If someone says "Fox News caused this", they're invoking mind control, which is not real. Fox had to work within an existing system of values to create derived ideas. We can also work within that system of values.
Lately, I've noticed the dialog has become "climate change is destroying the world, yes, but it's fine because it's God's plan.
My dad's stance was that we should focus on "mitigations" instead of "controlling" it. e.g. We should build sea walls instead of geoengineering (implied: or reducing emissions).
Digging deeper, he believes that it's that it's "the tribulation", and if so there's nothing we can do to stop it because it's part of the prophecy in the book of Revelations.
My aunt had a much lighter take — the early spring flowers we got are a sign from God (implied: his blessing is on us)
Note: Fox doesn't directly push religious agenda, so this is clearly coming from somewhere else. I can tell you, it's from decades of growing up in a church that has a rather extreme interpretation of the Bible
There's also a tie-in to health issues. My dad and my uncle (and probably people you know too) have severe health problems (diabetes, COPD, etc.) that are caused by their own life choices and can also be mitigated by changing their behavior — they refuse. My dad doesn't give a reason, my uncle says that God can heal him so there's no need for doctors. These are real people, I assure you
All this is born within a system of beliefs, and you can also reason with them about it within that same system of beliefs.
With my dad, I use the argument that God doesn't forgive sins without repentance, so it can't be God's plan to save us from our own mistakes without us at least wanting to change our behavior
Earlier I mentioned "the tribulation" without explaining it. The tribulation is a part of a prophecy in the last book of the Bible that many believe explains how the world will end, and how God will come back and create a new world
There's also more context — in Genesis, the first book of the Bible, God destroys the world with a flood and gives us the rainbow as his promise that he won't destroy the world again.
So clearly God isn't destroying the world, because he said he wouldn't
We can make real progress through their own value system, like this.
Note that even Fox News, as evidence in the court case, couldn't change the trends they created on a whim, they have to work within the value system of their viewers. There really isn't any other way to convince someone of an idea, you absolutely must work within their assumptions & values
I cringe every time people trash religion — regardless if you believe it or not, it's a strong system of values that is currently being used to drive people into selfishly destroying the world. But it can also be used to get us out of this mess.
We need more liberal preachers, ministers, & other religious leaders who can meet people on their level to make real change.
@kellogh I'm sorry Tim. Sincerely. It's painful watching people justify bad choices using religion (and seeing them get hurt by those choices, or hurting others). As an escapee from fairly-extremist Christianity myself (now a card-carrying atheist), I can relate to them. But I have no answers or suggestions on how to help them see the error of their ways. I can't even really explain how/why I escaped the clutches of religion (i.e. why me, but so many of my friends not).
@leoncowle i think it's worthwhile viewing your experience as a gift — now you understand the value system, so you can craft an argument that resonates with them.
There's plenty of studies showing that mere facts aren't enough to convince someone. I haven't heard enough about framing the facts within the listener's value system. My hunch is that any fact could be internalized by anyone, if you can find a way for them to understand it without changing their values
@nuncio I added more posts to the thread. Generally, I don't think that's consistent with their belief system, and I think we could get a lot further by working within their belief system to point out logical inconsistencies
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