Can we please all just admit that he’s guilty of treason and charge him accordingly at this point? Between undermining the entire political system with his bullshit insurrection as AND keeping hold of documents that our enemies would pay to see, I’m not sure anyone could make a solid argument that he’s what we’re looking for in a citizen.
We can’t… Charge for crimes that have been committed and televised with millions of witnesses? Isn’t that almost entirely the point of the justice system?
You’re absolutely right. It’s crazy. But I believe for treason and sedition you have to prove intent. That’s a bit harder. As much as we want to have the hard and fast trial, it has to be done more carefully to make sure it’ll stick.
No because treason is specifically defined within the US Constitution and he has not met those parameters. However, sedition is absolutely on the table.
Saw this Legal Eagle video earlier today and yeeesh, how stupid can one group of people be. They asked a guy to delete the security videos who then of course immediately ratted them out because even among Trump’s staff there’s people there with a minimum moral compass.
You don't even need a moral compass for that. Just a healthy amount of fear of the law. Trump likes to act like a mobster, but he's not whacking anybody.
This is why Trumpies (and other fascists) dislike “the deep state”, by the way.
“The deep state” (in modern US usage) is anyone whose career in public service is not tied to a specific administration: professional bureaucrats, military officers, FBI agents, postal workers, etc.; in any city there will be similar officials, from the fire chief to the public librarians.
The opposite of “the deep state” is “the patronage system” — where you get a government job only by supporting the winning candidate.
When your town elects a new mayor, all the building inspectors and police officers and firefighters don’t have to stop their work and wait to find out whether the new mayor cares about smoke detectors and muggings. That’s because they’re part of “the deep state”, the part that doesn’t respond to shallow political changes.
But that means that people in “the deep state” are immune to certain sorts of short-term manipulation. The local town postmaster is a federal employee who expects to be in office long after the current president is gone. Today’s army lieutenant might one day be a general — but only by outlasting a few presidents.
Trumpies and other fascists dislike “the deep state” because its members expect to have loyalties to the state long after the current administration; and thus, they cannot devote themselves wholly to any current Führer.
The fact that Trump doesn’t even want to commit to pardoning the people who tried to overthrow the government for him should get them to make a brief pause and think things over.
If they plan this correctly he’ll have at least one conviction on the books when the election takes place next November, making him ineligible for election and keeping him off the ballot. He’ll appeal of course, but by then it’ll be his problem and not ours.
What’s truly inconceivable here is that we cannot dismiss the prospect of him pardoning himself because the SCOTUS is laughably partisan as well. Even Nixon didn’t enjoy the benefit of unprincipled staff and jurists like this garbage fire has. The GOP is a true cesspool of partisan hacks. It’s stunning to see how utterly unpatriotic they openly are, whilst wrapping themselves in a flag whose ideals they disdain (and simultaneously flying flags of vanquished foes).
It’s a cult. Literally a cult faithful to a cheap con man.
It means that he has been formally accused of these crimes and there will be trials in court to determine his guilt. There has to be sufficient evidence of a crime before they (a group of people called a grand jury) will allow a case to move to trial. This limits the government from making false charges and tying people up in court on bogus charges.
An indictment means that they find that the Department of Justice (DoJ) do have sufficient evidence for a trial. It is not a determination of guilt per se, but a determination that there is sufficient evidence that a trial (or trials) must be set to determine whether he is guilty.
Furthermore, it’s my understanding that the DoJ will not indict someone unless they are absolutely sure they have an ironclad case against them that will result in the person being found guilty.
There are a bunch of charges against him, many (all?) of which are felonies. Which means he could go to prison for who knows how long. Possibly the rest of his life. The penalties are determined separately after someone is found guilty. Though, of course, there are guidelines on what the penalties should be (i.e. how long they spend in prison for each crime, restitution they may have to pay, etc.).
TL;DR It means that Trump has been formally accused of these crimes, there is sufficient evidence for them to take him to trial, and if he is found guilty he will probably go to prison, maybe for a long time.
it says more on our justice system and how we respect it
after the war on drugs was used to arrest poor people for petty shit the rich got away with and now the war on terrorism being used to steal information and manipulate people, we have no faith in our justice system. it doesn’t matter he has these felonies because the law is unjust and corrupt anyway
I think it says a lot about how the right has demonized all opposition. When you have a highly impressionable voter base that is trained to think of themselves as evil immoral baby eating demons for agreeing with the left this is what you get. This is actual and real mass brainwashing. It is also why you see every possible invective hurled at opposition from fascist all the way to Marxist and everything in between.
However… if he gets any prison time, you DM me and I’ll Venmo you $200, which I request you spend on a nice drink, and we will toast in honor of my being wrong. I’m seriously good for it.
I’m too jaded at this point. I’ve come to accept the orange man will never actually be punished.
Once elected President again, couldn’t he just pardon himself of all federal crimes and not visit any of those states where he’s convicted? They probably won’t extradite the President.
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