Wait, I thought he was just bullshitting his fans with that. He’s actually serious? XD
Also, I don’t understand what this has to do with bare metal construction of the Cybertruck and why that should present exceptional difficulties. DeLorean figured out how to make bare metal cars more than forty years ago, so it can’t be that hard.
DeLorean also didn’t use flat panels on the body. Though it might look like it at first glance, none of the DeLorean panels were flat, they all had a slight curve.
All metal panels are gonna flex a bit in the changing temperatures.
I’m not sure if you’re trying to be sarcastic or not, but look closely at the DeLorean, none of the panels were completely flat, they all had at least a subtle curve to them.
I would think it was largely for sake of the style he was going for, plus even the most subtle defects in a perfectly flat shiny surface become way more obvious and stick out like a sore thumb.
Also, I don’t think it’s a really good idea to have what’s basically a rolling mirror going down the road, at certain angles the sunlight will blind other drivers and pedestrians all that much more.
Your mistake was actually assuming that there is any discernible difference between a Musk statement he considers serious, and bullshit. They are the same.
These tolerances are very possible to hold while machining, but speaking from my perspective having been a machinist by trade for 20+ years, holding those tolerances for every single part on a vehicle is going to get prohibitively expensive really fucking fast.
He’s probably hyper self conscious about people ripping into Teslas over their clearances (with inconsistencies measured in millimetres). But, no, instead of saying “VW can produce stuff that doesn’t look like it fell from a truck and you will figure it out, too” he’s going overboard.
If we’re going overboard, why bother with cars at all? Just use this cheesy blueprint, make it work and solve all of humanity’s problems! This is what California should invest in instead of trains.
Eh, if someone tells me to reduce a tolerance from 5 to 10 thou at work, it’s understood that it’s +/-5 and 10. I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone use the full range of a tolerance in conversation. If the tolerance isn’t bilateral, it would be said like plus 5, minus zero. Anyways, +/- .0005" is our standard tolerance on the span of all dowel hole pairs.
On the dowel hole point, just measuring this stuff is going to take at the bare minimum an automated and purpose built CMM, which will drive the cost up even more. If we are to assume +/- 5 microns for every single part - we are talking about the level of manufacturing that Mitutoyo or Starrett have. This will be a multi-million dollar vehicle that noone would buy.
Well, in terms of for real metrology, you are correct. A better comparison would have been Brown and Sharpe. However, Starrett has more than enough reputation of everything that they produce being of a very high standard- primarily layout tools like calipers, precision levels, etc.
ETA: This could very well be my bias as an American showing. I know from experience that the fit and finish of a high end pair of Mitutoyo calipers have what I consider to be subpar to the Starrett equivalent in terms of fit and finish. There is also a $500 ish price difference which could also be a subconscious bias.
Bilateral tolerancing is a Machinist’s first introduction to tolerancing so it’s no surprise to run that as default. And I suppose GD&T is not heavily used where you are.
If you’re given a parallelism tolerance of 10 micron are you assuming that to be ±10 micron? True position? Angularity of 5 thou? Etc… The only feature control that could be interpreted as bilateral by default is profile and it’s still communicated by its total tolerance.
Simple ± tolerancing isn’t the industry standard anymore. And if Tesla prints are anything like spaceX ones… It’s basically all GD&T and minimal title block tolerances.
I use GD&T on all my drawings, including 100% of my hole callouts. However I’m one of the more enthusiastic adopters of ASME Y14.5 at the place I work. Therefore, I get what your saying regarding the tolerance range, but since most of my coworkers are still relying on block tolerances, I’ll refer to a .010" positional tolerance as a “+/- .005” equivalent" in conversation so there is no miscommunication. I can see how this is not the norm.
LOL. At the same price as the Lightning, there’s no way this could compete with Ford. I thought the point of the sharp angles was to make the truck super cheap. If it was $25k, I’d consider getting it not caring about what it looked like (as long as it was warrantied for mechanical failures). Just for a cheap new truck to haul shit and not worry about getting beat up.
Just like Steve Jobs and every other “visionary” all he does is demand things, have his engineers and factory slaves do their thing, and then go on stage and act like he personally minted every single cybertruck by hand. Any asshole can do the job of a visionary, actually, being an asshole is the only required skill.
I know it’s supposed to make them sound good and might indeed be meant for leaking, but all I can think of is the demands on quality assurance and risks of failures down the road if such precision is paramount for the operation of the vehicle and assumed by the teams building it.
So give me a less finicky vehicle, please, and leave that precision for devices not subject to highly varying road conditions at very high speeds and housing people.
Tolerance/precision is all about choosing an appropriate one for the task, to achieve the desired results.
I’m not an automotive engineer, but nothing immediately jumps to mind on an automobile where this level of precision would be necessary, or indeed even desirable.
This just makes me think about the Vietnam war, where the far more precision engineered M16A1 was widely criticized for its unreliable performance in the harsh jungle environment, while the AK-47… built to whatever is the opposite of high precision and tight tolerance, was an absolute workhorse. It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if there were still caches of dozens or even hundreds of AK-47s buried in the jungle since the mid 70s, that could be dug up and immediately used today.
On the whole, most products Lego builds are identical injection molded chunks of plastic, and not complicated cars filled with exotic materials like glass, steel and cobalt.
Only the hardest hitting journalism of the highest quality from Jalopnik. Who else would appreciate the difficulties encountered trying to incorporate exotic materials like glass and steel into a vehicle?
And they won’t, because that level of precision is stupid for this application, and not required. They can’t even come close to matching the quality and precision of larger auto makers, how and why would they require levels many times what those manufacturers have deemed necessary?
Classic example of an exec understanding on a high level that they have fit and finish issues with parts, and pulling a completely inane statement out of his ass to make it sound like he has any real understanding or power whatsoever to address the issue.
It’s Musk, so everyone immediately knows he’s full of shit. But it’s a good reminder to not entirely trust CEOs when they make statements related to specific technical details because the fact of the matter is they are not engineers and for large companies they are nowhere near close enough to the design and manufacturing process to be able to make statements like this that are actually informed. It’s just PR bullshit.
The cybertronk looks highly regarded when put together correctly. Imagine if it has the panel gaps of other cars TSLA makes.
My tinfoil hat theory on why Elon is acting all right wing all of the sudden is to get those idiots to buy electric bare metal Pontiac Aztecs with “unbreakable” windows instead of F-150’s
100% everyone is making fun of teslas already, so imagine how the people feel who pre-ordered some garbage years ago. Now with their "leaked" email they can tell people how their future car will have toleraces that are on an qtomic level. These are also the prople who believed that teslas can fly in 3 years. Which was in 2016 i believe
I had exactly the same theory for 2. He seems to genuinely want to save humanity (reusable rockets, electric vehicles etc) and so converting right wingers to electric would fit the goal
This is what I was alluding to, however people seem to have jumped on the “oh he is an Elon fan, quick, tell him he is an idiot!” Rather than accepting nuance
“Had” is past tense. “Theory” is “a supposition or system of ideas indended to explain something”. I didn’t say that I thought that was the most likely theory. I thought lemmy was supposed to be able to hold a nuanced conversation?
Electric vehicles aren’t meant to save humanity. They are meant to save the car. If we removed all gas vehicles off the road right that wouldn’t even stop 30 percent of emissions. The only way to save humanity at this point is to stop capitalism. As long as we continue to expect the market to find a solution to a problem that has no profit motivator we will never save humanity. Elon included.
Ahem, if we removed all gas vehicles from the road right now, including farm vehicles, humanity would starve to death within a few months. Some subsistence farmers in developing countries that don’t need fertilizer would survive.
But it would definitely be the end of industrial society.
Emissions from transportation are a large proportion of global greenhouse gas emissions, so it absolutely does make sense to decarbonize them. This isn’t really debatable. It’s been part of the ICC strategy and negotiations for decades now.
My tinfoil hat theory on why Elon is acting all right wing all of the sudden is to get those idiots to buy electric bare metal Pontiac Aztecs with “unbreakable” windows instead of F-150’s
can he recoup $44 billion tho…? it’s a bold move.meme
wouldn’t it be nice to have some kind of logical explanation for his demented thrashings?
I don’t think he actually cares about the money he blew on Twitter. Money is a construct and that is even more true for rich people. If he cared about the money, he wouldn’t have tossed Twitter down the shitter.
I think he cares more about the impression he is making, whether it be good or bad. People are talking about Elon and that’s all that matters.
While I don’t know the cost to develop the cyber truck assuming it was 0 dollars to make the cost of the Twitter deal from cyber truck alone, it would take 88 thousand of them at elon getting 100% of the money from the sales. ( how he expects to sell an electric truck for 50k is beyond me)
My theory is he’s a wealthy dude, so he’s going to have right wing tendencies since the right wing benefits wealthy dudes.
Also, one of his kids came out as trans, he went nuts, blamed social media for making his kid a “degenerate”. Then bought twitter to destroy it out of revenge.
He’s kinda like a James Bond villain, but so much dumber.
Indeed, that’s about 10 to 100 times more accuracy than other automakers. Those tolerances just aren’t necessary so no supplier is going to have the tools or infrastructure in place to make parts to such a high degree. Body shop alone sees fluctuations in millimeters because industrial robots can’t do any better than half millimeter accuracy, if they’re brand new.
If you can even get something like +/-3 or 4 mm with say a cpk of 1,33 you are doing pretty well for a whole body.
It’s probably a pr stunt. If this is real then they are doomed because they have not yet understood that you need to compensate tolerances and design a robust assembly that can handle this. If you are trying to get crazy high part precision you have not understood how big scale manufacturing works. This is why the Japanese are often so highly regarded in this and might be the true art of car (or large scale) engineering.
To build it with that accuracy would be physically impossible. Guess he forgot about thermal expansion and contraction. Guess he forgot about the weather…
Nah, not impossible people build stellarator type Fusion reactors with large freeform metal parts in that tolerance region that are exposed to liquid helium.
Does not change the fact that all materials expand when temperature rises and contract when temperature cools. Plus different materials have different temperature expansion coefficients.
I mean, it says cybertruck parts, not the whole thing including assembly. Certainly possible for some manufacturing processes under given conditions to produce parts with ±0.005 tolerances like laser cutting or precision CNC machining of small dimensions. But it’s obviously completely unrealistic given that most parts for a car will be of large-ish dimensions and stamped, injection molded, cast, forged, extruded… none of which lends itself to IT grades better than 10, far away from talking about microns.
A rumor I’ve heard somewhere online is that people are noticing the body panels wobbling, or ‘breathing’ in and out in the wind. Not sure how true that is, I can’t find a video showing this happening, but it does make sense. Even the most subtle flexing of a shiny flat surface becomes way more obvious and sticks out like a sore thumb.
Musk is a scammer who has almost no practical understanding of engineering.
He (and unfortunately many after him) forgot about thermal expansion and contraction as well with his dumbass Hyperloop idea. Have a hermetically sealed metal tube with a vacuum run exposed for 200km and let’s just ignore thermal expansion. One station would have to move left and right for several meters throughout the day, every day for that, the 200km pipe somehow would need to be able to move about… His “designs” and “ideas” are engineering nightmares
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