does anyone have more insight into ellen Ripley's role as warrant officer on the nostromo in Alien(1979)? Happy Aliens day btw

southsamurai, 29 days ago

Well, a warrant officer is essentially an in between rank. In most militaries, they’re one notch higher than an NCO (non commissioned officer) but below a commissioned officer.

Now, if that doesn’t mean anything to you, an NCO gets rank through direct service from enlistment at the lowest rank, with a hard limit (during peace time anyway) on how high they can go without extra training. A commissioned officer is usually going to start at the lowest commissioned rank right out of an academy or other training facility. Mind you, this varies even between services, and can vary even more between nations, and is over simplified.

I don’t think that the Nostromo was a military vessel at all, so being the warrant officer could have any meaning at all within the context of the film. That being said, I got the impression she was basically the person in charge of cargo and gear used in the work as an exploratory commercial ship. The position as third mate or the equivalent would have been more about chain of command than any specific training the way the military would have. One if those things where the job is dangerous, so the possibility of death is high enough that you want to know who is in charge if the worst happens, but everyone is able to run the ship to some degree as well.

Kane was the SIC/XO for sure, but his job wasn’t ever detailed beyond that, which is one of those hand wave things that happens in movies. If the ship was run like the merchant marines, the deck officers (Dallas, Kane and Ripley) would have more specific duties and roles, but I got the impression that the company didn’t function like a merchant navy at all, and the ranks were largely applied as a nod to tradition rather than a real world analog.

Outside the movie universe, I suspect that the writer just didn’t bother to look into naval rankings, or other sailing ranks and just went with what they liked in the way of terminology.

But I would say that the structure was closer to merchant marines than anything else in the real world within the movie.

All of that stuff comes from second hand info though. I had a few cousins that were merchant marines, and a few family members that held various ranks in either the US Navy or Coast Guard. My grandfather was career Navy, and ended up going from enlisted into officer training and retired as a Commander. So I picked up a bit, but never experienced it directly.

I tend to think of those parts being window dressing rather than world building since it’s never given any weight in the other movies.

Whiskey_iicarus, 29 days ago

In the American military a warrant officer is a subject matter expert in their career field. They are supposed to be advisors to commanders on the best tactics, techniques, and procedures at most levels, all the way down to the company level in army aviation. They are in most fields of the military like maintenance, personnel, property, aviation, special forces, etc.

Warrant officers in the American military are commissioned officers, so in some instances they can be used as an XO or detachment commander. They usually have limited Uniformed Code of Military Justice(UCMJ) authority, but are just as capable of running a unit as a captain or a major.

In the case of Ridley, rank and position aren’t the same thing. Ridley is a warrant officer in the aviation branch, but the third ranking officer after the commander and XO or first officer.

Warrant officers are supposed to be those people with knowledge that is an inch wide but a mile deep about a certain subject, but they are almost always very capable people and sometimes take on more roles. US Army aviation is the worst about this. They use flight warrants as catch all officers and will use them as supply officers, NBC officers, unit movement officers, or really any other job there isn’t an enlisted person qualified to do the job.

Most of my experience is US Army aviation, so feel free to take it all with that in mind.

Varyk, 29 days ago

That helps a lot with the context of my question, so I really appreciate it.

That definitely fits in with her cinematic role of doing everything and checking over everything that everybody else does, as well as offering advice to the captain regularly on his plans and orders.

So what about the XO?

I would expect them to question the captain on their orders more than the third officer.

Then again, Kane seems to agree with everything that Dallas suggests, so maybe he’s just a yes man and that’s why Ripley is so forward with her suggestions.

Whiskey_iicarus, 29 days ago

Warrant officers are notoriously blunt and voices of reason in a command group. They are the realists that usually tell the commander how it is, as opposed to what they think people want to hear since they usually know the most in the room about whatever it is they specialize in. In everything but army aviation there is usually only one or two warrant officers in a battalion of hundreds, maybe thousands of soldiers. They usually only answer to the highest ranking person at the table. Aviation warrant officers are more prevalent in terms of numbers but usually no less opinionated and while overruled very often will gladly tell their commanders how something probably won’t work out like it’s planned and then sit back and watch everything burn like they said it would.

In my own personal experience, XOs don’t usually grow a spine unless they were outstanding platoon leaders OR after they have been in command of a whole unit.

Varyk, 29 days ago

Thanks, that’s making a whole lot of sense in context of the movie.

So you would agree that it’s odd for them to have a warrant officer with a crew of seven?

Or do crews always have a captain, the executive officer and then the warrant officer regardless of the size of the crew?

Not 100% of course, but in general.

Whiskey_iicarus, 29 days ago

As far as I know all manned aircraft pilots in the US military are commissioned or warrant officers. I think it makes complete sense that you would want a pilot that was specifically trained for whatever missions you were going on. Someone whose sole focus is on flying but can adapt in a pinch and has management skills to offload some of the work from the commander and XO.

In a normal aviation company there are two platoons of pilots and almost all of those are warrant officers and a platoon leader who really just manages the other pilots.

Varyk, 29 days ago

Rad, thanks. That really helps, I couldn’t understand her role very clearly since she did so much, but with your explanation and context, it all makes perfect sense.

Have a good one

Whiskey_iicarus, 29 days ago

You are quite welcome! I hope you have a lovely one as well.

redhorsejacket, 29 days ago

Adding on to this, TECHNICALLY speaking the freshest butter bar (lowest ranking commissioned) outranks the highest warrant. However, just as it would be foolish for a lieutenant to try and pull rank on their grizzled platoon sergeant, it would be foolish for an officer to dismiss the advice of a warrant for all of the reasons stated above.

Also, I find the biggest distinction between warrants and other officers is their attitude on command, which I think fits very well with discussing Ripley’s role on the ship. The warrants I have worked with typically have little to no interest in being in charge of other people, outside of a small team of folks dedicated to a common mission (e.g. a vehicle maintenance shop, supply warehouse crew, etc). If they wanted to be supervisors, they either would have remained NCOs or commissioned as lieutenants rather than warrants. So, Ripley being put in a position where she is responsible for others is probably both not in her wheelhouse, and actually antithetical to her desires. That’s always gone a long way for me as for as explaining her prickliness early on (especially relating to Yafet Kotto and Harry Dean Stanton’s blue collar “enlisted man” characters).

Bougie_Birdie, 29 days ago

It’s been a while since I’ve seen the movie, but Warrant Officer is a rank used in several different armed forces. It’s exact position varies, but you can think of them as either the highest rank grunt or the lowest rank officer.

Varyk, 29 days ago

Thanks. I was wondering what the role of the warrant officer was in real armed forces. I guess that makes sense then, because we have the captain and then the EXO. Thomas Kane and then Ripley.

That seemed like a lot of management for such a small crew, but I guess that was it.

originalucifer, 29 days ago

i never got the impression she was the pilot.

not sure where in the hierarchy her role/title would have been, but she was clearly management... handling pay issues, and being very knowledgeable about all onboard systems, policies and procedures. #3 sounds right; behind the captain and the android

Varyk, 29 days ago

You think the Android would have been number two? What about Kane?

No, it looks like Thomas Kane is the executive officer, I think Ash was just a science officer that the company installed as a plant.

But then that gives us three management officers, which seems slightly overbearing.

originalucifer, 29 days ago

That is a good point.. the bot was identified as the science officer