What do you recommend as a good FOSS private and secure chat app on Android that isn't Signal?

I have nothing against Signal. I just don't have access to a phone number right now. I fully intend to use the Signal when I get a number. I know there is no silver bullet, no absolutes in the privacy world but I'm looking for any messengers that are generally considered to be private and secure on Android that I can try to convince my friends and family to use. I have a mid - low threat model, it's just the thought of giving the Zuck anymore of my family's data makes my skin crawl.

moreeni,

https://www.privacyguides.org/en/real-time-communication/

Hyperi0n,
@Hyperi0n@lemm.ee avatar

Thank you, I'll check this out.

darcy,
@darcy@sh.itjust.works avatar

ive heard briar and session are good

MigratingtoLemmy,

Session

jdrm,

Have you try Cwtch? https://cwtch.im/

I installed today. It looks fine.

F4stL4ne,
@F4stL4ne@programming.dev avatar

Jami https://jami.net/ Messenger app from the free software fondation.

dontblink,
@dontblink@feddit.it avatar

Self host your own istance of Matrix

Gleddified,

I do have something against signal! Phone number, removing SMS support, MobileCoin, lack of federation...

Sadly, my friends/family are sick of swapping and I've found element/session to be unreliable or overly complex, so I stick with Signal because it's still much better than SMS.

73kk13,
@73kk13@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Not free, but (finally) open source: Threema Libre

DictatorGator,

You could try Session. It makes a session ID like this https://feddit.de/pictrs/image/3bda9555-0605-4acb-b449-28596ac1a0e6.jpeg. This can be used to contact people or for people to contact you. I’ve used it to talk to my SO a bunch of times.

matogoro,
@matogoro@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Huge fan of Session. I think it really hits the sweet spot of being user-accessible (including iOS, Android, and desktop clients with notifications) with a solid encrypted messaging base using Tor-like onion routing.

I've been slowly migrating my friends and family over to it (with varying degrees of tech literacy) and have had few issues so far.

DictatorGator,

It has been a huge ask to get my family to use Signal instead of Whatsapp, they are somewhat tech literate. To change again to Session would be even more of a big ask, So I'm not going to bother 🤣🤣

But as you said the availability of Apps on all platforms, the ease of setup and the solid encryption is what makes it good. Its a shame that not many people know about it, same for SimpleX chat.

TechnologyClassroom,

FSF India made a visual chart comparing messaging applications.

Equinox,

Signal is great, Element (matrix) is great, but I personally think SimpleX did a fantastic job so far, and I really want them to succeed.

shadeless, (edited )
@shadeless@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

SimpleX seems cool, never heard of it before (they have bad SEO, I think the name doesn't help)

Only thing that keeps me from using it right now is the missing multi device support. But apparently, that is something the devs want to implement sometime.

Have to keep an eye on it, thanks!

dngray,
@dngray@lemmy.one avatar

While SimpleX is good for small groups, unfortunately it doesn't really have desktop apps yet.

cambionn, (edited )
@cambionn@feddit.nl avatar

I guess Matrix would be your best option then. I use Schildichat as client, which is a fork of Element with some extras.

But if you can't get a plan, why not get a prepaid burner SIM? You can buy a prepaid card for minimal amount and you generally keep the number at least for a year, and you put in 5~10 euro each year you can keep it active endlessly.

A lot of things require a phone number. Here, the goverment needs you to have one, but also most workplaces and even the DHL. Getting a cheap trow-away sim isn't a bad option. Especially since pre-paid SIMs aren't connected to your name like those on a plan are.

BigTechBlows,

There are many regions where ID has to be shown inorder to active a sim.

postmeridiem,

If you have to give up your phone number to register why would you get Signal over Telegram? All the people you aren't supposed to talk to are on Telegram and not Signal, so if you're giving up your phone number, why pick Signal? Because it's FOSS? What's the difference in outcome? Both end in a phone number request from the government that the service will comply with.

Hyperi0n,
@Hyperi0n@lemm.ee avatar

I don't have enough money for a phone number to give to any government agency much less to Signal. My phone ran out of service months ago and no one in my family is even able to re-up theirs much less spot me the scratch to help me with mine. In a perfect world where I could afford a cell phone plan I'd probably go for both honesty. They both have access to perks that I could use. But yeah I'd choose FOSS any and every day.

postmeridiem,

It was a general question, I was just wondering why you want to go on Signal so much rather than Telegram. I know Telegram requires scanning a captcha to join, is it the same on Signal? If not, then I recommend you try using a free SMS service to register on Signal.

Soullioness,
@Soullioness@lemmy.world avatar

I've done this using Google voice. But they're probably other options out there.

cambionn, (edited )
@cambionn@feddit.nl avatar

Because the threat isn't getting your number stolen, it's about the content of your messages. While the goverment cóuld ask your phone number, they likely already have it unless you got a prepaid trow away that you keep replacing regularily. And even then it cóuld be traced when used anywhere. What they can't get, is your messages. At least not decrypted unless you give it to them yourself. And those are way more interesting. But it's not even about the goverment per se, it's for everything from data hungry companies to your old crazy ex.

Telegram sends everything plain text and stores that on their servers. One man-in-the-middle and we got everything you've said.

WhatsApp says they have E2EE but is propietary and non-checkable, and from Meta who has a rep for finding ways to secretly and unlawfully grab data. Even if you (foolishly) trust them, they do grab metadata from your messages.

Signal isn't about it being FOSS, but about privacy. FOSS just means it's checkable, which is good for security and privacy. They have E2EE not only on message content but also on metdata (unlike most alternatives who only do message contents), do external audits, and are part of a non-profit (which means showing how money is received and spend).

avalanche,

Not the OP, but from a privacy perspective, I would pick Signal over Telegram. They both have some issues, but Telegram is not E2EE by default and is a bit if a pain to use E2EE consistently. And yet, Telegram claims to be super secure, etc. There are a bunch of other issues there as well. I'm not saying Signal is the best privacy tool out there. But, between the two, I trust Telegram a lot less.

noodlejetski,

https://signal.org/bigbrother/

Hyperi0n,
@Hyperi0n@lemm.ee avatar

Does anyone have any recommendations for Element chat groups to join? All I find when I DuckDuckGo it is recommended clients that use Matrix, coding stuff, or weird sounding mathematical principles. Any groups involving FOSS discussions or ttrpgs would be great!

Hyperi0n,
@Hyperi0n@lemm.ee avatar

I would have made a new post but I didn't want to seem like I'm hogging the bandwidth on this group by posting so close together so I asked here. Hopefully that's okay. You've all been so helpful, thank you guys.

Hyperi0n,
@Hyperi0n@lemm.ee avatar

Yeah you know what, nah not touching Element. I joined the biggest RPG group on the site and it was all proud boys and the most professional looking InfoSec discussion board with over 1800 people is a dead group where people spammed gore pictures. Screw that, Element is a cesspool. Simplex is the winner Ding, ding ding, ding! I'm closing up shop now, I need to wash out my eyes

pootriarch,
@pootriarch@poptalk.scrubbles.tech avatar

the one thing after playing with simplex, the 'no central id' is excellent for absolute privacy and they've implemented it a clever way. that id does let me resume a conversation between desktop and phone, using signal or xmpp. if it's possible with simplex i think i'd have to make a group (and that's only mobile to mobile, as simplex looks mobile-only)

sounddrill,

Xonotic's offtopic for geopolitics ;)

Jk, it's a chat for the foss game on pc

wagesj45,
wagesj45 avatar

XMPP. It's an old standard, there are servers you can get an account with or you can host your own. And with OMEMO encryption everything is end to end encrypted.

mr_pip,
@mr_pip@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

thank you! i was surprised not to see that one way more often. i guess it is, because ios doesnt have such a good client as conversations for android.

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