“What would the reaction be?” It would be different. It would be far more negative. Do you know why it would be more negative? Because women in tech do not hold power in tech. They do not hold power in the world. A misogynistic name for that category of people would be punching down.
By contrast, “techbro” is acceptable because we know who’s in power right now, and it’s punching up.
As one insider told me (who is not me): ‘imagine an equally sexist name was given to, say, female pundits and journalists’ … what would the reaction be?’
With the amount of misandry omnipresent in mainstream media. I'm starting to question which way is up and which is down.
Techbro was originally used to describe the type of men who made it difficult for women in tech, then somewhere along the line the general public realized the same dudes were also making it difficult for lots if people in lots of places.
If tech folks never actually acted like frat bros, the bro appellation never would have happened. I’ve worked in offices with Kegs cor crissakes.
By the beer standard the most tech-bro-y place I’ve worked was Swiss Bank Corp / O’Connor in Chicago, a software focused trading shop. In 1994. NeXT machines and Symbolics LISP machines on the private trading floor kind of place, with refrigerators kept stocked with free sodas and beer. Beer was for after 5, except on St Patrick’s day, when coolers of beer came out at about noon. Also, Nerf guns on the trading floor.
And yet, at least for the people I know best from there, they didn’t turn out to be tech bros. Perhaps there’s a generational aspect.
these people are obsessed with their 80s teenager level understanding of nerds vs popular kids. paul graham wrote an essay in his late 30s or something about how the only reason he wasn’t popular in high school was that he was too busy being smart.
To be fair you need a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty a Twitter thread
In all seriousness there’s a difference between being a nerd, being smart, and having a high IQ, and the interchanging of these terms can mislead people. The same thing is happening with the term “Techbro” elsewhere in this thread.
When did lemmy get so mean? I didn’t miss the point. I get that the joke is nft bros don’t understand that people hate them because they’re sexist scam artists, not because they claim to be nerds. Are we limited to only responding directly to the main point of a post? That’s a little limiting to the variety of discussions we could be having, don’t you think?
Since people don’t seem to have gotten my point: I’m not defending techbros. I’m saying that it’s strange to make the title about IQ when they aren’t pretending to have a high IQ, they’re pretending to be nerds. Those are different things.
This thread is using “techbro” to refer to workers way too much, there’s an upvoted post on here about how to take away the average working class tech worker’s job. You guys really think OpenAI is going to outsource to the gig economy? Uber for tech is only going to punish the least well paid devs, the generic webdevs just making websites for a small business. OpenAI isn’t going to let randos fuck around in their codebase.
A lot of software devs and tech workers are marginalised, neurodivergent or otherwise socially disadvantaged. Too many people in this thread are completely ignoring any kind of intersectionality just because they’re men.
Elon Musk isn’t a tech worker, he’s a tech CEO. Sam Altman isn’t a tech work, he’s a tech CEO. Sundar Pichai, Susan Wojcicki, Jen-Hsun Huang. All CEOs not tech workers.
The real “techbros” are all business people in an actual position of power, not the introverted QA tester just trying to get through the day. It’s disheartening to see so much class division, when your local tech worker is more likely to be an ally than a “techbro”.
Think you slightly misinterpreted the tone here and missed that people are mostly agreeing with you re what the term tech bros means. (A tech bro can still be a worker of course, workers can also be bad people. Anyway there are various different groups all sides muddle together (see how the OP tweet muddles ‘people who rule tech’ with nerds with tech bros with tech workers and finance people etc.
And you are imho doing the same here, with the ‘real techbros are’ part, as that is imho the ‘the nerds who have taken over the world’ part. While in this thread the tendency is to use techbro as a term for toxic masculine man who works for a tech company/related company who makes the environment harder for minorities/women/ND people. That most of people in tech are democrats (which is quite useless as an indicator as our local sneerclub posting shows (see how many people defended SSC Scott by calling him a democrat), both parties in the USA allow for a lot of rightwingers and shitty people) is not that relevant. Anyway, if the old reddit sneerclub regulars who now also post in techtakes are any indication this place is a little bit further left than you thought.
Which isn’t to say I disagree with the idea of your post that we should be careful not to shoot too broadly, but I don’t think that is really happening here, a post basically agreeing with you is at almost 60 upvotes right now (which for techtakes is quite a high amount). So yeah I think your heart is in the right place but you have seemed to have misread the tone of this place a bit.
I might have made the same mistake as the guy you're replying to, but fortunately for me, several years ago someone gave me a very similar explanation for a very similar situation.
I'm not sure I remember the details. But basically it was this word used to describe criminal murderous anti-intellectual misogynists. I mean these were REALLY bad people. But it was specific to a certain type of community.
A few in that community agreed with the use of that word in this way but not many. Most would complain that it seemed to paint everyone in the community with the same brush or "color" so to speak.
But the guy I spoke to reassured me that they just didn't understand the history of the word and that many of them are only complaining because they just want to keep doing the criminal murderous anti-intellectual misogynist thing.
What was the word again? Oh yeah, it was N****r
Strangely it didn't catch on fortunately many other words have caught on like:
incel, modern women, manosphere, manspreading, manterrupting, mansplaining, toxic masculinity, tech bro (that's a new one for me).
And probably many more.
I spend most of my time on left leaning spaces so I don't know many of the new words to refer to "bad women".
I guess this mean left leaning people just don't want to help women address the bad behaviors within women's communities.
Because people who use these kinds of words are only trying to make the world a better place by trying to better understand the ways different behaviors cause harm to society and this never EVER has anything to do with painting a whole group of people with the large brush of bigotry.
/s obviously this is sarcasm
My point is, tech bro is at least a little misandrist. And it's only the latest in a long list of misandrist terminology promoted by the left.
And then leftists are shocked that young men are flocking to the right...
there’s an upvoted post on here about how to take away the average working class tech worker’s job
Are you talking about mine? The point of the post was that techbros and tech industry workers are not the same thing, and that actually the tech workers whose valor those CEOs are stealing are vulnerable to the same tactics techbro startups have used to fuck over workers in other sectors.
A lot of software devs and tech workers are marginalised, neurodivergent or otherwise socially disadvantaged. Too many people in this thread are completely ignoring any kind of intersectionality just because they’re men.
A lot of people in every industry are marginalized, neurodivergent or otherwise socially disadvantaged.
I am a queer, neurodivergent, left wing tech worker myself. Most of the regulars here are probably at least two or three of those things as well. I know lots of tech workers who are in no way techbros, but I’ve also met some of the least class conscious, most obliviously racist and misogynist opportunist motherfuckers who would lick the boots of every billionaire on earth for a chance to join their ranks. This is about the latter.
Fair enough, as I’ve said elsewhere, I’ve been given a lot to think about and apologise for being so combative. I’m just a bit confused and need to re-evaluate
The real “techbros” are all business people in an actual position of power, not the introverted QA tester just trying to get through the day.
If the QA tester goes home and checks his Raspberry Pi dogecoin mining rig, and is saving up for a Cybertruck, he’s probably a tech bro, if only a larval one.
that’s great and not in any way what this is about, not to mention that you’re the one identifying the people you speak of with the horrible techbros in the OP. but thanks for your driveby
Anyway if any of you actually do hate techbros for being nerds and wanna give a fuck you to computer geeks in general and tech enterpreneurs in particular, I have an evil plan for you.
Found the Uber for software development. Create an app to connect customers with freelance developers (particularly in lower income countries) and crucially, make sure the developers are responsible for their own infrastructure. Have the devs shoulder the ever-growing burden of cloud bills and server maintenance, minimize your own role except as a middleman and encourage a race to the bottom between the people doing the actual work. Use your VC money on lawyers, manipulative user interface development, marketing and sabotaging your competition.
Congratulations, you will have accelerated the inevitable devaluation of the computer programming profession and stripped it of its perceived prestige. You will have fucked over the majority of software developers and IT operations people. You might even break the pretension that finance bros owe their wealth to their skill with computing technology. You will hoist some “disruptors” by their own petard, hit a bunch of people for collateral damage and probably make a lot of money for bigger fish capitalists.
Do not actually do this, or I hope one day you will be treated like the pestilent leech you are. Consider becoming a communist instead.
No, that is not what I meant. Not all software devs are techbros at all. Techbros are people characterized by their romanticization of computing history viewed through a corporatist lens; an obsession with IT and Fintech megacorps and trend-du-jour bandwagons like blockchains or AI; a façade of laid back trendiness; business ideas based on rent-seeking and value extraction; or attempts to minimize, excuse and deny the deep-seated misogyny and racism within startup and tech corporate culture.
What I’m saying is that there is a certain prestige (albeit a steadily diminishing one) associated with the technical professions, paricularly software development, and the venture capital types are taking advantage of that fact by acting as if their wealth is built on their technical talents (e.g. Paul Graham appointing himself and his news site as champions of hacker culture or Elon Musk attempting his out-of-touch idea of code review).
The idea was that if you hated both techbros and actual computer nerds, you could help ruin that prestige by taking a page from the VCs themselves (Airbnb in particular being an Y Combinator startup). Make everyone an “independent contractor”, shift the ever-accumulating capital expenditure on them, make the crabs drag each other back into the bucket and position yourself as the purely extractive middle man. See how the techbros like it when you do it to their little sacred cow industry.
And as @froztbyte points out, some of this has already happened. I’m just trying to imagine the cognitive dissonance of pretending you’re a genius programmer while also believing (even celebrating) that LLMs will replace software developers.
Upwork (previously e-Lance) has a massive systemic lowest-bid-wins downpressure dynamic already, favouring labour from extremely low-cost markets and rushthrough result output. It is occasionally possible to find a good/decent bit of work on there, but largely I t’s a shitshow across multiple dimensions. (There’s more I could say here but it probably deserves its own post somewhere)
And then there’s fucking Turing, a newer entrant to the market labour arbitrage space (because, really, that’s what these are). Turing is a Startup. They explicitly search out developers from developing/third-world nations, mail them (e.g. I got on mail they could only have gotten from scraped commits), and then pitch them on a number that is “better than what they may get locally” but still far below whatever it is that Turing itself bills to end customer. And they called it fucking Turing.
Yes, I know gig economy for programmers already exists, but to really make it the UberBnB for Upwork, the idea is to push the CAPEX to the workers themselves.
Uber became the world’s biggest taxi company while owning no cars. Airbnb became the world’s biggest hotel chain while owning no hotels. Imagine being the world’s biggest cloud while owning no servers.
ah right, soz, I meant to address that too but was typing from phone and fucked that bit up
more than a few of the projects/things on these sites tend to be in a shape of “programmer provides all facilities”, be it dev tooling or “before launch” site hosting etc. but in favour of your point, it’s still definitely incidental instead of structural/built into the system foundations
might not swing that way either, because it places a lot of leverage on the dev’s side (and in an exploitative economy, the money doesn’t like going for that)
You think I hate nerds? Ha ha, fuck you. If I did hate nerds, I could never do the kind of damage to the reputation of the geek subculture that Paul Graham and his like-minded cohorts have.
Come on out and nerd fight me, posers. I will outnerd you. I will eat you for breakfast. You ain’t got shit on me. Give me six lines written by the hand of the most pedantic bluecheck and I will pedantically point out seven fallacies in them, write a filk song about it and arrange it to chiptune.
Yet somehow people don’t seem to hate me for being a nerd. I think I’m fairly popular and most people react to my nerdy interests positively, or at worst indifferently. If it sounds like I’m bragging, I’m not saying I’m some super cool gigachad, but that anyone is compared to these losers.
People don’t hate techbros for being nerds, or men for that matter. If I (a nerdy man) am the one who supposedly hates nerds and men, why are you the one implying that the faults I criticise techbros for are innate to nerds and men?
Oh well, we all know the real reason techbros hate leftists is that we make so much better art, have better sex, do better science and are oh so resentably attractive.
If I hated nerds I certainly wouldn’t have Star Trek themed filk music stuck in my head. What I hate is a variety of things including the casual misogyny among nerds of a certain generation (cough gygax) and the way in which tech CEOs and adherents attempt to regild our society.
And yeah, exactly, if you can interact with others as a nerd nobody hates you these days. Nerdy shit is just culture now
The term techbro specifically refers to someone with a business/finance background who acts like they have tech knowledge without actually having any tech knowledge.
‘nerds taking over the world’ no it was finance with techbros taking over the world. If nerds had taken over there would be a lot more open source and we wouldn’t all be familiar with the word ‘enshitiffication’.
One of the most famous techbros wants people to print out code and has trouble running a python script.
E: that these fucks can play with their venture capital shit while Real Tech Nerds(tm, do not steal!) like Foone have to ask for donations is pretty terrible. (Foone is a fun account to follow if you like somebody who takes old hardware and stuff apart in fun ways).
E: related skeet “1980s techies: Imagine a World Wide Web where all human knowledge can be shared and accessed by everyone. 2020s techbros: We will steal every word you’ve ever shared, every artwork you’ve ever displayed, lock them away in datasets without your permission, then sell them all back to you, but shite.”
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