can anyone please explain to me what is this protest about, if users can request personal API key with 100 requests per minute limit, which is more than enough for pretty much every user
as I see it devs wanna use shared key, make money and not pay to Reddit or pay as much they want instead just letting users enter their own personal API key and be done with all this
I don't care about fixing Reddit and I don't care about teaching Reddit a lesson. I don't care if the site buckles or continues to hold on and grow while they regulalry downgrade their service as they have been doing for the 10 years I've been an active user. No protest of anything Reddit has done has ever caused Reddit to reconsider what they're doing. Reddit does not care about anything because it's not a person. It's a business entity which will attempt by any means to maximise profit. Having a functional website or having human users or moderation at all are not strictly necessary to secure investment or generate ad revenue. Doing what investors want them to do, regardless of the actual effect it may have long-term, is what will get them investment now. That is more important to Reddit than everything else put together. There's no mastermind, no one's at the wheel, no idiot is unilaterally making decisions like a king. There's only the inevitable consequences of the collective decisions of businesspeople participating in corporate capitalism.
The main reason I don't care is that I don't have to care anymore. The Fediverse has been a breath of fresh air after a very long time.
no idiot is unilaterally making decisions like a king.
Every decision is made by one person or a party of people specifically saying "Yes" to it. Whether they are "idiot[s]" is up for debate, but every single event involving anything artificial is decided by a person/people, not merely a faceless system.
I don't care about fixing reddit either, I don't care if it lives or dies, not anymore, tho it wouldn't be bad IMO teaching the CEO a lesson in humility.
This is just my personal opinion. The 2 day blackout for me, never meant for people to pack their bags and leave Reddit entirely. It's not a very easy task to do, and honestly, there is still lots of contents and friends back in reddit. Reddit can be sure that lots of people will simply come back, and spez will grinning while working his way to his beloved IPO.
However, the 2 day blackout has opened a new world of alternatives to Reddit. Now people know other places and other communities that can replace Reddit as a whole. Yes, Reddit will still be an influential website. Yes, Reddit will still be money driven. Yes, spez will not budge. But we can.
To me, Reddit will not crash, burn and crushed to ash. But rather, it's either went the FB way, relying to lots of ads and ~~older demographics ~~ low-literacy to sustain, or simply becoming Myspace or Digg, a distant memory that's only in name.
Yeah I wouldn't have ever signed up for lemmy if this api thing hadn't come about. This is my first fediverse experience. I was pissed at reddit, but now I don't care about reddit one way or another. Lemmy has gained enough users to sustain itself even if there is no more mass migration. There is an active community here that will help lemmy grow organically over time.
Mastodon’s story feels pretty similar Starts off as a small project, Twitter becomes worse due to corporate capitalism, mass influx is users some of those stay. Twitter still exists, but mastodon now is known and used interchangeably.
I'm trying to figure out what kind of blackout you're talking about. I open up (oh my God, I feel like a heretic) Reddit and guess what? Hardly anything has changed on Reddit. My feed is still there. Yes, a grand total of five ever-fronting subs stopped working, ten more subs took a formal vote, and... it's still the same. Every social network goes the way of monetizing content. I first joined Reddit in 2015, at the time it was an incomprehensible pseudo-social network with an awkward interface. It took almost 18 years before Reddit became usable. But blackout is still a long way off. While kbin/lemmy is consolidated by the thought of blackout, but people can't stay in suspense for long.
It's still refreshing to see how many subreddits ended up joining the blackout. Over 8000 joined, including some big ones, and (as of posting) 6800 are still either private or restricted.
relying to lots of ads and older demographics low-literacy masses to sustain
FIFY
Among the "older demographics" there are the most "nerdy" people, those born when personal computers and the internet didn't exist, those growing up together with technology, used to a world when corporations didn't destroy the good of sharing knowledge.
Those are the people most likely to rebel to what reddit is doing and find their way out if it, because they know it's possible, because they've seen it before.
Youngest people are used to how the world is nowadays because it's all they've seen, but they can be shown the difference if they're willing to listen.
Low-literacy masses are those who don't listen because they don't care, people of that sort exist in every age "range" and are unfortunately the majority of content "consumers", that's why Facebook(/Instagram/WhatsApp) doesn't die, and Reddit won't either most probably.
Reddit relies on user generated content, so it if the few users who actually generate entertaining stuff take their business elsewhere it will go the way of Myspace and DIgg. Because there is already a Facebook for old people.
I can't blame him if he wants his app to survive. I used the pro version for years and would happily payed the planed subscription. But because the vast majority, if not all of the money goes to Reddit I just can't bring myself to do it. I hope his calculations are correct and if they are not, I hope he doesn't falls into dept.
I can't blame the 3P Devs for dealing with this situation as they see fit. It feels like shooting the messenger ...
The Internet was supposed to be better, but it turned into another set of monthly bills. And caving in to Reddit's gouging sets a dangerous precedent, because it normalizes the smearing of devs that brought us here.
I didn't know api changes means 3rd party apps no longer can show nsfw content. Nobody's going to pay a subscription and not be able to see stuff that they can see on the official app. Looks like reddit is giving all 3rd party app developers a shitty deal whichever way you cut it.
I don't know how to feel about this, that's the app I use and was mad about losing... I already bought the paid version a long time ago but now it's moving to a subscription model so I guess that doesn't count anymore...
The base subscription could cost $2 per month, with an extra $1 for message notifications to account for the additional API calls that such polling incurs.
I just had a Rollercoaster of emotions. I was sad and angry to see relay go be sure it's been with me for idk how long (more than 10 years? Has it been that long?). But then losing relay would severely cut my reddit time and lemmy being a lot smaller meant that I could potentially kick this habit. So was kind of excited.
Then I read your message that relay is not going and I'm like "fuck! My addiction will never be cured!" Then saw its a subscription model and now I'm really conflicted.
I'm in the same boat. It was my go-to app, and at first, I was happy that it will stay open - but during the last few days, I realized more and more... I don't care anymore. Not about relay, but about reddit itself.
I've uninstalled relay on sunday - and never missed it on my phone. I just stopped wasting time and did better things with my time. At this point in time, I can't see myself putting out $2 a month just to get angry at ragebait again.
The relay creator did the math and came to the conclusion that an subscription model might maybe work but it would be to tight. It reads as the person is saying that it is unfeasonable.
You say he gave in? As far as I can read that is stated nowhere.
Even if the apps would comply;
Reddit will jack the prices again when they see fit.
Reddit also wins with this pricing because they are gonna pocket the cash.
>Reddit will limit 'Recommend' and NFSW content to its official app. >
And ohw yeah you are gonna get less content for your subscription. It is all in bad faith.
I think that a forced paid subscription will probably kill it anyway long term, who in their right mind would pay a subscription to access Reddit?
Also don't forget that these app owners themselves are running a business and probably make a bunch of money from their apps that they don't want to see evaporate with the changes.
Another good point he made is about how he's calculating this. He's projecting current usage into the sub model.
But he's probably very right that casuals will probably leave and power users will probably pay. So it's the Spotify problem, your power users use you more costing you more but they don't pay more so you start going in the red. Considering relay is not a VC backed app or anything like that. One miscalculation and one bad month and you could see thousands of dollars in surprise costs.
This is a sub that could really benefit from just leaving reddit entirely anyways. Potentially being able to have more open discussions centered around piracy would make the content of that sub so much better.
Just have to say: Has anyone notice that Beehaw is just way faster then Reddit? Sorry new here, just my first impression. By the way. Thanks everyone for this site.
Yes, when I first got on mid-day it way crazy fast. It has slowed down a bit for me as the day has gone on but still faster then typical Reddit speeds. I wonder if beehaw load is more late afternoon and evening, or if it is just more people flocking in, or maybe both.
This has been absolutely wild. Sadly, it's not that surprising and the corporate speak is strong. While Reddit likely won't change, the "type" of users that will leave over this is the kind of users that made Reddit the community it is today. These are all likely active members from Fark, Slashdot, Digg, and others.
Good news though, we've got a group of people that are experienced in making fantastic communities. I'll bet we'll do it again. We'll see how this goes with the Fedditverse/Threadverse via Lemmy/kbin. I'm sure we'll figure this community/magazine thing out soon enough.
Sometimes all we can control is how we react to the situation.
I find it a bit disheartening that a lot of comments on Reddit (I know I'm mostly staying away) are labeling us, the people who take issue with not only the API pricing but the entire direction the site is going, snowflakes and whiny babies.
A lot of "I don't cares" and "I just want to use the site not see this useless protest" etc. I remember a time when reddit could come together and actually get results (for better and for worse).
Even the way people comment is different. Seems like a lot more low effort, mouth breather posts, or suspiciously bad faith arguments that I see in response to the increasingly rare thoughtful/informative dialogue in the form of posts or comments.
I'm not saying the site was ever an iconic standard to the peak intellectual, but there seemed to be more people hungry for that type of content.
Maybe I'm just looking back at everything through rose tinted glasses, but I miss the days of ending up going down a new rabbithole sparked by a random comment chain.
I wonder if it's just me and I'm just turning into that old bitter dude longing for the "good ole days."
That's reddit from 8+ years ago you're talking about, and small communities. Reddit has long been a mainstream community now, and we all know how the average person is.
AskHistorians is taking the approach of “blackout for two days, then read-only moving forward indefinitely.” I think that’s a good approach as it still removes the functionality of the subreddit while reminding people of what they’re missing out on due to the admins’ actions.
I know there are bigger subs, but AskHistorians is an absolute jewel in Reddit’s crown. For all the dumpster fire subs that raise controversy and drag Reddit’s image down, AskHistorians is the one sub that could always be pointed to as a sub with an inarguably positive impact. It’s also a sub in a unique position because its moderators are probably the hardest for Reddit to replace, because many of them are the historians that answer the questions, or have personal relationships with those that do. In addition most of the historians aren’t really Redditors, participating only on AskHistorians. Removing the current mod team and replacing them would absolutely 100% kill the sub forever.
Not that I have any faith in Reddit to do the right thing. I just think it’s interesting to realize just how different of a position AskHistorians in than the rest of the subreddits, being at the same time more impactful than their subscriber numbers show, while being fragile enough to be permanently broken if handled poorly. They are also one of the only mod teams I’ve see who have issued a list of actionable goals that Reddit can address.
Also it’s interesting to see that their participation in the blackout is almost entirely on Spez’s head. That’s some damn fine CEOing there, Lou.
The askhistorians subreddit and it's mod team are absolute gems, I was able to attend one of their talks at a conference and it was honestly one of the best presentations I've seen at these types of events. It is giant loss to the academic community to have them shut down tbh, and I hope they are able to migrate and keep their audience.
But then again knowing Reddit, if they migrate u/spez will probably allow Holocaust deniers to take up the space or something.
I'm glad to see there's been more of a push for previously '48 hours only' subreddits to move to an indefinite blackout - but I wish that more of them had committed earlier. That leaked internal email shows exactly what I already expected; they just see the protesting Redditors as a bunch of whiny babies who they expect to give up after a couple days and forget the whole thing.
I’m not giving up. 11 year account deleted. I might read stuff on Reddit from time to time, but it will be without an account, in a private tab, through a vpn, with an ad blocker on.
i want to call complete BS on them making it out like the Redditors protesting would physically assault the staff. Guess that’s probably a reasonable thing now though. People are whacked in the head.
I thought that was quite an escalation also. But maybe their health & safety committee reccomended it. Probably just trying to make the workers feel embattled and unsafe so they would avoid engaging with the issues and stay to reddits side. Its a PUA kind of doublespeak; spez is the one actually making the threat. But in a way it seems to come from us.
To be a fly on the wall at the water cooler. Please reddit workers, leak a zoom call.
Seems on brand after the CEO doubled down on falsely accusing the Apollo dev of blackmail, even though the Apollo dev posted the recordings proving otherwise.
there are also a lot of subreddits that went readonly. which doesn't hurt much. when the first google result for something is a functional readonly reddit page, reddit has succeeded. When the first result I click is a message about the issue we're facing that is much worse for reddit.
At the same time, the couple of subs posting the images and only the images are causing /r/all to have some anti-reddit commentary.
Either way, r/all doesnt look that different. Ok, normal-reddit-for-thing isnt on the front page, instead smaller-reddit-for-thing is there.
I'm sure moderators will plan more, but I think it's going to be difficult to maintain coordination and whether I like it or not, I get reddits approach to just ignore this.
There’s a lot of noise with this one. Among the noisiest we’ve seen. Please know that our teams are on it, and like all blowups on Reddit, this one will pass as well. The most important things we can do right now are stay focused, adapt to challenges, and keep moving forward. We absolutely must ship what we said we would. The only long term solution is improving our product, and in the short term we have a few upcoming critical mod tool launches we need to nail.
That's an absolutely tone deaf response from spez. The talking points are exactly what I expected and I'm not surprised, but man, whoever's running PR at Reddit is really dropping the ball.
If they do IPO, anyone who buys into it wholeheartedly deserves the deep losses the company will incur long term - it seems no-one on Reddit's leadership team, or anyone egging the company to float, understands what makes their own product tick.
We all know that users are going to come flooding back as soon as the closed subs open again. Reddit has been through controversy after controversy and has only grown in size. The truth is that most people on Reddit don't really care about third party apps, a lot didn't even know they existed before the Apollo dev spilled the tea on his conversations with Reddit. Spez knows this and is counting on it.
For this protest to have any teeth at all, the protesting subs need to stay blacked out indefinitely until Reddit starts negotiating realistically, or they start hemorrhaging users to alternative platforms.
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