Murais,
@Murais@lemmy.one avatar

It also “arbitrarily” has its own currency, government, military, flag, infrastructure, foreign policy, trade deals, etc.

And anybody who knows the history of Taiwan and doesn’t perceive it to be an independent nation is willfully ignorant.

Blursty,
@Blursty@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Independent state, not nation.

HellAwaits,

Elmo Musk is a piece of shit

Madison_rogue,
Madison_rogue avatar

"Slams" equates to low effort shitposting, even by the likes of NBC. As a business bootlicker CNBC is no stranger to clickbait...

Alternatives to the word "Slam(s)" include: animadversion, aspersion, jab, obloquy, potshot, slap, slur, stricture, and swipe

Seems character count is apparently expensive even in bit format as a digital character.

Madison_rogue,
Madison_rogue avatar

@stopthatgirl7, I appreciate the downvote, however I'd like to add that this contributes to the conversation and the trend of using the word "slam" in every article that poses a reactionary comment by someone, or an entity against something another someone or entity officially says.

It's apparent that it's low effort in the attempt to generate clicks. Quite frankly, I agree with Taiwan's comments against Elon "I open my mouth garbage spews forth" Musk. I just don't agree with the headline.

stopthatgirl7,
stopthatgirl7 avatar

Dude, look at the comments already talking about slam in headlines instead of rehashing it.

MNByChoice,

integral part of China.

How integral can Taiwan be to China if Taiwan has not been functioning as a part of China for a fucking long time?

Not very integral at all.

SkaveRat,

downvoting soley because of using “slam” in the headline. That shit needs to stop

RogueBanana,

If ur using a client on mobile it will most likely have word blacklist options

Blake,

Words like “slam” drive engagement. Journalists have to pay their bills, and journalistic institutions can only really get money from advertisement or from wealthy patrons who bankroll them as a way of spreading their ideology. For both, engagement and clicks are absolutely vital - advertisers need traffic so people see and click their adverts, ideologues need traffic so people see and internalise their ideology.

If you don’t like clickbait headlines, get involved with anti-capitalist direct action!

can,

“slam” actually became common in headlines as it’s only 4 characters.

can,

It’s a holdover from when physical headline space was still limited. There’s a whole chart showing the headline words and more natural equivalents.

stopthatgirl7,
stopthatgirl7 avatar

Guess what, I can’t do anything about that. That’s literally the article’s headline. Feel free to go to the article itself and comment against “slams” there, where it might actually do something.

SkaveRat,

oh, I believe you. not intended to be directed at you specifically.

Not using news sites that use these headlines might be an alternative

stopthatgirl7,
stopthatgirl7 avatar

This was the only site that specifically mentioned the “Not for sale” part in the headline. And NBC is a pretty big news source, so I’m not going to ignore it just because some folks get a bug up their butts over an overused word.

And I’ve had people yell at me on here for using “clickbait” headlines and tell me to change the headlines to be less “clickbaity” when they didn’t even read the article in the first place and changing titles to not match the headline is against a lot of news comm/magazine rules.

Blake,

You’re 100% right for not changing the headlines. Thanks for sharing the article.

SkaveRat,

again, nothing against you posting it. And the fact that it’s a big site doesn’t matter one bit. It’s still a shit headline

FatTony,
@FatTony@lemmy.world avatar

Talk about Double Speak

jmcs,

Besides, insofar the comparison with Hawaii is accurate, it would be an argument for the independence of Hawaii not against the independence of Taiwan.

Varyk,

Even though the dumb dumb wasn’t saying this, you’re right about the parallel argument for the independence of Hawaii, since the US invaded Hawaii and forced the last Queen to formally recognize a usurping American provisional government under duress.

The last recognized Queen of Hawaii wrote this even soldiers invaded her palace:

"Now, to avoid any collision of armed forces and perhaps the loss of life, I do, under this protest, and impelled by said force, yield my authority until such time as the Government of the United States shall, upon the facts being presented to it, undo the action of its representatives and reinstate me in the authority which I claim as the constitutional sovereign of the Hawaiian Islands.”

So she signed over the temporary authority but not sovereignty of the islands, and this was not resolved until Hawaii “officially became”@ the 50th state, despite the Kingdom of Hawaii never abdicating its sovereignty and only recognizing a provisional us gov. under violent threat.

Giant country stealing an independent island nation by force, pretty solid parallel there.

This is just an interesting history share, btw, and in no way in support of elon, who clearly has no idea what he’s talking about.

bdonvr,

The Hawaii comparison make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Blursty,
@Blursty@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Hawaii is a US settler colony however, Taiwan regards itself as part of China.

SeaJ,

Most people in Taiwan do not consider them to be part of China. Taiwan was also a settler colony, BTW. The indigenous people were there for thousands of years before the Han Chinese settlers showed up in the 1700s.

Blursty,
@Blursty@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Most people in Taiwan do not consider them to be part of China.

Nonsense. Who told you that?

SeaJ,

The Taiwanese people:

apnews.com/…/taiwan-china-mao-zedong-internationa…

Where’s your info coming from?

Blursty,
@Blursty@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Most Taiwanese have an unfavorable view of China and a favorable view of the U.S.

Poor bastards. Thanks.

SeaJ,

One is providing defensive weapons against the other that wants to snuff out the views of the majority on the island. There should be nothing surprising about that.

The majority of the people in Taiwan do not consider themselves to be part of the PRC and the indigenous Taiwanese certainly do not.

Have whatever qualms you want about the US but it is pretty clear that China is not wanted in Taiwan.

Blursty,
@Blursty@lemmygrad.ml avatar

You honestly think the USA gives the slightest shit about Asians on the other side of the planet? You probably think they care about who governs a sliver of land in the most corrupt shithole in the modern world in Europe too.

The majority of the people in Taiwan do not consider themselves to be part of the PRC and the indigenous Taiwanese certainly do not.

And those indigenous Taiwanese? How do they feel about being Taiwanese?

The US is not wanted in Asia full stop.

SeaJ,

I and tons of others in the USgive a shit about people on the other side of the planet. Do you not?

Not sure what country you are talking about in your second part but your statement sounds a little racist.

The indigenous Taiwanese do not consider themselves to be part of China.

The majority of people in Taiwan do want US aid so I’m not sure where you are getting that the US is not wanted. China is not wanted in Taiwan certainly.

Blursty,
@Blursty@lemmygrad.ml avatar

You should give a shit about your fellow citizens first and start pretending to be a functioning country before having an opinion about what goes on in Asia. But that’s just your white man’s burden eh?

Not sure what country you are talking about in your second part but your statement sounds a little racist.

You’re not sure what I’m talking about because you’re an ignorant supremacist little prick who knows nothing about the world or your blood soaked failed state’s involvement in it.

Taiwan is historically part of China and the division was largely created by the US which offered military protection to the KMT, and this division was widened over time as the KMT’s White Terror and brainwashing people made people grow up hearing the PRC is backward and evil. Read a book and stop commenting on the internet about shit you haven’t a breeze about.

Astroturfed,

The divide definitely had nothing to do with the purging of all culture and history in favor of ditches filled with dead bodies. The great leap forward was so lit.

wrath-sedan,
wrath-sedan avatar

Thanks for mentioning it, I’d like to add that Taiwan is still a settler state. Taiwanese Indigenous people still live there, and have been waging their own battles for greater rights and sovereignty within Taiwan for centuries. Unfortunately, in all the Taiwan v. China noise their voices and concerns get drowned out.

Blake, (edited )

“Taiwan regards itself as part of China”

said Blursty.

“neither is it part of China”

said Taiwan’s Foreign Affairs Ministry

I think what you mean is that Taiwan considers itself to be an independent state, whereas the People’s Republic of China, on the mainland, considers themselves Taiwan to be a part of their territory.

Difficult issue to even discuss without taking sides, really!

Blursty,
@Blursty@lemmygrad.ml avatar

“neither is it part of China”

You misunderstood. He meant the PRC by “China” in that instance. The Taiwanese rulers consider themselves to be the rightful rulers of all of China.

Blake,

While that used to be the case, it is no longer true - Taiwan acknowledged the PRC as the legitimate authority over mainland China in 1991 and released their claims on the mainland.

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Give them a break, they’ve only had 30 years to learn that

wrath-sedan,
wrath-sedan avatar

Should note that the “Taiwan is the real China” brand of politics has basically died out in Taiwan. Yes they are technically “The Republic of China” but China has said that changing that is tantamount to declaring de jure independence which would trigger a war.

Taiwan (for the most part) just wants to be Taiwan.

(See also why the “West Taiwan” meme is frowned upon and completely misrepresents what most Taiwanese people want.)

Blake, (edited )

TIL, thanks, I have edited my comment accordingly. I have never liked the whole “west Taiwan” thing anyways - while I disagree with a lot of what the PRC does, I think unilaterally declaring that an entire nation should be governed by a different nation is shitty, imperialist behaviour. The only time I think it’s valid is for people expressing their wishes for their own homeland, and even then it can still be imperialist.

quicksand,

Historically (pre 1949) mainland China was their own homeland. The Republican government fled to Taiwan during the Chinese Civil War. But I guess the people of Taiwan have moved past laying claim to their homeland for various reasons.

wrath-sedan,
wrath-sedan avatar

There’s a lot of layers there, Han people have been settling in Taiwan since the 17th century and this originally Taiwanese-speaking group makes up about 70% of people in Taiwan. They don’t consider China their homeland anymore than Americans do the UK.

Han people who came with the fleeing KMT government are more directly tied to China, but even they have been largely Taiwan-ized politically since the democracy and identity movements of the 1980’s. Which is to say, very very few people in Taiwan see China as a homeland these days.

freagle,

The KMT conducted a 40-year fascist reign of terror where they wiped out most of the native Taiwanese and killed tens of thousands of Han who agreed that the KMT had lost and that integration needed to happen.

wrath-sedan,
wrath-sedan avatar

Yup, the White Terror. I didn’t disagree with that.

My point was that the KMT coming to Taiwan was a wave of migration of people who while very anti-PRC saw themselves as fundamentally Chinese and Mandarin-speaking as opposed to pre-1945 Han settlers who were Taiwanese-speaking and in many cases had been living in Taiwan for hundreds of years already.

Today, those distinctions have softened, and polling shows that even the people who are descended from that wave of KMT migration mostly see themselves as Taiwanese first and foremost.

freagle,

Of course they do, if they saw themselves as mainlanders they were murdered and chucked in mass graves. The entire society is shaped by the white terror

Aurenkin,

Please kindly fuck off Elon “if only everyone just gave in to fascists” Musk.

Blake,

For a “free speech absolutist”, Elon sure seems to be comfortable supporting dictatorships where free speech is suppressed.

In my experience, a lot of “free speech” adherents seem to mostly want to be able to use slurs and spread anti-semitism without consequences, but feel that it’s perfectly fine for the government to outlaw the open discussion of issues which affect 5-10% of the population.

Dubious_Fart,

Free speech for me, not for thee.

In other words, “I can say whatever I want, and you can’t oppress me by criticizing it!”

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