Android Community Closure Update

We have received numerous reports from users about the closure of the c/android community. While we fully support the original community owners’ decision to move to another instance, it will eventually be necessary to open up the community on Lemmy.world. The beauty of the fediverse is that multiple communities on the same subject can exist in different instances. However, if you can no longer moderate a community on Lemmy for any reason, it is important to pass it on to individuals who are willing and able to do so.

To ensure the best interests of our instance members, it is necessary to establish boundaries. Holding onto a community name cannot be a permanent arrangement. It’s important to consider our users’ ongoing interest in the community if they wish it to continue. While we acknowledge the objective of consolidating communities, current community members ultimately decide whether they wish to join the new community at lemdro.id.

To ensure a smooth transition, we will keep the community locked for another week, providing ample time to inform the active user base about the move to the new instance at lemmy.world/c/android@lemdro.id.

seeCseas,

I totally agree with this! It’s going to prevent a whole bunch of cybersquatting.

V4uban,

That’s great, thank you for this.

AlmightySnoo, (edited )
@AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

Thank you admins, but it’s only fair if c/android members are informed of this, as the current sticky notice there is, in the light of this thread, totally misleading as it gives the impression that 1- the community “officially” moved (not true, only one mod “officially” moved, but he wanted to also prevent those who didn’t want to follow him from participating on !android altogether) and 2- that it’s permanently closed (not true, again in the light of this announcement). The current sticky is just false.

Current members must explicitly know that the community will reopen in a week (though I disagree that this “waiting period” is even necessary, since that moderator already forced more than one week on us) and that if they want to stay they just have to wait. This announcement needs to be a sticky thread in !android too.

MichelleG,
@MichelleG@lemmy.world avatar

Thank you. A message will be posted soon in the Android community. Good catch to make sure everyone is informed.

asparagus9001,

If you came to Lemmy to play the reddit games of landrushing on community names and running it as your own forever, and doing whatever you want with it regardless of what anyone else wants, I say GFY. Bye Felicia

BitingChaos,
@BitingChaos@lemmy.world avatar

Thank you!

SomeoneElse,

Can someone do a ELI5/outoftheloop type summary for me? Why did the mods leave? Where did they go?

Jz5678910,

The mods from r/Android started their own Lemmy instance called lemdro.id. Among the communities they opened was c/Android. There was already an Android community on Lemmy.world the was active with 15k+ subscribers.

The mods decided to merge with the communities and move over to lemdro.id in the hope to fight fragmentation. They locked the Lemmy.world instance to keep as an archive. And now we’re here.

I’ll add the post they made in bit.

Edit: lemmy.world/post/1117612

BaroqueInMind,
BaroqueInMind avatar

You forgot to mention that they literally asked no one here if that's what we wanted and arbitrarily closed the community like a Reddit mod would typically do and the whole fucking reason we all came here to avoid in the first place.

Synthead,

Anyone can be a moderator. Only a small handful of people can be good moderators. And a small handful of those good moderators act selflessly for the benefit of communities instead of making the communities their pet.

Jz5678910,

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. I wasn’t happy about it either, but I was just answering objectively.

AlmightySnoo,
@AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

Thank you, the mods in question explicitly doubled down on the fact that the lemmy.world members deserve no say in the matter and that Reddit’s holy “moderator discretion” needs to be respected on lemmy.world too. Everyone needs to understand that it wasn’t a community that “moved”, it was a single moderator who decided to move. You just cannot call it a “merger” in that case no matter what obscene power moves Reddit allowed in the past.

TheSpookiestUser,
@TheSpookiestUser@lemmy.world avatar

Didn’t the android mod team here have multiple mods? If only one decided to move then why didn’t the others keep the community open?

AlmightySnoo, (edited )
@AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

There were only two mods, and only one decided that, since he himself admitted explicitly that it was his decision alone to forcibly close the community.

ijeff,

Both of the moderators supported the move to consolidate and their announcement thread was widely upvoted.

AlmightySnoo, (edited )
@AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

I wouldn’t call around 400 upvotes, with almost 100 downvotes, as “widely upvoted” when other threads easily got thousands, after forcibly closing the community and leaving only that thread up there. If anything, the fact that after almost 2 weeks of you obsessing over the upvotes, since you brought it up multiple times, it got such a pathetic upvote count despite shutting down any critique by closing the community is another blow to you. You’re grasping at straws and you should give up defending this shameless power hunger move that is characteristic of Reddit. Your move was forced by one single mod who himself admitted it, end of the story.

Since you love obsessing over the upvote counts, the comments denouncing your power hunger on Reddit when you decided to ignore android@lemmy.world and create a duplicate community in the beginning got thousands of upvotes, but since they were inconvenient you deleted them all.

Also, still to satisfy your obsession over upvotes, this thread got 200 upvotes, almost no downvote, in only 2 days. We all can see why 1- no one really wants to go back to powertripping Reddit mods and 2- why you needed to force the closure, as you knew no one would voluntarily join you anyway.

It’s really bad taste to still intervene here with an alt after what you and the other mod did. What you did and how you still defend it to this day is just shameless.

TheSpookiestUser,
@TheSpookiestUser@lemmy.world avatar

You know what else is characteristic of Reddit?

Immediately launching into assuming any moderator is horrible and organizing some kind of conspiracy, not ever acknowledging that people could be acting for a reason other than malice.

AlmightySnoo, (edited )
@AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

Malice or not, the fact that Reddit mod supporters keep dodging is that the closure was literally forced by one single mod.

You’re grasping at straws to defend the undefendable here. c/android should have never been closed by one mod. The lemmy.world android community should have never been forced by one single mod to become a redirection page to another community on a completely different instance that’s mostly moderated by Reddit moderators who kept deleting comments with thousands of upvotes on r/Android that called them out when they decided to create a duplicate community instead of joining this instance’s community.

I’m calling out the hypocrisy of jeff who seems to obsess over the pathetic 400 upvotes and calls it being “widely upvoted”. Him still intervening to still spread his lie is insulting, especially given that he’s the one who kept deleting the highly upvoted comments on r/Android.

ijeff,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6e3cf114-0863-4aa9-8648-14a13ae83a8c.jpeg

It’s 453 upvotes and 86 downvotes. I wouldn’t personally consider 84% support pathetic.

You may also notice that both mods supported the move (as both Mike and Devgard joined !android).

AlmightySnoo,
@AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

I didn’t even exaggerate, you really obsess over that upvote count. How is that even considered “widely upvoted” please when you needed almost two weeks and forcibly closing down the community to achieve that pathetic number?

TheSpookiestUser,
@TheSpookiestUser@lemmy.world avatar

There were only two mods, if you’re right, and considering the community didn’t stay open tells me that either it was unanimous between the two of them or one of them was inactive.

I don’t even think what they did was the right way to go about it, but you’re just trying to pin these random internet strangers with all sorts of shit for no reason other than to incite what’s basically a flamewar.

AlmightySnoo, (edited )
@AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

I’m simply correcting someone, who’s obviously involved in this Reddit power move, who to this day instead of reading the room in this comment section, still keeps spreading the lie that it was a popular move since their sticky thread was “widely upvoted” (obviously false) while omitting 1- the forced nature of the move, 2- that members weren’t given any other choice, 3- the ones likely to vote anyway are those who are in favor since members weren’t told that they could change anything by downvoting, and indeed in the one week and a half of the forces closure only about 400 members unsubscribed which coincides with the number of upvotes he’s seemingly proud of (as it is the second time he brings this argument up), and finally 4- all the critical comments with thousands of upvotes that he deleted on r/android.

TheSpookiestUser,
@TheSpookiestUser@lemmy.world avatar

and finally 4- all the critical comments with thousands of upvotes that he deleted on r/android.

Ah, so this is the sticking point. You know one (or multiple) of the moderators of the new community when they modded on Reddit and they are bad mods?

If this is true, lead with this and forget all the other stuff. This is the only thing that matters.

AlmightySnoo,
@AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

Are you serious? The guy tried for the second time to use upvotes, and obviously lied since that is clearly not “widely upvoted”, of a forced sticky thread to justify a forced move, so I’m merely calling him out on deleting r/android comments that were critical of their move to make a duplicate community since he’s the one to suggest that upvotes matter.

I don’t even know the mod, the comments were not deleted when they were made so I didn’t care that day. It is only after the forced closure that I went again to the thread where r/Android members called the mods out on their move to create a duplicate community and found that the highly upvotes ones, including mine (had more than 400 upvotes, since jeff is again suggesting that 400 is enough to call something “widely upvoted”) were all deleted.

AlmightySnoo, (edited )
@AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

Also only the creator can close a community on a Lemmy instance, and he said himself that he made the decision alone. The other mod was obviously onboard since he followed him to the new community, but seemingly only after the fact as he was clearly unaware since a few hours before the announcement he tried to create some activity with sticky threads on c/android.

And even if the two made the decision together, again false by the words of the community creator himself, that doesn’t make it any more legitimate, which is why I’m calling this “oh but it’s two instead of one” argument grasping at straws.

ijeff,

deleted_by_author

    •
    AlmightySnoo, (edited )
    @AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

    You mean his statement, the community creator explicitly said himself that it was his decision alone. Whether it was in response to me or not doesn’t matter. Unless you’re saying he lied. It’s just too convenient to say “oh but he was just angry, he certainly didn’t mean it”. It’s consistent with the forced move itself.

    I’m still calling your astroturf and your doubling-down on the same thread soft-bullying as the immediate effect it had was to trigger the mod’s imposter syndrome and feel not official enough, but it doesn’t matter what I call it and you obviously don’t like the words bullying or even soft-bullying, as whether they decide to fall victim of imposter syndrome or not is their right and it ultimately doesn’t matter. That’s the territory of “why”.

    What matters here is the “what”. And what happened is one mod (or two since you seem to suggest that two instead of one makes things much less ugly) forcibly closed a community on lemmy.world.

    it still stands that 1- your moderator forced a community to close, 2- you’re still lying about popular support, 3- you seem to suggest that 400 upvotes make your forced move legitimate, 4- you’re for the second time suggesting that lemmy.world admins are Spez-like since they are reopening the community which you shamelessly closed and they already removed your mods, and 5- you’re accusing me of trying to “take control” when you’re the one who in fact achieved that, in fact you’re clearly projecting.

    Relating to the last point, yes I volunteered and I still volunteer to reopen c/android, but since you can’t think of any other motive than power I will also promise to leave (or not even join if I’m not needed) after recruiting a team of mods to keep c/android running again.

    Unlike you, I don’t parrot “moderator discretion” or “look 400 guys upvoted us after two weeks of forcing that community to close and stickying a thread where the most likely ones to vote anyway are those in support of the move”, and unlike you I do not consider moderator status to be some power status, but apparently you do since you immediately assumed that I “wanted” to take control of the community. That’s false, I wanted to reopen a community that you shamelessly unilaterally closed. Whether the reopening is done by me or someone else doesn’t matter.

    SomeoneElse,

    Thank you for that!

    Jz5678910,

    No problem 👍

    Synthead,

    The mods decided to merge with the communities and move over to lemdro.id in the hope to fight fragmentation.

    I get the fragmentation thing, but it’s Lemmy. Fragmentation is kind of the point. I think closing the community, while something the creators can freely choose to do (as long as the instance owner is okay with it), it’s not a very democratic decision. Make the other instance better and give users the right to choose.

    TheSpookiestUser,
    @TheSpookiestUser@lemmy.world avatar

    The reasonable solution. Understanding that locking it forever would be depriving this instance of a once active community that people have volunteered to mod, but respecting that the original point of that mod team doing so was to try and consolidate instead of creating a competing community.

    My only concern now is that some of the people actively trying to escalate the whole situation into an attack on the previous mod team may be the ones running the place. I hope that isn’t the case.

    LazaroFilm,
    @LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

    This is why users need the ability to group multiple communities into supergroups

    M_Reimer, (edited )

    IMHO it would be better to allow to post to multiple groups at once.

    At least with Jerboa this is not possible. And I often have links that I would like to discuss in different groups.

    BanjosKazoo,

    Disagreed. I hate cross posts because people just end up posting the link to every community they can convince themselves it’s tangentially related to. If it’s important enough to discuss in a different group, people can take the time to go post it manually.

    TheSpookiestUser,
    @TheSpookiestUser@lemmy.world avatar

    I have been deliberately crossposting patchnotes / update announcements for games between a larger general gaming community and the individual communities for each game. I am doing this in the hopes more people that play these games realize there’s a community for them on Lemmy and join, so they become more active.

    flustered,

    that or move communities to other instances.

    PeleSpirit,

    I really like that idea, looking for each sub with the same topic but a different name is annoying. Still love this place though.

    pexavc,

    Would it be alright if a client app handled this logic? Where you can sort communities organize communities in a folder like interface to customize your “all” feed?

    LazaroFilm,
    @LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s would be okay, but then it means that you would have to commit to browsing on a single app instead of having your preferences carry over if it was implemented within Lemmy itself.

    pexavc,

    That is true. I am immediately thinking that creating an export of that data of some kind would be possible. But, it would require lemmy to understand this map or other apps as well. There could be a standard created of profile preferences in the future hopefully.

    LazaroFilm,
    @LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes. All it has to do is store a JSON with a standard format.

    LazaroFilm,
    @LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes. All it has to do is store a JSON with a standard format.

    dmmeyournudes,

    It can’t be on the users. The issue is that 2 communities can have different things going on, different rules, different events. The best way is to some how make hosting the same community across different instances by the same mods possible. Mirrored communities should be a goal, but tbh, it’s just not a real issue like the scalability, general useability, and how the hot page is not a hot page, it’s a rising page.

    MargotRobbie,
    @MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

    Respectfully disagree. For example, !reddit, !reddit, and !redditMigration are three communities on similar topic with different mod teams, and the culture of each community is a bit different from each other.

    So, for big event like this one:

    lemmy.world/post/1442053

    You can access multiple posts across different instances on the same topic with one click using the crosspost links on Lemmy so it’s no less convenient than one megathread, and each post will have different conversations from each other, so it’s easier on the individual mod teams for the respective communities as well.

    Whereas on reddit this would have been a huge monolithic megathread and would be very hard to manage without a huge mod team.

    That’s the advantage of decentralization.

    dmmeyournudes,

    The entire point of link aggregators like reddit and the threadiverse is to centralize discussion and curation. These sites lose utility if you have many different places for the exact same content.

    luis123456,

    @dmmeyournudes @MargotRobbie True. And I like it more.

    MargotRobbie,
    @MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

    Then I’m not quite sure why you would expect centralization on an explicitly decentralized network of forums on the Fediverse.

    dmmeyournudes,

    i expect centralization in the way communities work, not in the way instances work. if you want to host a link aggregator, you’re building a platform to centralize discussion and content, if lemmy does not work towards that goal of uniting communities across instances, it will fail because no one wants to join 20 small communities to get the same information 20 times over in their feed. this is antithetical to the utility of a link aggregator forum like reddit or digg, and that’s what lemmy is trying to be.

    MargotRobbie,
    @MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

    Then would you like to go ask the good people at lemdro.id to close their Apple community and centralize it over here please?

    It doesn’t make sense to me to do so, but if you want it, more power to you mate.

    LazaroFilm,
    @LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

    What I would want is for both communities to exist in parallel, and users can have the ability to have a grouped view of both communities together in a single scroll page. Then posts can still be addressed to one or another instance and would need to follow the local group rules.

    Basically folders of favorites that you can view in your home page.

    dmmeyournudes,

    i don’t think you understand what centalizing communities but not the instances means. the communities need to exist within lemmy, not within the instance. tieing communities to instances means for a given community there are dozens of copies, none of witch are integrated unless the users use a crossposting feature that no one understands and doesn’t make any sense from a moderation standpoint. users and communities need to be unattached to an instance so they can become less isolated from the people who want to be apart of that community but use a specific instance for whatever reason.

    roguetrick,

    What you're asking for is fundamentally impossible within activitypub. You can't have something that's both acting like a hashtag and is moderated by it's "owners." It's better to just realize that certain cream will rise to the top in time and then fall down as it is poorly moderated. Not everybody federates with everybody else.

    dmmeyournudes,

    What you’re asking for is fundamentally impossible

    if there is 1 thing i know about programing, its that nothing is impossible, the developers just haven’t done it yet. there are not enough users on this platform for the users to start tribalizing and excluding people from using the service. all it does is reduce the user base on an already small and not user friendly site.

    LazaroFilm,
    @LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m not talking about each page to merge together but rather a way for viewers to group them into a single scroll area kinda like you favorites home page. Then if you want to post, you still would need to chose where you want it published and you would still need to abide to the rules and moderators choices. Each post can still be labeled with its origin.

    Basically having multiple folders of favorites would be a different way of insert what I’m talking about.

    MargotRobbie,
    @MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, like some kind of custom subscription group.

    uhauljoe,
    @uhauljoe@lemmy.world avatar

    What you describe as the “issue” is the entire point of lemmy and decentralizing and all that.

    once lemmy starts dictating “oh you have to change things in this community in this instance to match this instance” and “everything has to follow one master set of rules” they become reddit.

    honestly the best way to solve your issue would just be multireddits, if you wanna see content from both communities just add it to a multilem or whatever they end up calling it.

    dmmeyournudes,

    Lemmy is a link aggregator. Decentralization is the opposite of how link aggregators work.

    Buddahriffic,

    They are two different things.

    It’s like hangout spots. People congregate there. You can have a setup where everyone goes in to one place and from there they head to different rooms in that place and all rooms have their own rules and the place itself has its rules. If there’s a single place, that’s centralized. If there’s a collection of those places each with their own set of rules and rooms, that’s decentralized.

    They each have their pros and cons (centralized makes it easier for people to find specific communities since they are all rooms in the same place, but means that you’re SOL if you don’t like the way that place is run), but both systems allow people (or links) to congregate.

    dmmeyournudes,

    its an internet forum, not a bar. you’re here to talk about specific topics, and when you don’t have enough people to do anything more than post memes or tech articles on 20 subs total, there isn’t a reason to divide any specific community.

    MimicJar,

    The best way is to somehow make hosting the same community across different instances by the same mods possible.

    That is absolutely what you don’t want.

    Let’s pretend you used to use Reddit. Let’s say you wanted to talk/read news about the latest video games. Luckily “gaming” exists. It’s a default subreddit (or it was at one point). That must be the best place to go.

    Except… It wasn’t really. Some folks thought they could do better and thus “games” was born. So now we have “gaming” and “games”, two places to talk/read about video games.

    Except… They weren’t really. While those subs had nobel modding goals it wasn’t long before they too had issues. No, only “truegaming” could really be the best community.

    So now you have three communities, run by three different mod teams (or at least three different rule sets), “gaming”, “games” and “truegaming”. Which is the real community? Which is the best community? If you want to start a new community what word are you going to use? “RealGames”? “BestGaming”? “GamingGames”?

    Look at this example. Android. I like the Android mods, but what if I didn’t? Or what if I think I can do better? Should I make /c/Androids or /c/TrueAndroid?

    The nice thing about the Fediverse is that we can all federate with one another but no one is overly in charge.

    Like the former Reddit Android mod team? Go sub to them in their instance. Don’t like the Android sub on this instance? Don’t subscribe. Think the instance admins have made a horribly wrong decision? Move to a new instance. (For the record I’m fine with the decision they’ve all made.)

    Unlike Reddit there isn’t one big stupid CEO in charge. Instead there are a lot of small stupid admins in charge (and I do appreciate their work).

    Now, as for solutions, yes discoverabilty for Lemmy should be improved. If I find one Android community it should be easy to find others, and not just communities named “Android”, but anything related across the Fediverse.

    This isn’t all going to be solved in a day. Communities will fragment. Instances will fall over. New instances will rise. It’s a little messy, but we’ll figure it out.

    dmmeyournudes,

    no. decentralized communities die. no one wants to join the smaller communities, and if they do, they’re either an outcast or a contrarian, neither of witch are productive to any community. unless the niche communities start to enable communities to centralize across instances, everyone will join 1 mega instance, and everything else will be left to die just like what happens with every social media format.

    MimicJar,

    I mean Mastodon has thousands of instances, many with thousands of active users and generally they all talk to each other.

    The Linux community is wide open. Distros rise and fall. There was a time when everything was Red Hat based. Then Ubuntu came along and taught a whole new generation. Smaller distros like Gentoo got bigger. New distros like Arch appeared. And then some of us realized we actually liked just plain Debian all along. (Sorry Slackware users, I didn’t follow your journey). This didn’t happen because everyone chose the exact same thing.

    Sure Linux distos have a commonality, same kernel (but configured differently) and same applications (but packaged differently), but we have that with Lemmy too. Lemmy speaks ActivityPub. Kbin speaks ActivityPub. (Also Mastodon). But Lemmy and Kbin have different UIs. In fact some Lemmy’s have different UIs.

    And sure, a community can’t be zero people talking. But it also can’t be a billion people talking. And yes with Lemmy being newer it’s going to be easier to fragment. With only a few thousand active users per instance I understand the desire to stick together. But remember your not trapped on your own instance. Maybe we need two Android communities. Maybe ten. Maybe just one. I already know we apparently can support a shit ton of meme communities.

    dmmeyournudes,

    You’re fundamentally not understanding the issue here. Mastodon isn’t the same kind of content as lemmy, a link aggregator and forum. Microbloging doesn’t have user curation, it has algorithmic curation. The only control you have over your feed on a site like mastodon, threads, or Twitter is by who you follow and they just throw all of those posts into a endless list filled with disorganized nonsense. You don’t need to centralize communities there because there is no community to centralize. It’s like millions of people are in a room and they’re all shouting at once. Link agregators are the exact opposite of this. There is direct democratic curation superseded by moderation to keep communities focused and topical. You follow communities that will curate relevat content to their state topic and if those communities are not centralized you can’t interact with them as effectively if they were. There is no reason for any individual game or media franchise to be divided across more than just 1 page unless the amount of topics and content they can produce necessitates dividing specific facets of that community to not cannibalize the limited space the sites format allows for. Some games force esports content into it’s own subreddit and this severally hampers the visibility of that game on Reddit, or they divide out the meme posts because the sub is so filled with regular postings and discussion that they would get in the way and lose nothing by being segregated, unlike esports. Franchises like star wars don’t have posts about Jedi survivor or the old republic on their main sub because those games generate their own content that most people who don’t play those games do not care about. So yes, there are some reasons to divide communities, but there is not a strong reason to make more than 1 community for virtually anything on a site this small. There should only be 1 place to talk about Android here, for the time being, because there are simply not enough people to sustain more than that regardless of what your feeling on decentralizing communities are.

    Decentralizing any community into small groups is exactly how you kill a community. People want to feel like they’re apart of a large group and that they can interact with everyone who shares that interest. It helps that community grow and by pushing them apart you’re essentially forcing them to choose what tribe they want to join and inviting tribalism when in reality they’re all the exact same people who we are dividing because we lack the technical capabilities to unite them.

    MimicJar,

    You can be a member of as many Android communities as you want. You don’t have to pick just one. The community isn’t divided. They can even share 90% of the same people.

    There is no harm in giving each instance a shot at running the best Android community. If all but one sucks, then that one will naturally be the one people stay subscribed to.

    dmmeyournudes,

    They can even share 90% of the same people.

    why do these 2 communities exist if 90% of their users are exactly the same? this isn’t a real scenario, this doesn’t happen. everyone congregates to the biggest group.

    MimicJar,

    I’m currently subscribed to gaming/games on lemmy.world, sh.itjust.works and kbin.social.

    Each of those seems to be an active community.

    If users from one choose to all congregate to one, that’s fine. But if all three want to exist, that’s great too.

    Some people post, some people comment and some people lurk. Yes, 90% of posters across three communities probably doesn’t make sense. But commenters? Lurkers? That’s probably fine.

    dmmeyournudes,

    yeah, enjoy seeing 3 copies of the same trailers and articles in your feed LOL.

    MimicJar,

    Lol, that’s totally fine.

    When a new game comes out I want to read the comments from “gaming”, all versions of it, and I want to read the comments from “gamedevs” and I want to read the comments from “newgamelovers”.

    Maybe Lemmy can one day provide a “similar discussions” feature to highlight other communities.

    dmmeyournudes,

    You’re using a link agregator. This is the opposite of what they are supposed to do.

    MimicJar,

    I’m using Lemmy, it can do whatever it needs to do.

    Also it’s not just a link aggregator. It’s comments too. “Lemmy is a selfhosted social link aggregation and discussion platform.”

    Google News is a link aggregator. I have it, I use it sometimes, but it’s just links. It’s kinda boring but fine.

    I’m not here for just the links. I’m here for the community. Each community. As large or as small as they want to be. I want the short answer. I want the long answer. I want the right answer. I want the wrong answer.

    dmmeyournudes,

    There will be no community if defederation and decentralized communities continue to hamper growth and diversity in content.

    MimicJar,

    I understand your defederation concerns. That is really what is going to cause problems. Last I checked behaw.org defederated from lemmy.world, that’s a genuine cause for concern. However I’m not worried about that long term.

    I think Lemmy as a whole was just chilling and then a Reddit Exodus happened. If you owned an ice cream shop and suddenly school is cancelled you’re going to freak out a bit.

    I think as things settle we’re all going to federate again. If we’re all alone then all of your initial concerns are completely valid. That isn’t to say that defederation is a bad thing. It makes sense sometimes. Even if different instances have different rules we have to share a general set of guidelines not to be a dick. Where that line is drawn is going to be complicated.

    Luckily, most people are pretty cool. The loudest are usually assholes, but people as a whole are generally cool.

    Decentralized however, that’s ok. That’s the crux of my argument. A hundred isolated communities isn’t going to work (at the current scale) but a few here and there is going to be fine. Shit Reddit did this all the time. Going back to I think one of my first posts I outlined how one community grew from a dissatisfaction from the existing community. The only real difference is that instead of changing from “gaming” to “games” they now change from “!ganing” to “!gaming”. It’s a couple extra characters, it’s not a big deal.

    theyawner,
    @theyawner@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t see a problem with the example you presented. The three gaming-oriented communities you listed all have their own cultures that have essentially become tied with their branding, each with their own appeal. It would be more confusing to have three gaming communities all using the same name but with different approaches on how they manage their communities. At that point, you’ll have to create a guide on which instances would have the type of community that aligns more with your preferences.

    MimicJar,

    I guess I’d say, without looking it up or visiting them, what is the difference between the Reddit communities gaming, games and truegaming?

    If you have to look it up or visit them that’s fine, but if you have to look it up then there is no real harm in asking folks to do the same on Lemmy.

    We don’t need a guide. Each has a sidebar, read it if you want. Each has content. Sub to the ones that look good, unsub from those that don’t.

    theyawner,
    @theyawner@lemmy.world avatar

    The branding/naming convention alone would at least imply that there are differences in the communities (or there would be no reason why they were there in the first place). Each had their own philosophies on what type of gaming-related content they want to talk about. You don’t even have to read the sidebar of each sub to judge the type of community as the content association alone can be easily spotted even with a cursory look at /r/all.

    But what happens when each gaming community in each Lemmy instance is largely similar, resulting to just the same type of content discussed ad naseum? People would just eventually converge on where the majority goes. The only reason why I would personally subscribe to similarly-named communities is if each community has a unique take that I both find to my taste.

    Buddahriffic,

    I think having a guide or map to help navigate the different versions of each community is probably the most essential part to do this successfully. Now that I think of it, it might have even been one of the main causes of frustration at Reddit. It would have contributed to mod vs user tension when a user joined the wrong version of a community, like if they wanted to joke around more in a community that wanted serious discussion or vice versa.

    I think a place with such a guide, plus the ability to discuss/evaluate/review mod teams and instances themselves (admins and all) would be helpful for the fediverse. Especially if admins pay attention and act on the mod team reviews because ultimately, I think communities should be about the communities themselves and not the person who happened to first register that community.

    theyawner, (edited )
    @theyawner@lemmy.world avatar

    I think having a guide or map to help navigate the different versions of each community is probably the most essential part to do this successfully.

    Having distinct branding through the community name would also help. Otherwise, you’d have to create a guide where the instance would be the main branding indicator for the type of community:

    Ex.

    • games@games.games - general games community
    • games@lemmy.whatever - memes about gaming
    • games@serious.talks - serious talk about games

    Note that the actual instances can’t even be relied upon to be a good indicator on what type of community is hosted there.

    Now that I think of it, it might have even been one of the main causes of frustration at Reddit. It would have contributed to mod vs user tension when a user joined the wrong version of a community, like if they wanted to joke around more in a community that wanted serious discussion or vice versa.

    Most of the time I see it as the user’s fault. People like to think of mods as mere janitors. But they’re also ultimately the one with power to steer the conversation to maintain the culture they want to foster (see the excellent /r/AskHistorians who are often vilified by the people who don’t follow their standards). Otherwise you’d have have multiple communities that are essentially just the same thing.

    I think a place with such a guide, plus the ability to discuss/evaluate/review mod teams and instances themselves (admins and all) would be helpful for the fediverse. Especially if admins pay attention and act on the mod team reviews because ultimately, I think communities should be about the communities themselves and not the person who happened to first register that community.

    I’m not sure if I’m in complete agreement. I for one don’t like how a community can be owned by just one person. But I also don’t believe the community itself can be trusted to uphold a culture as the subscribers grow and change over the years. An admin can’t always be in the know to make the right decision for the community and may even make it worse.

    mysoulishome,
    @mysoulishome@lemmy.world avatar

    Fair and reasonable

    Izzy,
    @Izzy@lemmy.world avatar

    Will the old group of moderators be removed and replaced?

    Rottcodd,
    Rottcodd avatar

    The old mods have already left - the problem was that they locked the lemmy.world community behind them on the way out.

    I know when this all started, there were some people who volunteered to reopen the community and mod it, and contacted the admin to that end. I assume this announcement is the resolution of that - when the additional week is up, the original lemmy.world community will reopen with the new mods.

    ThatGirlKylie,

    So if the new community is still federated with lemmy.world, if they reopen this instance does that not make things overwrite each other or would they have to defederate themselves from lemmy.world?

    Sorry if this is a dumb question. New to the fediverse and lemmy in general.

    IvidappAvidapp,
    @IvidappAvidapp@mastodon.social avatar

    @ThatGirlKylie @Rottcodd And I'm a Mastodon noob commenting on everything like 😂 😅

    Rottcodd,
    Rottcodd avatar

    No - they're entirely separate.

    Basically the way it works is that you never really leave the instance you're on. When you access a community hosted on that instance, you're of course on that instance. But when you access a community that's hosted on another instance, you're actially accessing a mirror of that community that's hosted on your own instance.

    So for example, from your point of view, coming in through lemmy.world, the two entirely separate communities are android@lemmy.world and android@lemdro.id@lemmy.world. The first one is the lemmy.world community snd the second one is a local mirror of the entirely separate lemdro.id community.

    Hope that makes sense ..

    ThatGirlKylie,

    Kind of, I still have a lot to learn.

    So lemmy.ml and lemmy.world are two separate instances right? And then the communities on those instances are like subreddits for lack of better terms?

    ChemicalRascal,
    ChemicalRascal avatar

    Yes, essentially.

    nosut,
    @nosut@lemmy.world avatar

    Think of it like email.

    The email provider is the instance:

    Google, Yahoo, outlook, etc

    The community/user is your email address:

    Android@gmail, Android@yahoo

    Because they are different providers you can have the same name since it’s the only one on that provider.

    luis123456,

    @nosut @ThatGirlKylie I am on both lemmy.world and mastodon.social and it works like a charm

    PriorProject,

    A subreddit can be uniquely identified like this /r/games. Once that name is taken, no other sub can have it.

    A Lemmy community is identified like this: !games. Notice it has a name part and a server part, both are necessary to uniquely identify the community. !games is a different community with different mods and different posts/comments (unless someone crosspost, but then it’s still two different posts with mostly the same text inside). You can mostly access any community on any server from your account, mostly irrespective of what server your account is on.

    But similarly named communities on different servers are different communities. They are analogous to /r/DnD vs /r/dndnext. Similar topic, different subs, same with those Lemmy communities.

    Rottcodd,
    Rottcodd avatar

    Basically, yes. And it's not too much of a stretch to think of lemmy.world and lemmy.ml as two separate Reddits that share with each other, so anyone on either one can access stuff on both.

    So two communities that both have the same name but are on different instances are actually two entirely separate places since they're on two entirely separate "Reddits". One is blahblahblah@lemmy.world and the other is blahblahblah@lemmy.ml.

    orientalsniper,

    Yeah:

    Instances = Servers

    Communities /c/ = Subreddits /r/

    Tangent5280,

    Tangentially related doubt -

    Given two communities A@hostone and B@hosttwo, and a user U1 registered on the hostone instance and a user U2 registered on the hosttwo instance; imagine one day hostone goes down - server error, too many users, whatever.

    Can U1 access B@hosttwo? Can U2 access B@hosttwo? I’m assuming that neither of the users can access communities on hostone on account of it being down.

    Thanks in advance.

    Rottcodd,
    Rottcodd avatar

    User U1 couldn't access anything, since their account is at hostone and hostone is down. But they could log in with a different account on a different instance (or just lurk without logging in) and be fine.

    User U2 would be almost entirely unaffected, since User U2 is on hosttwo, which is unaffected. B@hosttwo would be entirely untouched, and User U2 would even still be able to access A@hostone. Sort of.

    All along, when User U2 accessed A@hostone, they were never actually accessing A@hostone directly - they were actually accessing a mirror that's hosted on hosttwo - A@hostone@hosttwo. So the only effect of hostone bring down is that A@hostone@hosttwo wouldn't get any new content from A@hostone (or from any of the other federated mirrors - A@hostone@hostthree or A@hostone@hostfour and so on). But all of the content that was already at A@hostone@hosttwo would still be there and could (presumably) still be accessed. New content could (presumably) even be added there, but since it wouldn't be able to sync back up with hostone, it wouldn't show up anywhere else - it would just be at A@hostone@hosttwo.

    And a note on those (presumably)s - internally, the lemmy/kbin/whatever software would recognize that it was failing in its attempts to sync with hostone, and likely that it was failing to even contact hostone. I don't know how the assorted pieces of software - kbin or lemmy or mastodon or whatever - handle that. If they ignored it and just kept trying to sync with hostone and failing, then User U2 might not ever even be aware of the fact that hostone is down, since even A@hostone@hosttwo would look the same - it just wouldn't be syncing with hostone, so wouldn't be getting any new content from there or from any of the other federated versions of A@hostone, and User U2 might eventually notice that.

    It's also possible though that the software could be set up to tell User U2 that hostone was offline, and it might even be set up so that it would refuse to accept new content at A@hostone@hosttwo until it could get back to syncing content with hostone. I don't know why it would be done that way, but it could.

    Tangent5280,

    That’s brilliant, thanks for the in-depth answer.

    AlmightySnoo,
    @AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

    They are currently removed, which is good as they can’t do any further damage.

    DocMcStuffin,
    @DocMcStuffin@lemmy.world avatar

    If they’re not interested in moderating a community here then that’s really the only solution.

    Izzy, (edited )
    @Izzy@lemmy.world avatar

    I agree. They publicly declared their intent to abandon the community. Which it seems they have already done. There is no purpose in keeping them around as moderators if they no longer have any intent in moderating. The only logical conclusion is to find new mods.

    mysoulishome,
    @mysoulishome@lemmy.world avatar

    Naw this place isn’t run by corporatist pig faced savages

    Izzy,
    @Izzy@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m not sure what that means.

    mysoulishome,
    @mysoulishome@lemmy.world avatar

    Was a joke about Reddit admins but I guess it landed wrong. I was describing spez

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