Taiwan never claimed independence and is a defacto state, NOT a dejure sovereign state, and over 170 countries recognise it as part of One China. There is only one China. Keep crying. Your pronouns do not give you immunity from being called out on bullshit.
Did you even think before writing that? What am I saying, of course you didn’t.
the ROC doesn’t consider th Taiwan to be an independent state
Because they lose any possible claim to their continuity as the rightful government of China by doing so. Also, the CCP would be quite pissy about that.
I think it’s quite fair to assume that when people use the term China in isolation, they are referring to the authoritarian dictatorship state controlled by the CCP, The Peoples Republic of China.
ROC a governmental body, still holds onto the idea that it is the sole rightful “owner” of all the territories of pre-1949 China. Good for them, a little far from reality but I can’t blame them for having dreams.
A significant portion of the people of Taiwan do not under any circumstances want to be part of anything under rule of the CCP, which in reality means that they do not want to be part of the Peoples Republic of China. The ROC, on the other hand, still wants to hold into the idea of their claim over the whole region, so it’s interests are in conflict with the people’s in that regard.
Thus! Taiwan is an independent state from the PRC because the chances of the PRC being governed by anyone but the CCP is slim to none.
I note you went straight to swearing at me, quoting my own “fuck right off” which was directed at a government and not any individual. I’m sure you understand why this doesn’t make me any more likely to support your stance, but do try to be kinder.
stopped reading here; what’s the point of having a more in depth discussion with someone who’s political analysis is on the level of Saturday morning cartoons. I reiterate that you should fuck off back to reddit, you’ll be happier there.
You may not realize this, but, for people who aren’t western anglos, casual orientalism and western chauvinism is just as disrespectful and unkind as ‘ad hominems’.
The “original China” of Chiang Kai Shek is a subservient lapdog to the imperial core. It is a nation born out of cowardice and corruption.
The PRC is the rightful government of China. Over 180 countries in the world recognize that fact. This isn’t some fight against “communism” but a righting of history.
No, it’s because they claim sovereignty over the whole of China + parts who already are independent from the People’s Republic of China. They are not independent, just the old regime in exile. To them Taiwan is just a province of China just as it is for the PRC
Interestingly China would also be quite upset if Taiwan stopped claiming sovereignty over the mainland. To them that would signal an end to the one China policy. So Taiwan maintaining its claim to the mainland is actually to keep China happy. I don’t think the Taiwan government is under any illusion that they will someday take over the mainland.
It sounds extremely convoluted that a government considering itself “rightful” (ROC/Taiwan) who fought and lost a war with revolutionaries (PRC/“China”) would continue the claim that led to a war to not piss off the revolutionaries?
Is this some homebrew theory or do you have a source?
Not some home brew theory. And it is very convoluted, but it’s bascially more “one China” policy word games.
The Taiwanese president unofficially stated in 1991 they do not claim mainland China, but this was never affirmed by courts and there’s no force of law behind it. They cannot officially do this currently without greatly antagonizing China. China’s view is that Taiwan limiting its borders to include only Taiwan and not all of China, would signal the end of the “one China” policy and be a precursor to Taiwanese independence. If Tawain were to declare different national borders that include only the island itself, then China would view it as a violation of their anti secession law passed in 2005, which threatens military force in retaliation. In China’s view, they are another government still within China and still in civil war, without the authority to re-define national borders.
Continuing to claim mainland China as part of the same country is continuing the current status quo, any deviations from that would be viewed as an attempted separation of “indivisable” China. So the claim to the mainland at this point in history is primarily to not antagonize China and continue the status quo situation.
Yes, but that stems more from the fact that the Republic of China (aka Taiwan) and the People’s Republic of China both lay claims to be the real China.
You can’t really declare independence from yourself.
Also the PRC would probably attack immediately if the ROC gave up their claim on being china.
Congressman Seth Moulton prposed to do this in May '23. Taiwan obviously wasn’t happy about that proposal.
Then there’s also a statement by former National Security Advisor Robert O’Brien from March '23 where he said that “I can’t imagine they’d be intact” after an invasion of China.
The 2nd one is a bit nebulous but doesn’t talk about reunification but about annexation.
So they are not independent then. not even their staunchest ally (USA) recognizes their Independence, so I don’t see where is the controversy with Irish PM’s statement.
Coward. So he only stands up against tyranny when it’s easy for them to do so for example for Palestine. But when their economy is on the line he sides with the tyrants. How much does Ireland even rely on China economically? Don’t they make most of their money from being a tax haven?
No. Even Taiwan doesn't claim to be an independent country.
The One China policy refers to a United States policy of strategic ambiguity regarding Taiwan. In a 1972 joint communiqué with the PRC, the United States "acknowledges that all Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China" and "does not challenge that position." It reaffirms the U.S. interest in a peaceful settlement of the Taiwan question. The United States has formal relations with the PRC, recognizes the PRC as the sole legal government of China, and simultaneously maintains its unofficial relations with Taiwan while taking no official position on Taiwanese sovereignty. The US “acknowledges” but does not “endorse” PRC's position over Taiwan, implying it neither supports nor rejects China's sovereignty over Taiwan, and has considered Taiwan's political status as “undetermined” ... Internationally, the United Nations and all countries that have diplomatic relations with the PRC handle relations with Taiwan according to their own respective "One China" policies.
TLDR: Ireland isn't saying Taiwan should come under Chinese communist rule. They're following the US lead, and saying that there is one China, but not discussing who should rule China (the CCP or the nationalists who were forced to flee to Taiwan).
This is a boiler plate nothingburger of a diplomatically worded statement that most countries in the world will trot out.
Err… the Philippines, the former US colony? Where currently new US military bases are being built? Which China has never ruled, attempted to rule, or said they want to rule?
You’re worried that China is going to claim the Philippines???
Were you hoping nobody would notice your bad faith rhetorical trick of trying to equivocate “China” with “the CCP” (by which I assume you meant the CPC)
They wouldn’t claim the Philippines without a war.
But the Chinese government is trying to claim territorial waters, and their aggression toward all their neighbors is exactly why the Philippines have decided to work with the US and open new bases.
They may not claim it, but they are definitely the aggressor in the territory, and most of their neighbors do not view the Chinese government as ‘the good guys’; that’s not to say they view the US as ‘the good guys’ either, simply as the one that isn’t actively aggressive and could assist in their defense.
Anyone with even a smidge of knowledge about the actual situation of the Taiwan issue.
Contrary to what’s usually depicted, neither Taiwan nor China consider Taiwan as an independent country. Taiwan, or more accurately the Republic of China (ROC), claims sovereignty over https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ROC_Administrative_and_Claims.svg.
Both the ROC and the People’s Republic of China (PRC) consider Taiwan to be a province of China, it just happens that the ROC only has control over Taiwan while the PRC has control over China
Britain is historically just England and Wales, though colloquially now used as a shorter way of saying “Great Britain”, which is England, Wales, and Scotland.
The British isles is England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland (and all the smaller islands like the Hebrides, Orkneys, etc)
When has Britain ever just meant England and Wales? Geographically the name for the island always included what is now Scotland. The first political entity to be called "the Kingdom of Great Britain" included Scotland. The Celtic Britons lived in what is now Scotland. The Picts were Brythonic too, but non-Pictish Britons lived as far north as the Forth-Clyde line.
Makes sense, as a geographical location I imagine it has had many names over history based on who controls the narrative. Can I ask what other names there are for the area that isn’t supportive of British colonialism?
Thank you, British and Irish Islands seems like it would be more easily understood by the general populous. When I hear South Eastern Icelandic Archipelago, I get a bit geographically turned around because I’m an idiot and I picture Iceland near Greenland which is near Canada, and I picture Ireland near England which is near France, so in my tiny brain Ireland and Iceland are a whole ocean apart (even though paleo-geographically, it’s the same soil)
I was more joking with that one to be fair but yeah just include Ireland in the terminology and you’re good. It is better than the implication that we are a part of Britain.
I’ve literally never heard that or read anything suggesting that. Britain/Britons has been used to describe the islands and peoples of the north Atlantic archipelago since ancient times with great Britain simply referring to the largest island (i.e. England+Scotland+Wales), as per wiki
Written record
The first known written use of the word was an ancient Greek transliteration of the original P-Celtic term. It is believed to have appeared within a periplus written in about 325 BC by the geographer and explorer Pytheas of Massalia, but no copies of this work survive. The earliest existing records of the word are quotations of the periplus by later authors, such as those within Diodorus of Sicily’s history (c. 60 BC to 30 BC), Strabo’s Geographica (c. 7 BC to AD 19) and Pliny’s Natural History (AD 77).[10] According to Strabo, Pytheas referred to Britain as Bretannikē, which is treated a feminine noun.[11][12][13][14] Although technically an adjective (the Britannic or British) it may have been a case of noun ellipsis, a common mechanism in ancient Greek. This term along with other relevant ones, subsequently appeared inter alia in the following works:
<span style="color:#323232;">Pliny referred to the main island as Britannia, with Britanniae describing the island group.[15][16]
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Catullus also used the plural Britanniae in his Carmina.[17][18]
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Avienius used insula Albionum in his Ora Maritima.[19]
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Orosius used the plural Britanniae to refer to the islands and Britanni to refer to the people thereof.[20]
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Diodorus referred to Great Britain as Prettanikē nēsos and its inhabitants as Prettanoi.[21][22]
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Ptolemy, in his Almagest, used Brettania and Brettanikai nēsoi to refer to the island group and the terms megale Brettania (Great Britain) and mikra Brettania (little Britain) for the islands of Great Britain and Ireland, respectively.[23] However, in his Geography, he referred to both Alwion (Great Britain) and Iwernia (Ireland) as a nēsos Bretanikē, or British island.[24]
</span>
Add comment