Violence erupted at the University of California, Los Angeles after pro-Israeli counter-demonstrators attacked a pro-Palestinian campus encampment. Bubbling tensions on the campus boiled over following the alleged breach of a “buffer zone” between the rival groups.
I think this is a good example of how vigilantes often work to support the state’s goals when it can’t legally/easily complete their goals.
For every fascistic government still bound by laws, there will be fascists willing to ignore them to support it. See this. See the KKK carrying out lynchings on people who are barely escaping the grasp of the state. See the settlers illegally settling on Palestinian land to carry out the state’s goals of ethnic cleansing.
In situations like this, it’s common that the vigilantes are not actually rogue. They’re working together with the police. They might be friends, they might be off duty cops, and they could easily be messaging each other about what ought to be done when.
I don’t have any specific evidence that this situation is as described above, but we know that many others have been and will be.
If we travel back in time a little bit you will find obvious examples, such as the police working directly with the klan (specifically the 2nd klan) and instances of sherrifs deputizing people to allow them to carry out extreme violence against bipoc
Hate is a strong motivator but it uses up too much fuel and burns itself out. To see it only as hate is a bit reductionist. You can only use hate to motivate yourself for so long.
Fear, envy, and uncertainty/fear of the future are much more longstanding motivators used to continue fascist creep.
Regardless, fascists align themselves with the state. The police often can’t get away with crushing protesters without suffering bad PR, and risking strengthening popular support when images of police brutality evoke memories of past brutalities.
Fascist vigilantes don’t care about PR, and they might get the support of the police (or they get the police’s non-support of their enemies) or even the government
Vigilante porn is too useful as propaganda. Americans, especially, love the imagery of a tough person who steps up and does “the right thing,” where traditional tools of enforcement are weakened by corruption, incompetence, or policy. Doesn’t matter if it’s Dirty Harry, Batman, or some Christian Nationalist with a sharpened flagpole.
How is it that on this one topic, all rational discourse is completely absent? I mean there’s some topics where one side is completely irrational, sure. But when it comes to Israel-Palestine, everyone on all sides is just completely and often violently nonsensical.
This is the argument nearly everyone has been making forever.
A two-state solution is the only way the situation should end, and that should include the removal of Netanyahu and an end to Isreal’s encroachment on Palestinian land. The people of the area have been failed by their governments.
Ok fine, this is a rational argument, although present company excepted I don’t really find other people arguing both at the same time.
A two-state solution is the only way the situation should end
But this is where the mainstream views lose me and seem to grasp at something that everyone should be able to see is just not gonna work. You have the gaza strip on one side, the west bank on the other, and Israel in between. How can this be two countries? Is there any other country that’s in 2 separate land masses with its adversary in the middle?
As I understand it, Israel would have to cede land to Palestine so that each can have a continuous land mass. That land was taken to from Israel in the first place, so it’s not unreasonable for some of it to be taken back.
But of course Israel the government is not fond of that at all.
Which thing that someone says is a genocide are you referring to? Because last I checked, “both sides” claim that the other is trying to genocide them.
And frankly, both are again engaging in hasty generalizations. There are people in Palestine who want a genocide in Israel, and people in Israel who want a genocide in Palestine. And many more in both that don’t. But that latter bit is really inconvenient for everyone, isn’t it?
Which is exactly why those people are being used by more powerful figures. It’s hard to change the hearts and minds of the people, it’s easy to make them fight themselves.
It is indeed an effective strategy to distract the masses unfortunately. There is a real growth opportunity here for humanity if we are able to see it as clearly the established pattern is not serving society.
These idiots couldn’t answer a single fucking question about Israel or Palestine but the people protesting are “libs” and the brainwashing of “my tribe vs their tribe” appears to be as effective as ever
“Fireworks and tear gas flew through the night sky as masked counter-protesters attempted to tear down barricades, and struck campers with sticks and bats.”
If you had read past “counter-protesters”, it goes on to say, “…attack pro-Palestinian camp”
“Counter-protester” describes who they were not what they were doing. That’s what the word “attack” is for. If you read the article it contains even more details.
It seems like you’re having a difficult time understanding this, maybe I can help. If another group of people showed up, and they had signs, and maybe bullhorns, and they started protesting the opposite of what the original people were protesting, they would be counter-protesting. Some heckling could even be involved.
When they show up wearing masks and wielding baseball bats, they are not counter-protestors. They are violent criminals. They did not show up to protest. They showed up to insight violence.
It seems like your having a difficult time understanding this
Im not, and your childish insults don’t make you right. There’s not dress code for protesters, and your No True Scotsman fallacy doesn’t win your argument any points. The Counter-protesters were counter-protesting, then they attacked the protesters. It’s a simple concept to grasp.
Just because it doesn’t tell the narrative you wish it to tell isn’t my fault. It’s just the facts as they happened, not an opinion piece.
Now go insult someone else for their ability to read.
Yes, we had established that the headline’s use of words was wrong, and then you came to chime in afterwards to argue in their favor. Nobody was confused about their intent before you came here. You added nothing but to contradict the previous user.
Yes, we had established that the headline’s use of words was wrong
No, several people here feel that way. You and others have that opinion. Nobody gets do decide their own facts, however. But this is a news article, not an opinion piece, and objective reporting of facts is what was called for. You are free to disagree about that, but it doesn’t make you “right”.
and then you came to chime in afterwards to argue in their favor
Wrong. I didn’t argue in anyone’s “favor”. I merely pointed out what I said above: this is a news article, not an opinion piece, which reported on a group of protesters being attacked by a group of counter-protesters. How you or anyone may feel about that or those involved is opinion and doesn’t belong in a news article.
Nobody was confused about their intent before you came here. You added nothing but to contradict the previous user.
Well, that’s just demonstrably false, and if you don’t like that, or the contents of the article, that’s what the downvote button is for, but I didn’t write the article and am not to blame for it’s contents.
I’m seeing this comment pattern a lot lately where they take apart and quote the previous comment in an argument, often using nonsequitur bullshit responses. Is this the latest bot, or do the kids these days lack all originality? I don’t do that shit. I assume you already know what your previous comment was without quoting it back to you. Maybe I’m giving you too much credit?
I’m seeing this response a lot lately. Can’t write a rational counter argument, so out come the insults and/or accusations of being a bot.
Classy.
FWIW, I don’t hold it against you. This is a terrible, horrible subject and series of events, and I’m trying very hard not to be overly emotional about all of this. I very much do support the pro-Palestinian protesters, but it also think it’s important to keep facts straight and to keep a cool head when discussing these events.
The religious nutter brothers, Isaac and Ishmael, should leave their stupid family blood feud baggage, over some dried rocks, in the Middle East. Leave the rest of us in peace and you can go medieval on each other over the fuck there.
Ok wow. First, thanks to everyone who have their estimates. Appreciated. And for everyone else and the warriors of downvoting: No I was not trolling abd not it’s not THAT unilkely for it to be lefties (yes okay anarchists and tankies I mostly said as exmples so you know what I’m trying to ask)
If you are interested: there is a german lefty flavor called Antideutsche (anti-german). They are Zionists, antifas, anticapitalist, have a thing for violence (stylizing “bomber harris” for example), say weird thing like “protecting ur environment is like protecting your ‘home country’ like nazis would” and sometimes think of whoever basically as if they were nazis.
I’m not making this up, lefties go weird ways sometimes.
Okay on second thought I wanna take back that warriors comment, that was too bitchy. Guess I’m also not uneffected by how toxic the whole discourse on Israel (also in or between lefty communities) is.
Like, everyone seems to feel they’d have to be either “pro israel” or “pro palestine”, wich imo 1. Is freaking dangerous for germans specifically 2. Doesn’t recognize the complexity (in the sense of one can’t just identify the totality of Israel with its right wing government as ome can’t just identify palestine with hamas.) 3. It tends to overlook the perspective of both israelian and palestinian lefties
MAGAs. because american conservatives are often also american evangelists, and they’ve got some weird ideas about israel. those conservatives who don’t necessarily personally believe weird stuff about israel (ie the jews having a homeland means the second coming of jesus and everything will be great for evangelical christians) are being brought along by the right-wing propaganda on this issue.
For every large group there’s probably only only 2-8 that are genuinely knowledgeable and authentic about the beliefs being fought for. Regardless of sides.
Isn’t it interesting how Israel and pro-Israel people apply the exact same tactic?! Let’s attack innocent people. Whether it’s bombing innocent civilians or violently attacking peaceful protestors. It’s so telling. They are rotten to their core.
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