crschmidt,
@crschmidt@better.boston avatar

Looks like Cambridge just published (today) their Mass Ave rebuild "Why does this cost $50M?" document. While it's helpful to some extent, it still sets a baseline of $10M/mile for surface road improvements, which seems impressively high.
https://www.cambridgema.gov/-/media/Files/publicworksdepartment/Engineering/cityprojects/MassAve4/2023_05_26_MassAvePC_50MFINAL.pdf

crschmidt,
@crschmidt@better.boston avatar

I don't know what goes into milling a road and repaving it, but my rough understanding of costs of something like that were $1M/mile. The urban environment certainly includes difficulties that aren't present in other situations, but this still feels like a huge gap that I don't quite understand.

wordshaper,
@wordshaper@weatherishappening.network avatar

@crschmidt That's my expectation. Mass Ave is wider and there's all sorts of traffic diversion stuff they have to do, but I can't see that taking the cost past $4M/mile.

Clearly Cambridge assumes otherwise and hopefully that amount is mostly reasonable. Which makes it frankly impressive and scary, and definitely makes me think more conversions-to-bike/ped-space would be a significant savings for the city. (Especially Mass Ave, open it up for al fresco dining and park space and stuff)

wordshaper,
@wordshaper@weatherishappening.network avatar

@crschmidt Yow! That's insane. I thought the generally assumed cost was about $1M/mile? I'd figure that it'd be more expensive for Mass Ave for all sorts of understandable reasons, but still.

I wonder how much it'd cost to just turn half of Mass Ave into a pedestrian/bike path and leave cars to have the other side? I suspect the cost per person-mile would be a lot lower, at the very least.

crschmidt,
@crschmidt@better.boston avatar

@wordshaper There are a lot of problems with doing that, but one that stands out to me is "Mass Ave is a hugely important bus transportation corridor", with the 77 carrying 5000 weekday riders daily even post-pandemic (8000 daily pre-pandemic). I don't think we can reduce the ROW by half and still have the access for (e.g. delivery) vehicles we need and an opportunity for bus priority lanes, which are definitely needed.

wordshaper,
@wordshaper@weatherishappening.network avatar

@crschmidt Ah, right, point.

...so cut it in half as proposed but restrict it to bus/commercial traffic?

crschmidt,
@crschmidt@better.boston avatar

@wordshaper In practice, because Mass Ave is a state highway (Route 2A), there are some things that the city can't do, even if they had the political will to be radical (which we largely do not).

In practice, I am hopeful that we can achieve enough of a road diet that drivers don't consider Mass Ave. a useful road to take for short trips; if we could achieve that, even while maintaining current width, I'd be pleased, and I think it's possible.

wordshaper,
@wordshaper@weatherishappening.network avatar

@crschmidt Having driven Mass Ave in the past I frankly worry deeply about anyone who thinks it's a useful road to take for anything. (Obligatory, sometimes, but never useful)

I'm sure you're right about the state highway-ness putting limits on what can be done, and I bet that's part of the reason for the stupidly high estimated costs too.

Ah, well, I can dream of a time when Mass Ave is a pleasure to drive and I also never ever have to drive it again.

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