’ll ever work for an employer that puts the company over the wellbeing of their employees. I’ve seen what being a real team means. People cooperate freely and go the extra mile for eachother if necessary and cut massive amounts of slack to anybody in the team that’s having a tough time and needs to focus on their life outside of work for a bit.
That said I won’t ever get any bonuses or make large amounts of money in my career either but that’s not what I’m after if it would mean putting work before life.
If it’s considered ‘unprofessional’ then that is a raging misconception. At will contracts also mess wirh the company and your coworkers, demanding a courtesy you won’t give your workers is horseshit.
It’s not unprofessional at all; at worst, it’s discourteous, because notice of departure has zero to do with your professional conduct, it’s a courtesy. You can professionally quit on the spot, look:
“Due to a change of personal circumstances, I will be resigning immediately, effective at the end of the day. I will work with you to make this transition as smooth as possible within that timeframe, but it is not negotiable.”
I can understand going either way on that because they’re semantically similar. However, I personally draw a distinction here because I’d much more readily accept being considered discourteous at work than unprofessional.
Mine tend to ball out to a month’s notice (on either side) for every year employed at the company…but i do business critical shit. I do not get the impression this is what is in the text conversation depicted.
I’d say the reply from the boss is enough to justify that response. The boss is chiding him for not putting in a 2 weeks notice, calling him unprofessional. From this one interaction you can make a pretty good assumption as to the quality of the boss. The only proper response to someone quitting is either a counter offer or a farewell, not a guilt trip.
I am obviously not a lawyer, but I’m pretty sure you can sue for breach of contract if it was in the employment contract and it causes actual damages. This random site agrees with me: mannlawyers.com/…/can-my-employer-sue-me-for-quit…
You can absolutely fire someone after they quit if notice is in your contract. Employee gives notice, doesn’t show up for two weeks, and is fired with cause.
I don’t know where you all work. But over here it is standard even for ‘unqualified’ work to have at least 1 month notice. For both sides. This gives employers and employees some time to find something new.
I'm speaking for the United States, minus Montana (if I recall correctly).
Neither employers nor employees are required to give notice. However, it is standard practice that employers do not give notice and employees do (usually two weeks).
When I worked at a callcenter they offered a new contract trading an agreement to give 2 weeks notice for a better paid vacation plan, with the consequence of failing to give notice being that the any unpaid pay periods would be paid at the minimum legal wage (which is of course a very pitiful wage I might add)
A good rule of thumb is to never, ever burn bridges with past managers. Keep your dignity and remain professional. You never know when you’ll need them as a reference.
In the US, that’s straight up illegal unless they write you a reference separately. When the hiring company calls they can only give the legal answers.
Also, you could just write that letter yourself and have a friend be your ex boss. The rules are meaningless and the points are made up.
It is not illegal to call and talk about you with a reference that you gave them - that’s the whole point of a reference. Separately, yes, calling a former boss may only get the prospective employer answers like “they worked here and are eligible for rehire”, but that’s usually a human resources policy to avoid a costly, but ultimately winnable if you only tell the truth, lawsuit. It’s not illegal for a former boss to shit on you if you were shitty, and it happens all the time at smaller firms, in small industries, or small towns.
Why in the name of Murphy would you give them a bad reference?
This is explicitly an issue with employment verification and there are very clear legal boundaries there. Your revenge fantasy does not apply to reality.
What on earth? I don’t know why you’re trying to make me out like I have a revenge fantasy. Did you read anything I wrote?
Again, what you’re saying is wrong. It’s not illegal. Show me a law where telling the truth about someone is illegal. It’s not illegal in employment verification, and it’s definitely not illegal for a reference which is what you were talking about about, and does not need to be some separate written document. As I wrote, it is a common HR policy to not give feedback to avoid a costly but ultimately winnable lawsuit, always in the case of truth and often in the case of opinions: findlaw.com/…/is-a-former-employer-s-bad-referenc….
It’s a common misconception, so totally understandable, but if you’re going to be very wrong don’t be a dick about it.
Because you seem hellbent on finding a way around the law. HR departments don’t do more than dates, rehire eligibility, and character of termination specifically because of legal liability.
So who am I going to believe, the guy saying you can shit talk whoever you want, or the professionals who do this every day in a legally safe manner?
A former manager of mine has been trying to convince me to return anytime she sees me since I left almost 2 years ago, offering me better pay and a position much higher on the foodchain. She also respects why I left (I had bigger ambitions that they couldn’t meet at the time) and respects my reason that I haven’t taken her up on that offer (that place only has really garbage benefits)
One of my wife’s friends babysits for the director of IT at a large company 2 hours away and apparently I can get an interview with them if I just say the word.
Being professional and staying on good terms is not just for the employer, but it can also be a safety net to fall back on if things go sideways. Being able to reach out to contacts and say “Hey, I’m unexpectedly looking for a job now, do you have any openings?” is a very good place to be, plus sharing openings with former colleagues is a good way to help eachother out.
Fuckin managers will fire you with 0 notice, but that’s life and “at will employment”. You fire the business and you have to give 2 weeks because business run “lean” and “at will” is only supposed to be used by the business.
Well, there’s risk and reward in business, and more risk in running lean. Managers can always structure their departments to not be impacted by an inopportune departure. After all, people can get hit by a bus leaving their house in the morning.
Hell, if an employee is that critical, maybe they should be put under an employment contract with set terms and compensation agreement. You know, like most directors have.
Dunno why you’re getting blasted, you’re right. What good is chastising the employee at that stage going to do if it isn’t meant as a guilt trip? Does anyone really think the manager had his best interest in mind and is trying to look out for his future? Or is it more likely he is trying to keep shifts covered for 2 more weeks so productivity doesn’t completely tank? I’d be completely okay with a simple “ok” or thumbs up emoji compared to a lecture.
Pretty much this. The manager, from one text, comes across as a holier than thou, “think of your coworkers!! We’re family!!” Kind of person. One text can reveal that much. The “good luck” doesn’t come across as sincere, since it follows that whining. Dude wants shifts covered for 2 weeks, he can hire someone else, do it himself , or fix whatever problems (probably money) made the person leave in the first place. Or they’re a middle manager and get off on being overly focused on the “rules”. Or he’s just a low end shift manager, in which case why lick the boot that hard my dude?
Not really… It is unprofessional. That doesn’t mean it’s necessarily wrong, just that it’s not always unreasonable for a manager to point that out. Again, we lack any other context for the situation.
I would add, that he also followed it up with a good luck and didn’t drag it out. So, based off what limited evidence we have available, he seems like the more reasonable person in this situation.
Have you never had a good manager and a bad coworker?
When companies firing people for base reasons, i.e. reaching quarterly targets, is also universally seen as unprofessional and shunned as such, we can talk again. Until then, they deserve exactly as much courtesy as they are willing to give.
That’s some pretty wild stuff you have to make up just because you have no good response. That’s not even a straw man but a straw giant space monster. Sheesh dude …
As someone that might or might not have engaged in that sort of bold move cotton exit strategies literally mirroring the behavior I had repeatedly received from my corporate overlords let me say that it feels good on the way up.
In the US there is no notice period for firing in “at-will” states (which is all except Montana). It goes both directions though, there is no notice period when quitting. So chances are, if the OP is in the US, the boss was full of it.
Well, they can but that particular employment method was abolished in the US (though not made illegal, which is an interesting distinction that definitely hasn’t ever been abused before) with an obvious (to the people who made it) exception for prisoners.
Eh, if you’re really done and just refuse to do anything they say, they’ll have you discharged inside a month. The couple times I saw it happen it actually looked like a relief on both sides. Nobody bothered the guy leaving anymore, and he would willingly do office chores again for the last 3 or 4 weeks.
Of course you don’t get all of your benefits, you can never come back, and the re-enlistment codes are regularly leaked so any HR will know how you left the second they see your discharge form.
When it gets nasty and takes months is when the leadership wants someone gone and the soldier insists on trying to to stay.
Depends on the country. Here in the Netherlands you usually have a 1 month notice period. This is the default, you can put a different notice period in the employment contract but it’s not common. Regardless, the notice period for the employer is always double that of the employee.
2 weeks notice is a pretty much universal standard when quitting. Layoffs usually gives with severance pay, so unless you pay severance to the employer when quitting, giving a courtesy of possible doesn’t seem like a lot to ask.
But severance pay is almost always part of consideration in a “you can’t sue us” contract. So the company is not just giving you pay in lieu of notice, they’re buying your rights away.
I’ve also seen plenty of corporations that punish you when you give two weeks notice by immediately barring you from working and you end up losing two weeks pay by planning on being considerate.
Honestly if you’re the one person maintaining a system you don’t even have to sabotage, just the act of leaving itself is sabotage, and that you most definitely cannot be sued for
We need to push for more protections like required notice and/or undermine at-will employment in various ways. I’m sick of corps having us over a barrel in every way.
I keep saying we want to be careful of that, though. At-will employment also means you are free to leave whenever. If you had to give a month’s notice to some of these toxic AF work-places, it could feel like torture. Imagine if you’re being personally harassed or bullied already, and now they have you over a barrel for another month. No, thank you. Imperfect though it may be, it’s better for us in the long run, at least in the current climate.
I live in the Netherlands which has much stronger workplace protections than USA (which I’m assuming this image is from). It’s still normal and maybe required to give notice, usually 30 days, but they also can’t fire you without cause and severance.
Notices are logical from a business perspective, they just should be extended both ways.
I also live in the Netherlands, and because I have worked at my current job quite long already, they have a notice-period of 4 months when they want to fire me, and I have 1 month notice-period when I want to quit.
To be really honest, that is almost absurd for the employer.
That sounds very much like something that the Netherlands might be interested in. If you are a “highly qualified foreigner” (Master-degree counts) you may even see very substantial tax-benefits being given to you by the government (for the first five years 30% of your income won’t be taxed).
(German citizen living in the Netherlands for work.)
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