That’s called cooking. And we usually call it meat instead of dead animal, because it’s a specific part of the dead animal that’s tasty and nutritive once cooked.
You never had a butterflied chicken thigh? Or even a leg of lamb? The meat isnt even thickness, you gotta cook it in a way that cooks it through while keeping the thinner parts edible.
Where is the disrespect for the dead animal? I don't get it. It just looks like somebody's put overly emotive text on an image of somebody preparing food in a very fancy manner?
It’s hilarious how lemmy users generally think of themselves as left wing but refuse to admit that veganism is both morally and sustainably the better option
But you see, this time it’s inconvenient to me personally, so I will defend my habits and fight for them to never change even if it means suffering to others, even if the evidence that is harmful are obvious and out there. What do you mean “definition of conservatism”?
Morals, that’s religion right there, and when a religion starts from the default of assuming it’s the only right answer, it’s a shit religion, no matter what other arguments are involved.
Morals is not religion. If anything I vehemently dispute religion claiming any ownership of morals. See Plato on morals for more details. But I would say that highest of morals is the highest well-being of humans. This would apply not only from philosophical approach but also from an evolutionary one.
Having said that, I don’t believe eating meat is immoral. It is how we evolved, and eating meat is part of what is to be human.
There is a lot of behaviours and quirks that we’re evolved with and which we unequivocally consider being immoral. Like, racism for example.
If your morality includes promoting well-being of others, killing and eating said others, while having perfectly good alternative, goes kinda against it. If you for some reason only include humans (and probably dogs and cats I suppose) in a list of others that you care about, animal farms still contribute so much to our downfall, advocating for not doing it is the only consistent position.
Obviously, it’s not illegal to admit that your morality doesn’t goes beyond the boundaries of your body (or your family, whatever), but I would argue that we kind of need different word for it at this point.
There are multiple incorrect interpretations you are picturing. I did not say every behavior that came to existence are moral. Nor is evolution itself moral. I meant that morality came to existence because of human evolution as a whole, because it allows greater growth of humans and what is greater is selected through natural selection. Well being of humans is also not well being of singular or a single family. They would often be at counter to each other. Eating and killing others is obviously detrimental to humanity even if it would have benefited a single individual.
Benefit of humanity extends indirectly to other animals. But not directly. That is, the benefit of other animal does not matter, cats and dogs included. But these animals, including farm animals, or wildlife, do bring positive value to humanity. As an hyperbolic example, if skinning cats alive somehow benefited humanity, I would consider that a moral act and our perception of that act would follow. Furthering this example, we don’t consider annihilation of mosquitos (which humans actively partake in) to be immoral (just questionable consequences) because they seemingly bring no benefit to humanity.
My view on morality is not arbitrary. It is a question of what is good for humans as a whole. If yes, it is moral. If not, it is immoral.
would you get mad if someone kicked a dog for fun? Would it upset you if someone punched you in the face or stole your stuff? If so gtfo with that religious attitude, morals are only related to religion and the rest of us enlightened atheists can do anything we want
edit: to be clear, morals are important and good when they’re constructed rationally to protect sentient beings (human and non-human) from exploitation and abuse. Religious morals are deeply problematic because they’re not constructed rationally, and they try to restrict consenting adults from doing certain things together and they allow other horrific behaviors as totally fine. There’s a large, meaningful difference between animal rights and religious morals
Veganism isn’t so much a “dietary preference” as a way of life that recognizes animals as sentient beings and aims to minimize their suffering as much as possible (i.e. it’s not only about not eating them).
That aside: In my experience, giving a shit about the well-being of others, regardless of race or species, isn’t exactly common on the political right.
I think most are willing to admit that. Admission does not equal conversation, though. I’m in that camp, but I am trying to cook more vegetarian meals – nowhere near 100%, but progress is progress.
Edit: I should clarify that I’m concerned with the environmental impact. I have no moral issues with eating meat. Environmentally, we’ve seen overwhelming evidence that vegetarianism would be beneficial, and that is why I am making an effort.
I think anyone who has lived on or around a farm, or has just come to understand everything involved, would have a problem “admitting” that. Non-Factory farming in a modern country is dramatically benefited from having meat livestock alongside the vegetables, not to mention that there isn’t really any better use for marginal land than to have farm animals like cattle on it. In fact, there are arguments that cattle on marginal land are better for the environment than leaving the land unused because they are better able to sequester carbon than nothing. The environmental discussion that is “clearly pro-vegan” requires bringing in countries that are downright backwards and use their behaviors to overwhelm the many countries where animal ranching provide overall benefit.
And there’s as many Ethical arguments for meat eating as there are for veganism. The “big” argument for veganism here is the classic Utilitarian argument for veganism, but it has easily been beaten by Negative Utilitarian and straight-Utilitarian counters.
And since many of us aren’t Christian or adherents to any Divine Command theory, “morality” is itself unethical and unsustainable to us.
So when you do a French braid in hair, you start off with three small sections. Every time you fold over the outer sections, you incorporate more hair into those sections. This differs from a normal braid, which doesn’t increase the size of the three parts of the braid as you go along.
French braiding flesh would require a lot more flesh. Also it wouldn’t look nearly as tidy because the other ends of the flesh (those not in the braid) are not attached to anything (i.e. a scalp) so it would be a loose tangled mess.
There’s easier ways to make something grotesque and cursed.
Shit, now I’m thinking about it and you’d need something big like a flank steak or a brisket. I don’t think a pork-loin would work since it’s not broad enough. You’d still need to probably butterfly it, and then fringe the edge so you had strands to work into the braid. Best I can think of would be more like braided filled pastry than anything else. Not a terrible sway to do a stuffed roast or roulade I guess.
Nah, veganism is a religion. You don’t get into a religion because of pictures of meat.
Now, pictures like this may turn someone’s stomach and make them stop wanting to eat meat, though I have no idea how damn wimpy someone would have to be for this picture to bother them, but a piece of meat in front of them wouldn’t.
Hell, I’ve been wrist deep inside of wounds and it didn’t turn me vegan. I’ve cleaned up road kill and it didn’t turn me vegan.
This is just some clean meat decorated. It’s no different than stuffing a turkey, or butterflying a chicken breast, or doing a stuffed roast, or a braciole.
Seriously, I’m being a dick here, but you have to be a giant fucking wimp to see this picture and be so grossed out that you stop eating meat. Like, any motherfucker that can’t handle this picture would fucking die if they ever had to actually kill their own food. And that’s such a massively wimpy thing, I can’t think of a word for how utterly fucking lame that is. Like, motherfuckers, what the fuck would you do if you got injured and saw your own muscles? Pass the fuck out and die, that’s what would happen.
Are people really that disconnected from reality? That the sight of some clean meat is some kind of horror? Jesus fucking Christ on a pogo stick, how sheltered does someone have to be for that? I mean, offense intended, but anyone that grossed out by this picture needs to grow the fuck up and get some life experience.
Is it not though? Vegans act like it’s their religion, it fulfills similar social needs, they behave in the same wau as religious zealots. They exhibit the same assumption that their belief is the one true belief, and anyone that does not come to their belief is flawed.
You’re gettin downvoted, but you’re right. It’s the metric we’re coming to use for any group. It’s “okay” if your group has some fringe members that need to be distanced from. It becomes “not okay” when the majority silently accepts the horrible behavior of them.
Similarly, very few cops take abusive actions against minorities, but the number of cops who will defend that behavior in the name of “police brotherhood” closes in at 100%.
People who are downvoting you are out-of-touch with the fact that they are “the good cop who does nothing” in their own group.
Because it’s not a community. It’s millions of random people that have nothing to do with each other and thus don’t see the loud minority or feel the need to correct them. Of course you can create small group out of them, like the vegans of twitters, but they do not represent the many 60 yo Asians that just don’t eat meat.
It’s millions of random people that have nothing to do with each other and thus don’t see the loud minority or feel the need to correct them
So vegans are “special”? Can you think of other examples of groups of millions of people where there’s no such expectation on their members to call out bad behavior by their fringe? I’m white; skin color is not a community, but I would still be complacent if I didn’t stand against white supremacists. And in terms of randomness and “community” size, there’s more white people than vegans.
they do not represent the many 60 yo Asians that just don’t eat meat.
“Just don’t eat meat” isn’t veganism. Veganism is “just WON’T eat meat… and just WON’T eat other animal products”.
More importantly, look at the context. All he did was point out that vegans NEVER call down militant veganism. If he’s wrong, and I’m wrong, stop saying “there’s no responsibility” and show me just a few sites by “Western hip vegans who tweet” or whatever the hell subset of veganism we’re going to run with, where they are calling out militant vegans on their bullshit. I’ll wait, but I won’t hold my breath.
Let me give my counterpoint. What you’re really trying to say is that vegans have no responsibility to call down militant veganism because most vegans think there’s nothing wrong with it.
That was a quick comparison with white supremacy, veganism isn’t nearly as important as that.
Vegans are not special. It’s like if I had the same nationality as someone, do you really need to call out someone from the US that shit on European (assuming you are from the US) ? Maybe, maybe not, some do, some don’t. Same for veganism.
I assumed he meant vegan aren’t calling out extremists enough, obviously there are vegans calling out other vegans if that’s what you want. I searched “militant are bad for veganism” and found this article www.refinery29.com/…/vegan-extremist-language that list a few vegans that are against militant.
(I did not check further on theses accounts btw, if they changed their mind since that doesn’t mean there are no better example).
And I never wanted to say most vegans agree with extremists. Theses assholes are ruining veganism image. Without them people would hear vegan and think about nature, saving animals, saving the evironnement. But right now they only think about 30 years old Karen screaming at them for no reason calling people murderer and so on.
I’m not Godwinizing this. The analogy is apt. Not because Veganism is as bad as the White Supremacy movement, but because militant veganism is culturally near-identical with regards to levels of organization, cohesion, and belittling and exclusion of the opposing majority.
Vegans are not special. It’s like if I had the same nationality as someone, do you really need to call out someone from the US that shit on European (assuming you are from the US) ?
No, vegans aren’t special. Thank you. And yes, I consider it my responsibility to call out the American anti-Mexican rhetoric that’s been rekindled because if I don’t, I am complicit. I am struggling not to tangent into at least 20 other incidents between old racial slurs and attacks insults about homosexuality where I’ve had to stand up against “my class”, but the moment I hadn’t done so, then I’m as bad as them.
this article that list a few vegans that are against militant
Unfortunately, this article supports my point in a way I don’t know you intended. This is an article discussing how militant vegans (including the creators of Dominion) are against the tactic of insulting non-vegans directly in their goal of getting everyone to stop eating meat. Further, this clearly rebuts your earlier claim that militant veganism isn’t “a community”.
Remember, if you’re activists against someone’s behavior, you’re attacking that behavior. You need to be damn sure the behavior you’re attacking is objectively wrong. Good-cop Bad-copping it doesn’t change that.
And I never wanted to say most vegans agree with extremists. Theses assholes are ruining veganism image
Then, do the world a favor, and call them out. It probably doesn’t get veganism across the line of reasonableness (stopping pushing for others to be vegan is where that happens) but it gives you a bit more of an ethical foundation.
Without them people would hear vegan and think about nature, saving animals, saving the evironnement
I hate that most vegans I meet won’t agree with me on animal protections in farms because my goals still involve people eating them (EDIT: them=animals. Stupid English language unclear pronouns). I consider my home state’s new free range chicken law a massive win because it doesn’t play with the meaning of “free range” like many big companies do, but most vegans consider it “just another step in normalizing humans eating animals”. You’ve heard the statement “making perfect the enemy of good”, right? Well, there’s a step worse, which is making “my personal preference the enemy of perfect”.
Let me make this clear. We exist in a world where we can scaleably give farm animals a better quality of life than they’d get in the wild with a better environmental impact than not eating them, but it requires regulations that vegans are often unwilling to openly support because it’s not what they want.
But right now they only think about 30 years old Karen screaming at them for no reason calling people murderer and so on.
Agreed. Memes become that because they’re often true. “How do you know someone is a vegan?” EVERYONE has experienced that particular little joke dozens of times if not more. I used to have a coworker who aggressively preached veganism at me, as he gained a ton of weight and his health degraded. This is not me saying that vegans can’t be healthy, but he was definitely doing veganism a disservice.
It doesn’t matter that much to me, I won’t go out of my way to shut down a vegan extremist, I don’t care enough.
I’ve got a few close to me, and they go out of their way to shut down other people close to me. I’ve lived around and been involved in various ways with people in the various meat-related industries. It hurts them, and I care about them, so I care about the issue.
I don’t expect everyone to feel that way. But it’s like the difference between “internet atheists” who are a dime a dozen, and “that guy you actually know that thinks it’s appropriate to treat non-atheists as absolute morons”.
cutting animal product is easier than picking the local farm meat so it’s what I choose
I can respect that. It’s a band-aid solution in my opinion, but if I look at how I tolerate half-ass government actions, I have to honestly accept that a band-aid solution should not be faulted too much.
the most important part is stopping the torture on animals
I think we’d diverge here, but that’s ok. To me, sustainability is more important than animal comfort any time we can’t feasibly have both, so long as a farmed animal is generally better off than the same species in the wild by some agreeable metric - which both cows and chickens generally are (except liberty, but few non-human species put any QoL value on “freedom”).
I hate the mentality that if it’s not perfect we don’t do it, it’s the same for vegans hating on vegetarian.
1000% percent. Vegans are not “going to win” and have a kumbaya utopia (dystopia) where people across the world are forbidden to eat animals and harshly punished when they try. And they’re sure not going to get a world where the masses choose veganism. But there’s a LOT of even ranchers and hunters of all people who would stand at their side for better regulations on humane treatment.
This is just zealots like any belief. It is not all vegans. I have been vegetairian for 30 years amd vegan for about 3, other than responding to you I never “promote” my life choice to anyone or try to convert anyone. It only comes up if a coworker say he lets grab dinner and I order a tofu curry while they have a steak. I even worked at a place for over 5 years before finding out a fellow employee was vegan. It just never comes up.
My cousin is like that. I enjoy trolling online vegans because they tend to be the zealots, but I don’t actually have anything against the “ism” itself. Different strokes, and all that.
My cousin gets a big old pot of vegan chili when he’s in town because he likes it, and I like making it for him. We poke fun at each other over bowls of the stuff.
I was part of the vegan cult for years until I read this comment, thank you for saving me.
I was a wimp. I didn’t enjoy the idea of harming and killing animals, I had watched videos of animals being gutted alive and having their throats cut and squirming for literal minutes afterwards. This was uncomfortable, but only because I was a wimp.
After reading your comment I manned up and took my dog and 2 cats, strung them up while they were whimpering (which was hilarious), and slit their throats, cooked their delicious innards, and am finally able to walk again (I was only able to crawl because I had been nutrient deficient for so long despite what my libtard doctors told me).
I’m happy to live in a free country where I can do whatever I want with my property. In China I bet you can’t cook a dog because the government is just a bunch of moralizing leftists. God gave us domain over animals, and so I get to choose what I want to do with the animals I purchase.
Lmao! Dude, that’s the single best response in the entire thread! Counter-trolling ftmfw! I can’t even come back at that one, I’m laughing too hard. No bullshit, thank you for that :)
Not about wimpiness or grimacing at the picture. More about gradually recognizing that you’re just eating pieces of animal flesh. For me, that went hand in hand with studying biology & med textbooks, about a decade ago. Not irrational, I’m not going “it’s icky”, it’s me knowing what the chemical composition is, where it came from, what it is, and going, “yeah this is fucking nasty”.
Eating rotisserie chicken is what made me fully realize we were just chowing down on animal carcass. It’s fucking delicious, and I eat rotisserie chicken all the time.
Lol don’t worry, I get it. I used to hate it as a kid because the bones grossed me out but when I matured and realized it’s natural for animals to eat other animals, it became much more appetizing to me. I guess the advantage of being on omnivore is you can choose to abstain from that, but I like eating animals.
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