New Discord TOS binds you to forced arbitration - Opt-Out Now

cross-posted from: lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/17618684

Forced arbitration means any legal disputes you may have with Discord must be resolved through a single third party mediator, who 99% of the time is chosen by, and will rule in favor of, the corporation/Discord. This effectively removes all your legal rights as a consumer, because arbitration decisions are legally binding and non-appealable.

The new ToS goes into effect April 15th, 2024.

YOU CAN OPT OUT OF ARBITRATION. You must email arbitration-opt-out@discord.com BEFORE MAY 15TH (30 days after ToS effective date) with your username stating that you wish to opt out of the arbitration clause. Once May 15th passes you are bound to arbitration with Discord forever.

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/b7e93aed-909e-43ad-b77f-d6ca4fa0e47a.png

Opt-out before it’s too late.

moonleay,

When I opt out, do they delete or lock my account?

empireOfLove2,
@empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

No, not according to the current wording of the ToS. It only removes you from the arbitration requirement, but still retains all other sections of the ToS and allows you to keep your account.

If they do choose to terminate you, it will make for a very interesting PR news cycle for them.

NikkiDimes,

Sounds like good motivation for me to check out Matrix if they do.

Predator,
@Predator@feddit.uk avatar

Is this opt-out applicable to EU/UK users?

empireOfLove2,
@empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

No. United States citizens only. Because we don’t have a functioning legal system here.

Ignacio,
Ignacio avatar

It would be wise to put in the post title whether a piece of news applies worldwide or US-wide, because some of us aren't good guessers.

0x0,

US doesn’t know Rest-of-the-World exists.

Ignacio,
Ignacio avatar

lemmywithout.us then, I guess.

lvxferre,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

I am not a lawyer, but:

Given the recent trend of corporations trying to force you to give up your legal rights, I strongly advise everyone here to check their local laws and see if this sort of forced arbitration is even legal where they live.

Just for the sake of example I’ll translate an excerpt of the local (Brazilian) Customers’ Defence Code, from 1990:

Section II. On abusive clauses.

Article 51. Contractual clauses referring to the supply of goods and services are void of full right (i.e. non-enforceable), when: […]

subsection VII - they determine the compulsory usage of arbitration.

I bet that most people around the world have similar laws protecting them. Use them or you’ll lose them.

BigMikeInAustin,

This is commentary about the state of rights in the US:

What’s it like to live in a free world where people aren’t the property of companies?

empireOfLove2,
@empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

This is true. Generally speaking, arbitration isn’t enforced (or enforceable at all) outside of the U.S. Discord knows this and explicitly states that the arbitration agreement will only apply if you are a US Resident; and any other conflicts will be subject to federal and California law. That said, they should still try to opt out if they can, if only to send a message.

lvxferre,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

That said, they should still try to opt out if they can, if only to send a message.

Yup - full agree. And I think that they should be nagging their lawmakers to actually defend their interests, instead of bowing to corporations in servitude.

(Note that my earlier comment was mostly a public service announcement, not disagreeing with you. Your point in the OP is sane and I agree with it.)

CosmicCleric, (edited )
@CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

And I think that they should be https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative to actually defend their interests, instead of bowing to corporations in servitude.

(Above highlighted link is for US citizens.)

Edit: Just contacted my representative, and let them know my feelings about this issue.

millie,

This seems like an unreasonable provision that wouldn't hold up in court. Companies put all kinds of unenforceable shit in their contracts.

empireOfLove2,
@empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

It’s perfectly enforceable in the US. Almost every corporation uses arbitration now, because handpicked arbitrators rule in favor of the corporations 99% of the time. All completely outside of the public legal system, all completely secret, all completely legal and allowed.

Ragdoll_X,
@Ragdoll_X@lemmy.world avatar

Freest* country on earth baby!

https://media1.tenor.com/m/InrbppWYBB0AAAAC/america-hurricane.gif

  • Free to fuck the working class, that is.
griD,

“They thought they were free”…

catloaf,

Is there any case law of people fighting them and a court determining their enforceability?

TootSweet,

Sounds like something John Oliver ought to cover.

(And, yeah, I know he’s mentioned it in episodes dedicated to other things, but an episode specifically about forced arbitration would be cool.)

BlackPenguins,

Something from Legal Eagle would be nice too.

TootSweet,

Gotta be honest about my experience with Legal Eagle. One of the first videos I ever saw of his contained an error. (Sonny Bono had nothing to do with the Copyright Act of 1976. Bono wasn’t in congress until 1995. Legal Eagle is confusing the Copyright Act of 1976 with the “Sonny Bono” Copyright Term Extension Act which was passed in 1998.)

And maybe it’s just serendipitous that one of the first videos of his that I watched contained an error that I was able to identify immediately. And maybe the vast majority of his videos aren’t riddled with errors. But I’m no expert on law and he’s supposed to be an expert on law, and given that one of the first few facts I even heard him speak was one I could immediately identify as incorrect, it made me concerned.

Like if I had no expertise in Chemistry beyond my high-school class 20 years ago and was able to correct someone on YouTube who claims to hold a Ph.D. in Chemistry and claims to have worked as a chemical engineer at Dow Chemical for the last 20 years that “no, actually oxygen isn’t a noble gas. Maybe you’re thinking of neon? It’s just two to the right on the periodic table from oxygen.”

millie,

Citation?

chiliedogg,

It’s also possible to use it against them though. The twist on arbitration is that the company has to pay for the arbiter win or lose. If a bunch of people opt to use it for a relatively minor issue, it’s more expensive for them than a regular lawsuit even if they do win.

Even for individual stuff, it can be nice. I had a car dealership try to fuck me over. I looked into the arbitration clause, found the arbiters they used, and found out it was going to cost the dealership $4,000 to go to the arbiter over a $1,500 dispute. If I won, I’d get my repair and they’d lose $4,000. If I lost, I wouldn’t get my repair, and they’d lose $4,000.

When I explained that they did the repair for free.

sugar_in_your_tea,

Looks like I have a new favorite pastime.

Peffse,

You will be happy to know that modern EULAs now have provisions against mass arbitration and bind you to a “class action” style arbitration.

I honestly don’t understand how any of this is legal considering they can’t prove you agreed to anything at all. I know my family members have agreed to junk while visiting my house and I don’t know what account and where.

chiliedogg,

I don’t expect that to stand up to a court challenge. Arbitration allows extra-judicial resolution of individual or class agreements (though most arbitration clauses actually prohibit class-action arbitration). But mandatory class arbitration would make it effectively impossible to seek individual damages of any kind, and there’s no way that’s legal.

You can lose your individual right to sue by not opting out of class membership when a class-action settlement or ruling is reached, yes. But that’s not the same as automatically being assigned to a class before a suit can occur.

Peffse,

Check out section 1K of Roku’s agreement

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