Meh, most of the BEV’s available are big inefficient wallowing SUV’s with hefty price tags regardless of the clean car discount.
I’m hoping some of the Chinese manufacturers will bring affordable sedan or station wagon BEV’s to the market. Lighter, better aerodynamics, more range for the same battery size.
Not interested in hybrids, the worst of both worlds
PHEVs are the best of both worlds for me living in an apartment with limited charging capacity.
We have two shared charges for PHEVs, they can be used for four hours maximum per day, this means that I can drive in EV mode to and from the shops as well as to my parents house, if I need to go further, I turn on Hybrid mode and it gives me great milage for a long time.
Nio seems to be the one making waves that no one in NZ has heard of as they don’t operate here. They are doing the Tesla promise of swapable batteries for real life, with a network of swap stations. Imagine buying a car and knowing you can in future swap the battery for a longer range one, one with better health, not to mention long range batteries from empty to fully charged in minutes.
This is a stupid idea, and there’s a very good reason why nobody but them is doing it.
Both swappable batteries and hydrogen are dead end technologies, at least as far as road vehicles are concerned. The economics of hydrogen will never compare to an EV, the range is only similar, and the charge rates of modern EVs have made the refuel time less significant.
With battery swaps, the logistics and capital required to build a charging station, which any EV can charge at, compared to a battery swap station which only one model of vehicle can use, mean this will never be widespread.
Meanwhile, most EVs will go from 10-80% capacity in about fifteen minutes.
Try and find out the cost per KG for hydrogen, it’s almost impossible. If you lease a hydrogen car, the fuel is included in the lease, and I’ve found it very hard to find a retail price for the stuff, but every price I have seen indicates it’s phenomenally expensive, meaning a hydrogen vehicle is more expensive to run than a petrol vehicle.
Here’s some actual numbers, $200 usd to fill a Mirai, which will give you about 600km of range.
As to the battery swap thing, it took decades, and an EU ultimatum, for everyone to agree on a charging standard, what do you think your chances are of everyone agreeing on a battery design?
That seems like a silly worry to me. I would be more concerned about what my own country or a corporation or the USA could do to me than China. Think about it. The USA could charge me with something like copyright violation and boom I get arrested just like that. China accuses me of a crime and the government won’t do shit.
I’m sure they won’t do shit, but why would I let a foreign entity that EMPHATICALLY only cares about itself access to my information when I don’t have to?
Corporations spy on us too, and this is motivated by profit. The Chinese government is much more insidious. If I were a Chinese expat, for example, I should genuinely be concerned about them finding information on me and arresting me when I visit there.
I’m sure they won’t do shit, but why would I let a foreign entity that EMPHATICALLY only cares about itself access to my information when I don’t have to?
You are doing that now though.
The Chinese government is much more insidious. If I were a Chinese expat, for example, I should genuinely be concerned about them finding information on me and arresting me when I visit there.
I am not a chinese expat though. I have literally zero concern that China is going to get me or do anything to me let alone care about me.
OTOH I am very afraid to attend a protest or even accidentally cross the street during a protest because I know I will go on some list and my face will be recorded by our own government.
I trust the NZ government a lot more than the CCP, and you should too.
I am not a chinese expat though. I have literally zero concern that China is going to get me or do anything to me let alone care about me.
Neither am I, but I can recognize the terrible actions taken by that government, and not want to support it in any way.
OTOH I am very afraid to attend a protest or even accidentally cross the street during a protest because I know I will go on some list and my face will be recorded by our own government.
Why? Are you seriously trying to compare the New Zealand, or any western government, to the CCP? If you are, then I seriously doubt you understand quite how bad the CCP is.
I trust the NZ government a lot more than the CCP, and you should too.
Depends on the topic. I trust NZ government more than the CCP in most things but I fear the NZ government more than I fear the CCP because the NZ government exercises more power over me than the CCP does.
BTW why do you keep ignoring the other evil empire in the picture? I trust the US government less than I trust both the NZ government and the CCP.
Neither am I, but I can recognize the terrible actions taken by that government, and not want to support it in any way.
Cough Israel, cough Saudi Arabia.
Why?
Because I don’t want to be on the list of known dissidents the government keeps.
Are you seriously trying to compare the New Zealand, or any western government, to the CCP?
Yes.
If you are, then I seriously doubt you understand quite how bad the CCP is.
As bad as they are they can not exert any power over me. OTOH both the NZ government and the US government can exert tremendous amount of power over me.
This is not a contest of who is worse the USA wins that hands down. This is a contest of who can harm me personally the most and who I should be afraid of the most.
BTW why do you keep ignoring the other evil empire in the picture? I trust the US government less than I trust both the NZ government and the CCP.
This is not a contest of who is worse the USA wins that hands down. This is a contest of who can harm me personally the most and who I should be afraid of the most.
Now I know you don’t fully grasp how bad the CCP is.
The US government is pretty corrupt. But it is absolutely nothing like the CCP. Does the US government disappear political opponents? Does it require all companies over a certain size to have official party officers on staff, to ensure they are ‘paying their dues’ and not becoming too powerful. Does it fund infrastructure projects to debt riddled countries so that they have no choice but to sell them all their mineral wealth? Does the US government actively genocide ethnic minorities? Seriously, they are both bad, but the CCP is much worse.
Cough Israel, cough Saudi Arabia.
What?
Because I don’t want to be on the list of known dissidents the government keeps.
🙄
This is a contest of who can harm me personally the most and who I should be afraid of the most.
The US has no control over you, unless you are a citizen there. What are you afraid of?
Now I know you don’t fully grasp how bad the CCP is.
You keep moving the goalpost. CCP is bad, not as bad as the USA, not as bad Saudi Arabia, not as bad as South Korea, not as bad as Israel.
The US government is pretty corrupt.
LOL. “pretty corrupt”.
Does the US government disappear political opponents?
It kills them with drone strikes. Also tortures them.
Does it require all companies over a certain size to have official party officers on staff, to ensure they are ‘paying their dues’ and not becoming too powerful.
You keep moving the goalpost. CCP is bad, not as bad as the USA, not as bad Saudi Arabia, not as bad as South Korea, not as bad as Israel.
I’m not moving anything. You started using whataboutism to compare China to the US. “The US is worse” and all that. While I disagree with you about this, it doesn’t matter. Multiple things can be true at once. China is bad. The US is bad. Israel is bad. These are all, simultaneously, true.
LOL. “pretty corrupt”.
Yes, pretty corrupt. They are still a government that follows laws. This is why Trump is currently facing legal problems instead of successfully overthrowing Biden in a coup. Currently, Biden cannot pass certain laws because it still requires both the Senate and the House to pass a new law.
You understand that the CCP is a dictatorship right? Single party with absolute control? These things are not the same.
It kills them with drone strikes. Also tortures them.
Terrorists and enemy combatants, yes. Not political opponents though. Is Biden ordering his political opponents locked up and tortured? No? These things are not the same.
From your link: “By law, NSLs can request only non-content information, for example, transactional records and phone numbers dialed, but never the content of telephone calls or e-mails.”
I am not arguing that the US does not do bad things, but that it is not comparable to the CCP. The US still generally tries to follow its own laws. The CCP can and does do whatever it wants.
Lol, this is a book which is widely discredited. The author is a conspiracy theorist, and little if anything of his claims have been verified. I would not use that book as your source of information.
Yes, by helping Israel and Saudi Arabia and Yemen do it.
If you do not see how these are not the same thing then we may as well move on.
Kimdotcom
So a very high profile person who flagrantly broke the law in multiple jurisdictions has led to the US asking for extradition, which is a thing many countries will do, and is still here. This is your example? Are you a high profile owner of a massive piracy platform? No?
No actual US citizens and their children. BTW all it takes for them to call somebody a terrorist is to call them a terrorist.
Yes, pretty corrupt. They are still a government that follows laws
Apparently you haven’t been keeping up with the news
From your link: “By law, NSLs can request only non-content information, for example, transactional records and phone numbers dialed, but never the content of telephone calls or e-mails.”
That’s because they already have access to the content from the NSA.
Lol, this is a book which is widely discredited.
LOL it hasn’t.
If you do not see how these are not the same thing then we may as well move on.
If you don’t see how it’s the same thing thing we might as well move on. There are actual genocides happening in Gaza and Yemen but hey since the US is helping with those that’s OK I guess.
So a very high profile person who flagrantly broke the law in multiple jurisdictions has led to the US asking for extradition, which is a thing many countries will do, and is still here.
He only broke US laws and his house was raided.
Again though you seem to think this is perfectly fine so there is no need to go on.
Yes, pretty corrupt. They are still a government that follows laws
Apparently you haven’t been keeping up with the news
I have.
That’s because they already have access to the content from the NSA.
They don’t, at least not how you are suggesting they do.
LOL it hasn’t.
It has.
If you don’t see how it’s the same thing thing we might as well move on. There are actual genocides happening in Gaza and Yemen but hey since the US is helping with those that’s OK I guess.
When did I say they were ok?
He only broke US laws and his house was raided.
Copywrite infringement is illegal in most countries, including here.
Again though you seem to think this is perfectly fine so there is no need to go on.
When did I say it was? I don’t think he should be extradited, but I’m not worried about the Big Bad US Government coming after me.
No, you’re right, he is charged with criminal copyright infringement, money laundering, racketeering and wire fraud.
But you are worried about the big bad Chinese government coming after you.
More than the US, yes. Why? Because of the reasons I’ve outline elsewhere: the US, as bad as it is, still has some laws and balances it must navigate. The Chinese government has none, and has actively shown to track and detain both citizens and foreigners.
I have lived and worked in China, so I am absolutely certain there is a file on me somewhere (I had a nice chat with a “totallynota” member of the CCP at my a company over drinks one night when he offered that they keep an eye on every foreigner in the country.
No, you’re right, he is charged with criminal copyright infringement, money laundering, racketeering and wire fraud.
He wasn’t charged with anything in NZ.
More than the US, yes. Why? Because of the reasons I’ve outline elsewhere: the US, as bad as it is, still has some laws and balances it must navigate.
Do you think if China accused you of copyright infringement NZ police would raid your house?
I have lived and worked in China, so I am absolutely certain there is a file on me somewhere (I had a nice chat with a “totallynota” member of the CCP at my a company over drinks one night when he offered that they keep an eye on every foreigner in the country.
And you are convinced the NZ government would do the bidding of the Chinese if the Chinese government decided to come after you right?
But what he did is illegal here just as well as in the states. What is your point? Do you own a massive piracy platform? If not, it’s not really comparable to you or I is it?
Do you think if China accused you of copyright infringement NZ police would raid your house?
No, but they could potentially detain me if I travel through there if I regularly bad-mouth the regime.
I really don’t get you mate. Are you saying that the US, a country that actually has laws and is not a dictatorship, is worse than an actual dictatorship with a long history of abuse.
AND EVEN IF IT WAS, why does that fucking matter? I don’t have to love the US if I dislike China. I can avoid both if I want. Your whataboutism is pointless.
And you are convinced the NZ government would do the bidding of the Chinese if the Chinese government decided to come after you right?
No, but other countries can and will. I do not have to worry about the US disappearing me if I say bad things about Biden. There is a small, but measurable, risk that this can happen if I badmouth the CCP and then travel to certain countries. Once again, asking another authority to arrest a massive international criminal is not the same as disappearing normal everday people because they said a bad thing about Winnie the Pooh.
But what he did is illegal here just as well as in the states.
Was he charged here?
What is your point? Do you own a massive piracy platform? If not, it’s not really comparable to you or I is it?
Anybody could become a target by breaking a US law.
No, but they could potentially detain me if I travel through there if I regularly bad-mouth the regime.
I am not talking about that. Would the NZ police raid your house and arrest you if China accused you of a crime? We know they would if the USA accused you of a crime.
I really don’t get you mate. Are you saying that the US, a country that actually has laws and is not a dictatorship, is worse than an actual dictatorship with a long history of abuse.
Yes I am. Being a democracy has nothing to do with anything.
. I do not have to worry about the US disappearing me if I say bad things about Biden.
They could kill you with a drone strike.
There is a small, but measurable, risk that this can happen if I badmouth the CCP and then travel to certain countries.
The USA will kill you right here if they want.
Once again, asking another authority to arrest a massive international criminal is not the same as disappearing normal everday people because they said a bad thing about Winnie the Pooh.
LOL. You really drank a lot of right wing kool aid if you believe Kim Dotcom wa s a massive international criminal.
Sigh, look. You don’t seem to understand how extradition treaties work.
It’s very simple. Our two countries have a reciprocal extradition treaty. This means, if someone is a wanted criminal in our country, we can ask the US government to detain and deport this person so they can stand trial in our country. The same is true of the US. Whether or not he actually committed a crime HERE is irrelevant: He is a wanted criminal in the US, and they asked our government to detain and deport him. Note he is still in NZ.
I am not talking about that. Would the NZ police raid your house and arrest you if China accused you of a crime? We know they would if the USA accused you of a crime.
We don’t have an extradition treaty with China. We do with the US. This isn’t hard to understand.
Yes I am. Being a democracy has nothing to do with anything.
Are you suggesting that a country that has minorities in concentration camps, has waged cultural war on others, actively exploits poor nations, tracks and watches their entire population, domestically and abroad, locks up political opponents, disappears people critical to the government, detains foreign citizens and actively tries to subvert democracy in other countries is as bad as the US?
If you are you are either naive or an idiot. I can’t quite figure out which.
They could kill you with a drone strike.
Happens all the time does it? I must have missed all those drone strikes in NZ, the UK and the EU.
The USA will kill you right here if they want.
When has that ever happened here?
LOL. You really drank a lot of right wing kool aid if you believe Kim Dotcom wa s a massive international criminal.
Man you have wildly missed the mark here. I never said I think he deserves to be a criminal, only that he is. He IS a massive international criminal because he has, no matter how dumb they are, broken many international laws.
All this is such a stupid argument anyway, because EVEN IF the US is so much worse than China, MY POINT STILL STANDS. I am allowed to not want China to track me through my phone, even if I allow the US to do it (as you claim).
It’s very simple. Our two countries have a reciprocal extradition treaty.
Does an extradition treaty dictate that an armed raid take place?
Can China extradite me because I broke Chinese law?
If the answer to 2. is no then I have more to worry about the US than China.
We don’t have an extradition treaty with China. We do with the US. This isn’t hard to understand.
So what you saying is that I have nothing to worry about when it comes to China coming after me because I broke Chinese laws.
Are you suggesting that a country that has minorities in concentration camps, has waged cultural war on others, actively exploits poor nations, tracks and watches their entire population, domestically and abroad, locks up political opponents, disappears people critical to the government, detains foreign citizens and actively tries to subvert democracy in other countries is as bad as the US?
Oh that was a surprise. I was sure you were going to say “as bad as China” at the end of that.
Happens all the time does it?
yes it does.
I must have missed all those drone strikes in NZ, the UK and the EU.
They do what they call “extraordinary renditions” in those countries. The US agents break down your door, put a bag over your head and ship you off to some island to be tortured.
When has that ever happened here?
Hasn’t happened here yet that we know of. But it has happened in many other countries.
Man you have wildly missed the mark here. I never said I think he deserves to be a criminal, only that he is. He IS a massive international criminal because he has, no matter how dumb they are, broken many international laws.
No he is not a massive international criminal. No other nation has charges against him. But I get it you completely swallowed the right wing propaganda and think he is some sort of an international criminal mastermind who totally deserved to get raided.
All this is such a stupid argument anyway, because EVEN IF the US is so much worse than China, MY POINT STILL STANDS. I am allowed to not want China to track me through my phone, even if I allow the US to do it (as you claim).
You are allowed to do whatever you want no matter how racist or irrational it is. You are convinced the Chinese are going to get you, grab you and make you a prisoner or something and you believe the USA would never do anything like that to a NZ citizen despite the fact that the USA has done that and you told me we don’t have an extradition treaty with China.
I mean you sound like raving paranoid maniac.
I honestly have no idea what your problem is.
Right back at you. Why do you praise the USA so highly?
If the answer to 2. is no then I have more to worry about the US than China.
I travel to Asia fairly regularly. Am I being irrational? I never said you should stop using Chinese phones, only that I don’t want to use them.
So what you saying is that I have nothing to worry about when it comes to China coming after me because I broke Chinese laws.
As above. I never said you had to worry, only that I don’t want to. Then you came along trying to convince me that I’m wrong.
Oh that was a surprise. I was sure you were going to say “as bad as China” at the end of that.
No, because the US does not do all of that.
yes it does.
Lol, sure mate. Ok.
They do what they call “extraordinary renditions” in those countries. The US agents break down your door, put a bag over your head and ship you off to some island to be tortured.
You need to stop watching spy movies as if they were documentaries.
No he is not a massive international criminal. No other nation has charges against him. But I get it you completely swallowed the right wing propaganda and think he is some sort of an international criminal mastermind who totally deserved to get raided.
I never said I thought he deserved to be raided. I only said that, by law, the US is allowed to seek extradition to their country to stand trial. I never said I thought he should be charged with anything, or made any judgement call on the situation at all. Oh, and he was charged in Germany, so yes, he is international.
I love that you think I’m right wing.
You are allowed to do whatever you want no matter how racist or irrational it is. You are convinced the Chinese are going to get you, grab you and make you a prisoner or something and you believe the USA would never do anything like that to a NZ citizen despite the fact that the USA has done that and you told me we don’t have an extradition treaty with China.
I said none of those things, stop making shit up. I said “I don’t trust the Chinese government to not spy on me so I don’t use their phones”. This makes no mention of the US, or any of the other shit you’re on about. I can distrust more than one government. However, I have plenty of evidence, and first hand experience, of China’s spying program. Much less so the US.
I mean you sound like raving paranoid maniac.
Sure mate. Also, “racist” lol.
Right back at you. Why do you praise the USA so highly?
When have I praised the US? Seriously, what the fuck do you think I’ve been saying?
I travel to Asia fairly regularly. Am I being irrational?
Asia is a big place. Are you saying everyplace in Asia is under the control of the Chinese government or something? Are you afraid that if you travel to Japan or India or Vietnam or Thailand that Chinese agents are going to grab you?
Since you specifically said Asia and not China I am guessing you actually do think that and yes that makes you highly irrational. In fact I would say pretty fucking crazy.
s above. I never said you had to worry, only that I don’t want to.
But you live in NZ and you don’t have to worry either.
No, because the US does not do all of that.
All of that has been documented being done by the US. Honestly it looks like you only get your news from some weird facebook bubble where everybody is convinced the yellow menace is out to get them.
You need to stop watching spy movies as if they were documentaries
But you live in NZ and you don’t have to worry either.
I have friends and family in several asian countries and travel regularly in the region. Do not presume to know my situation.
All of that has been documented being done by the US. Honestly it looks like you only get your news from some weird facebook bubble where everybody is convinced the yellow menace is out to get them.
Lol, you have no idea what you are talking about. I feel no need to defend my political stance, but needless to say you are as wrong as is possible to be.
Wow. You really are ignorant aren’t you.
I’m well aware of this. You paint it as something that is happened all the time, and could happen to you any moment. But in reality, this practice is greatly reduced if not stopped altogether in many jurisdictions. It also targets suspected Islamic terrorists, not political dissidents.
The same thing happens with China, just not in many western countries so you probably aren’t aware of it.
Only one country is likely to do anything I’d a simply badmouth the government. Hint: it isn’t the US.
Walks like a duck, talks like a duck and all that.
You are perfectly capable of looking at my post history and seeing for yourself how wrong you are. But of course you won’t, because you can’t be wrong right?
I have friends and family in several asian countries and travel regularly in the region. Do not presume to know my situation.
Why do you keep saying “asian countries”. Do all asians look alike to you or something? Do you think all Asian countries are China or something?
I’m well aware of this.
no you aren’t. You denied it happened FFS.
You paint it as something that is happened all the time, and could happen to you any moment.
It has happened a lot and could happen to anybody at anytime. There is no legal process for this. All somebody has to do is to write your name on a piece of paper. There is no judicial oversight for extraordinary renditions.
But in reality, this practice is greatly reduced if not stopped altogether in many jurisdictions. It also targets suspected Islamic terrorists, not political dissidents.
So I should only be worried if I am a muslim or anybody I know is a muslim? You are saying the USA only targets muslims with this? You are wrong. Non muslims and indeed Americans have been rendered.
You are perfectly capable of looking at my post history and seeing for yourself how wrong you are. But of course you won’t, because you can’t be wrong right?
I judge you by what you say to me. You sound like a paranoid delusional MAGA idiot who is incapable of criticising the USA and is convinced China is out to get them.
Why do you keep saying “asian countries”. Do all asians look alike to you or something? Do you think all Asian countries are China or something?
Because I travel to more than one country, and I don’t really feel like I need to specify which. But in case you are interested: Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, and China are all countries I visit semi-regularly.
no you aren’t. You denied it happened FFS.
No I didn’t. I said, rather flippantly, “You need to stop watching spy movies as if they were documentaries.”
So I should only be worried if I am a muslim or anybody I know is a muslim? You are saying the USA only targets muslims with this? You are wrong. Non muslims and indeed Americans have been rendered.
Look, as I said before, even if you are right and the US is so much worse than China, it does not invalidate my point.
You can go around worrying that the US is going to snatch you up because you said “fuck Obama” a couple of times online. I honestly don’t give a shit.
I judge you by what you say to me. You sound like a paranoid delusional MAGA idiot who is incapable of criticising the USA and is convinced China is out to get them.
Lol, ok. Now I know there is no point in further engaging with you. You really are an idiot.
And you are convinced that if you travel to Japan or Singapore or Taiwan China is going to snag you right?
The chance is not 0. Do I think it is likely? No. Do I think it is marginally more likely than the US declaring I’m a terrorist? Yes.
Why? Because the Chinese government does it more than the US. Even if they didn’t, even if they were just as bad, or the US was much much worse, how does that invalidate my decision to use another brand of phone when I have that choice?
And the point of that wasn’t a denial?
Do I think it never happens? No. Do I think it will happen to me? No. Do I think China is more likely to? Yes, even if that chance is small.
Again, how does the US being a worse dictatorship than China invalidate my decision to not use a Chinese brand phone? Two things can be bad at once. One bad thing is better than two bad things.
I don’t understand how this is so hard for you to understand.
Anybody can be put on a terrorist list for any reason. There is no court oversight.
Your point? If you are trying to argue the US does bad things, I haven’t disagreed with you. If you are trying to say that, therefore, China is fine, well, that’s just whataboutism pure and simple.
No. Do I think it is marginally more likely than the US declaring I’m a terrorist? Yes.
Then you are completely delusional.
Why? Because the Chinese government does it more than the US.
Not even close. AFIK there are no documented instances of the Chinese government nabbing people overseas and there are numerous documented instances of the USA doing it.
Again, how does the US being a worse dictatorship than China invalidate my decision to not use a Chinese brand phone?
Because it’s irrational and based solely on some weird racist ideology.
Your point?
Your name can go on a terrorist list at any time. Hell you could have the same name as somebody on the terrorist list and you’ll get nabbed.
If you are trying to say that, therefore, China is fine, well, that’s just whataboutism pure and simple.
My only point is that you are an insane person who for some reason convinced himself that China is out to get him.
Then you are completely delusional. If you say so.
Not even close. AFIK there are no documented instances of the Chinese government nabbing people overseas and there are numerous documented instances of the USA doing it. You really don’t know what you’re talking about.
Because it’s irrational and based solely on some weird racist ideology. No it isn’t.
Your name can go on a terrorist list at any time. Hell you could have the same name as somebody on the terrorist list and you’ll get nabbed. Your point? How does this invalidate my decision not to use a Chinese phone?
My only point is that you are an insane person who for some reason convinced himself that China is out to get him. Lol, of course, I’m insane because I don’t agree with you.
If you need to think I’m paranoid and racist to feel better about yourself, go right ahead. I couldn’t care less.
While I share your concerns about local spying, giving a foreign entity a real time feed of every street, every passing licenseplate (via on board cameras) etc. seems like a bad idea. You should absolutely be vigilant against your own government as well. But China has shown many times in the past to use whatever means available to gather data for example on dissidents living abroad. That’s not a silly worry, it’s a daily occurrence.
While I share your concerns about local spying, giving a foreign entity a real time feed of every street, every passing licenseplate (via on board cameras) etc. seems like a bad idea
Did you mean say “foreign entity” or “China”. Because we already give that information to a foreign entity, multiple foreign agencies in fact.
But China has shown many times in the past to use whatever means available to gather data for example on dissidents living abroad. That’s not a silly worry, it’s a daily occurrence.
It’s a silly worry for me because I am not a chinese dissident living abroad.
Well that’s up to you. I’m no dissident either but I have family in Taiwan so you’ll understand if I take it more personally. China can easily decide you (or your neighbors) need spying on for reasons unknown to you.
Well that’s up to you. I’m no dissident either but I have family in Taiwan so you’ll understand if I take it more personally.
Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?
China can easily decide you (or your neighbors) need spying on for reasons unknown to you.
I am 100% convinced they are spying on as many people as possible but I am also 100% convinced that the number of people they spy on is much less than the number of people the USA is spying on. I am 100% convinced that the USA is spying on me, is recording this conversation, records my phone calls, and has a history of every web site I visited and what I did at those web sites and every call I made and every text I sent. I don’t think the Chinese intelligence agencies have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have. Not even close.
Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?
In Taiwan itself? No. When they transit through China, or friendly countries? Yes, emphatically.
I am 100% convinced they are spying on as many people as possible but I am also 100% convinced that the number of people they spy on is much less than the number of people the USA is spying on. I am 100% convinced that the USA is spying on me, is recording this conversation, records my phone calls, and has a history of every web site I visited and what I did at those web sites and every call I made and every text I sent. I don’t think the Chinese intelligence agencies have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have. Not even close.
You would be wrong about most of this. The Chinese government has one of the most sophisticated spying networks in the world. Remember this: all large Chinese companies have CCP officers with complete access to all information.
I feel like you haven’t been to the US. Companies collect personal info, yes, but the US government isn’t out there wiretapping the entire world. Real life isn’t like the CIA movies, mate.
In Taiwan itself? No. When they transit through China, or friendly countries? Yes, emphatically.
Well I am neither Taiwanese nor am I traveling through China so…
You would be wrong about most of this.
I don’t think so. The exploits of the NSA have been widely reported. Nowhere close to the USA or even Israel.
Remember this: all large Chinese companies have CCP officers with complete access to all information.
All US companies are subject to US laws which allow for full and free access to all information from those companies. Aside from that the NSA has code in all the routers, all the sim cards, all the hard drive firmware etc. Again all this has been widely published.
I feel like you haven’t been to the US.
I have actually but I don’t see why that’s relevant. You really think people gain knowledge once they step off the airplane into the USA?
. Companies collect personal info, yes, but the US government isn’t out there wiretapping the entire world.
It sounds like you are not very aware of what’s been happening.
Well I am neither Taiwanese nor am I traveling through China so…
So you only care about yourself?
I don’t think so. The exploits of the NSA have been widely reported. Nowhere close to the USA or even Israel.
Yes, you are. Both of those countries have large intelligence programs, yes. So does the CCP. And, as I mentioned elsewhere, they don’t have to even pretend to follow the law. China is a massive surveillance state.
But sure mate, China fine, US big bad scary. Got it.
All US companies are subject to US laws which allow for full and free access to all information from those companies. Aside from that the NSA has code in all the routers, all the sim cards, all the hard drive firmware etc. Again all this has been widely published.
The CCP has no laws it needs to follow. The US government does. It needs reasons to get information on you, and the information it can get is limited. And no, the NSA, doesn’t. Some systems allows access, but not “all routers etc”. That’s conspiracy theory territory I’m afraid.
It sounds like you are not very aware of what’s been happening.
I care mostly about myself. Just like you care mostly about yourself. You certainly don’t use the same criteria against any other country.
Yes, you are. Both of those countries have large intelligence programs, yes. So does the CCP. And, as I mentioned elsewhere, they don’t have to even pretend to follow the law. China is a massive surveillance state.
USA is much worse, much more pervasive, much more massive.
But sure mate, China fine, US big bad scary. Got it.
China bad, USA is worse.
The CCP has no laws it needs to follow.
Same goes for the USA.
It needs reasons to get information on you, and the information it can get is limited.
Nope. It gathers mass information all the time. This conversation is being recorded by the USA because all traffic on the internet is being recorded by them. They didn’t need to ask anybody.
I am, I’m just not a paranoid conspiracy nut.
You are more paranoid than me but also racist from the looks of it.
I care mostly about myself. Just like you care mostly about yourself. You certainly don’t use the same criteria against any other country.
I have empathy for many people. I care about all lives. I never once said I hold this view exclusively about China. We were talking about Chinese cars, so I said I don’t trust them.
USA is much worse, much more pervasive, much more massive.
Disagree. You should spend time in Asia and talk to the people there, follow the news, etc. You might learn something.
China bad, USA is worse.
Ok, so how does that invalidate me not wanting a Chinese car or a Chinese cellphone exactly? Since that’s how this started…
Same goes for the USA.
No, this is wrong. The government can do a lot, yes, but it is not a dictatorship.
Nope. It gathers mass information all the time. This conversation is being recorded by the USA because all traffic on the internet is being recorded by them. They didn’t need to ask anybody.
It really isn’t, but whatever.
You are more paranoid than me but also racist from the looks of it.
Do you? Even about Palestinians and Yemeni and Saudi Arabians?
Yes, of course. Why do you keep bringing them up? What do they have to do with Chinese cars? I genuinely don’t understand why you are on about this.
Disagree all you want. The fact that NSA has software in all routers and hard drive firmware and sim cards has been widely reported.
No, it is reported they put backdoors in US-made routers. Your claims of “all” are nonsense.
But even if we agree on this fact, I am less concerned about it. Why? Because I can badmouth the US government and have no fear of being detained if I travel there. The same cannot be said about China, as another poster has already pointed out.
Sure I guess. Is China arresting or kidnapping people in Taiwan or something?
I haven’t heard of people being abducted from Taiwan, but friends were detained while transferring flights in Hong Kong over some China-critical social media posts.
… have the same capability or reach that the US intelligence agencies have
Fair but while America is far from squeaky clean, I’ve never avoided traveling via one of their airports for fear of something I said about their president on social media. And if they did I wouldn’t, except in extreme cases, disappear from the face of the earth with my family having no idea what happened to me. China does these things routinely. Even to very prominent members of their own society.
Look if you say “I’m not involved, it’s not my problem” that’s fair enough. But to say there’s no difference between the US (which I fully acknowledge does lots of bad things) and China is missing the plot a bit.
Fair but while America is far from squeaky clean, I’ve never avoided traveling via one of their airports for fear of something I said about their president on social media. And if they did I wouldn’t, except in extreme cases, disappear from the face of the earth with my family having no idea what happened to me. China does these things routinely. Even to very prominent members of their own society.
This is exactly the point. Both are bad, but one plays by no rules whatsoever, while the other at least pays lip service to them.
Absolutely, but those are parts which are subject to overseas QA, standards and testing. For example, I have a Toyota. Chinese made parts must meet their strict quality control, must adhere to safety standards, etc.
I know first hand that, in China, regulations and standards can be bypassed with the correct payments. I do not trust that they have not done so, especially when there are other, better, choices.
We are talking about a country that has things like Melamine laced baby formula quite frequently. How did these things pass regulators and testing? Bribary.
I know first hand that, in China, regulations and standards can be bypassed with the correct payments. I do not trust that they have not done so, especially when there are other, better, choices.
The cars that are exported here must meet our standards.
I never said anyone else had to listen to me. I said, originally, that I wouldn’t drive a Chinese company.
And I want to be very clear here. I don’t hate China. I greatly distrust the Chinese government, and the culture of bribary, lying, cheating and scamming that has gone along with it. I also do not hate it because it’s popular to do so online. I have this view because of direct, personal, experience with Chinese companies and the government there.
Simply put, Chinese companies have and will make important stuff out of sub-par materials to make a buck, and lie, cheat and bribe their way to market. And then people die. This is not paranoia, this is something that happens all the time there.
Companies in China regularly cut corners. I don’t think they are actively trying to kill me, I never said that. I said I don’t trust that they are made as they say they are. I don’t trust that the vehicle I buy is the same as the one that was tested by encap, or was sent to the regulators to ensure it complied.
This is not because I’m racist, or hate Chinese people, or anything. This is from experience, but personal and historical, about the culture of corner cutting, cheating, lying and bribery, that is normalized in China.
To be very clear, I have lived and worked in China. I am not just talking out of my ass.
You mean the people who work in those companies right?
Well yes, I suppose it is the workers and management who are cutting corners. What’s your point?
But if they are cutting corners they are actively trying to kill you.
No, they are trying to save a buck. They might not care about the consequences, or they might think it will all be fine, or something else. They aren’t sitting around, rubbing their hands with glee and laughing about how many kiwis they will kill.
So what you are saying is that they people who built this car were actively trying to kill anybody who drove the car.
Again, no.
Let me give you an example. There was a scandal in 2008 where a company manufacturing baby formula was adding chemicals so that lab tests would show it had higher protein count. The chemical led to kidney damage in infants, with over 50,000 being hospitalized.
Do I think that company was trying to kill kids? No. They were trying to make more money, damn the consequences.
Well yes, I suppose it is the workers and management who are cutting corners. What’s your point?
So you hate all the people who work in all the companies in China.
No, they are trying to save a buck. T
No they are trying to kill you. They know they are going to kill every person who buys a chinese car. You said it yourself. Chinese cars are not safe because people who work in Chinese companies are building cars that will kill the people who buy them.
They aren’t sitting around, rubbing their hands with glee and laughing about how many kiwis they will kill.
Of course not. They sell cars all over the world and are going to kill every person who buys a chinese car anywhere in the world.
Let me give you an example. There was a scandal in 2008 where a company manufacturing baby formula was adding chemicals so that lab tests would show it had higher protein count. The chemical led to kidney damage in infants, with over 50,000 being hospitalized.
So yes then. The people who work in all chinese companies are just like these people and all products made in china are just like this baby formula. All chinese products will kill or make people sick because chinese people who work in those companies want to kill the people who buy those products right?
So you hate all the people who work in all the companies in China.
I never said that, what the fuck are you on about?
No they are trying to kill you. They know they are going to kill every person who buys a chinese car. You said it yourself. Chinese cars are not safe because people who work in Chinese companies are building cars that will kill the people who buy them.
Now you are being an idiot.
Of course not. They sell cars all over the world and are going to kill every person who buys a chinese car anywhere in the world.
You continue being an idiot.
So yes then. The people who work in all chinese companies are just like these people and all products made in china are just like this baby formula. All chinese products will kill or make people sick because chinese people who work in those companies want to kill the people who buy those products right?
I had a BEV on the budget for late this year (move banks to get a low-interest loan + some savings once the mortgage comes off fixed), isn’t practical with the price increase, so will back burner that plan for a couple of years and hope prices drop a bit
My thoughts too. From memory sales of double cab utes also surged immediately before and plummeted immediately after the prices went up as expected due to their high emissions.
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