TheFonz, (edited )

Wow. What an exceptional piece of journalism from Alexandra Zoe and the People’s Dispatch! Not a single source: just an opinion piece. But thank you Alexandra for your unbiased insight. What an incredible claim that there might be corruption in Venezuelas electoral process! Clearly an indication of the American Colonial western imperialism expansionist policy. Did I get all the buzzwords right? This is what stands for journalism nowadays?

par for the course to be expected standard of news on “world news” @ lemmy.ml

GenEcon,

Everyone reading this piece full of buzzwords and without any source and thinking ‘yeah, this seems trustworthy’, is completly delusional.

anarchoilluminati,
@anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net avatar

Guaido’s term expired already?

Alsephina,

Electoralism and its consequences 😔

anarchoilluminati,
@anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net avatar

Common electoralism L.

Ram_The_Manparts,
@Ram_The_Manparts@hexbear.net avatar

He will always be the president of my heart.

Tylerdurdon,

Here we go again. Let’s tamper with other countries just enough to create instability, then scratch your heads a decade later when their population is escaping to your border. Rinse, repeat, Insanity.

GrymEdm,

The USA under Trump tried to depose the Venezuelan leader only 5 years ago or so. Speaking of Trump, a large portion of the USA is currently striving to elect someone who tried to overthrow democracy in their own nation. Electoral scrutiny is all well and good, but is the USA really the right arbitrator given their domestic election problems and history of interfering in Central/South America? What do Venezuelans think about US involvement?

jaybone,

Then Russia interferes with US election. It’s election interference all the way down.

Except it stops at countries like Russia where the complete election is fake.

OtakuAltair, (edited )
@OtakuAltair@lemmy.world avatar

Unlike our glorious US empire where the elections are definitely totally legit (don’t ask why Trump won despite getting less votes)

No liberal “democracies” are democratic in the first place on account of being capitalist dictatorships

Nudding,

Remember when gore won the election and then Bush became president? Or when Hilary got more votes and then trump became president?

mlg,
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

Biden successfully deposed of Pakistan’s elected leader lol.

TheFonz,

Source?

Alsephina,

Imran Khan was coup’d in 2022 for his independent foreign policies and replaced with a pro-US puppet (who sent weapons to Ukraine and bombed Iran), despite Imran being highly popular in Pakistan.

He won this year’s election from jail despite the whole election being completely filled with vote-rigging. It’s not quite clear where things are gonna go from here.

TheFonz, (edited )

I asked for a source or evidence. You provided a statement made by Imran Khan himself. A statement by a politician claiming that the US backed a coup in Pakistan is not evidence.

Edit: Why are people downvoting? Do you guys take politicians’ statements as fact now? What is your bar for evidence?

Nudding,

The downvotes are because of your petulant whining.

TheFonz,

Asking for evidence is “whining”. Gotcha.

Nudding,

No, no, the whining is the whining.

TheFonz,

We should not ask for evidence and accept any blog post as news. Our masters will be pleased. Anyone dare ask for evidence will invite only downvotes on lemmy.ml. Asking about such downvotes is “whining”. We shall not question our masters. Slurp slurp. Please, more off that delicious cum from lemmy.ml world news.

Nudding,

Hahaha are you trying to make a new copy pasta or something

mlg,
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

Leaked cable:

theintercept.com/…/imran-khan-pakistan-cypher-ukr…

IK being charged by attempting to disclose the secret cable:

reuters.com/…/ex-pm-imran-khans-leak-secret-cable…

TheFonz, (edited )

Wow. So i read the full transcript. A few points.

  1. We don’t know where this document originated and the intercept has not authenticated it (they at least claim as much)
  2. Nothing Lu said is out of line. Which part do you take umbrage with? Khan is definitely putting his spin on this.
mlg,
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

It’s pretty much been confirmed because Imran Khan released parts of the message that match the version the intercept received much later, of which I already pointed out he was charged with breaking the state secrets law.

Lu was very set on wanting Imran Khan gone via the NCV. This cable wasn’t meant to negotiate anything with Imran Khan or even tell him to rectify his stance on Ukraine. He said clearly that ties with Washington deteriorated and would only be restored if IK was removed.

More importantly, the cable was directed towards the Pakistan army who has the ultimate power in Pakistan (and incidentally has been bribed several times before). They did as they were asked and helped the NCV succeed by helping the opposition bribe and coerce party members to swap sides overnight. Then, they swiftly arrested IK, banned PTI as a political party, tortured and killed their party members, assassinated some journalists, shutdown the internet, banned Twitter, and called it a day.

It’s nothing new for the USA or even Pakistan, it’s just that this was probably the first grassroots populist party in Pakistan to ever get a chance at running the country and it lasted all but 5 seconds because that invovled the idea of foreign sovereignty which is something the USA doesn’t like.

They can and will use whatever means necessary to keep their leverage in the global geopolitical scene.

TheFonz, (edited )

I read the content of the transcript. A lot of leaps are being made from one diplomat’s statements. Lu simply said they don’t want to cooperate with a leader that is rubbing shoulders with Putin and it’s perfectly reasonable considering a) Pakistan is the recipient of US foreign aid b) Putin is doing his best to annex every territory around Russia that he can before anyone stops him. Whatever Pakistan did to oust him needs further proof that it is directly caused by US interference. I haven’t seen that yet.

Edit: you know what guys; this one politicians claims and a random cable is all we need. No further proof needed. American imperialism genocide colonialism western hegemony – did I get all the poli-sci 101 buzzwords in yet or did I leave any out? Someone needs to create an ‘america bad’ phrase generator already. That is the sum of discourse on Lemmy after all.

Nudding,

Honestly, we should assume us interference until proven otherwise.

TheFonz,

Honestly, we should rely on solid evidence. Exceptional claims require exceptional evidence.

Nudding,

That’s the thing. They aren’t exceptional claims. Would you like a list of democratically elected governments that have been toppled by the US gov’t?

TheFonz,

Is it from the last fifty years? Because if it’s Venezuela, Nicaragua, etc thats all agreed on. If you’re going to refer to that, then I get to apply the same logic and find fault with every other country in the world–we don’t get to pick and choose who we like. It doesn’t work like that. This is still an extraordinary claim for an event that happened last year.

Nudding,

Now you’re getting it, no country has clean hands, however America for sure has the bloodiest and most recent record of fuckery.

TheFonz,

“america had the bloodiest”- haha good one. North Korea, Russia, the Uyghuirs in China, and a couple dozen other countries would like a word. I love the selective outrage on this platform.

brain_in_a_box,

the Uyghuirs in China

Imagine thinking the situation I’m Xinjiang, which, even if all of the nonsense claims made by the far right lunatics like Adrian Zenz were true, still hasn’t resulted in any deaths, is worse than the millions upon millions of bodies that the USA left in its wake.

TheFonz, (edited )

Imagine selectively ignoring the rest of the context of my whole statement. Are you illiterate? Take the 61 famine alone which killed 30 million people thanks to mismanagement by Mao’s government. You guys are professionals at selective outrage.

Nudding,

30 million of his own people starving has nothing to do with illicit foreign affairs lol.

TheFonz,

why are you pivoting to foreign affairs. The statement was about which countries has the most blood on their hands. You love word games, don’t you?

Nudding,

I’m not pivoting at all, that’s what this comment thread is about, big guy.

brain_in_a_box,

Wow, you sure pivoted away from the Uyghur genocide conspiracy at mach speed. Good attempt to change the topic though; the idea of counting famine deaths from 60 years ago as an example of recent blood letting is so absurd it almost got me.

Nudding,

Those are the kinds of countries that you’d like to be lumped in with? Telling.

TheFonz,

Nop. Those where three countries that came up right away at the top of my head with least effort. I’d like to know how you came to your categorical declaration that “America has the bloodiest”. Again, it’s selective outrage. You guys are professionals at picking and choosing.

Nudding,

Not a bad place to start.

However it’s more of a pattern of behavior, so might take some more reading up on the history side of things.

TheFonz,

More grandstanding. Provide an argument instead of patronizing with “go read more”.

Nudding,

Someone still hasn’t read the link lol.

Nudding,

Maybe don’t be so offended when people rightly criticize your country. You didn’t choose to be born there.

TheFonz,

I’m not offended. I didn’t even grow up in the US. I just hate the low effort and poor media literacy on social media. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The whole “America bad” is a worthless schtick intended just for virtue signaling.

Nudding,

Lol then you need to read more.

TheFonz, (edited )

In my experience, anyone that has ever said “you need to read more” has either a) no substantive argument to make b) is equally ignorant on the topic at hand. I have yet to be proved wrong, such this lovely example right here. You guys are only interested in grandstanding. Which is fine, grandstanding makes you feel good, so you do you.

Nudding,

Lmao, cry much? Do you work for the propaganda department of the US or something? Why are you so unbelievably offended that America, “the world police”, has the most blood on their hands?

TheFonz,

I’ve noticed you like to load a lot of emotion in your language. “Cry much” “blood on hands”. I don’t care who has the most blood on their hands. I’d like to see more fact based discussion. Is that…too much to ask? Seems enough to have ruffled a few feathers. I guess I’ll go “cry more” now. Yikes.

Nudding,

You do you lol

Carrolade,

internationalism, anti-imperialism, and the empowerment of all people as political subjects with rights and responsibilities

That’s really rich when your soldiers are massed near Essequibo along a border with a country less than half your size.

Alsephina,

Like the Malvinas were colonized from Argentina by the UK for its resources and to put mililtary there, this region was annexed from Venezuela by the british-ruled Guyana for similar reasons.

Guyana’s current government is a US puppet regime that’s given megacorps like Exxon Mobil full access to its oil (which is also claiming oil reserves in Venezuela’s maritime borders through Essequibo), and is planning to place US military in Essequibo to aid in their trying to overthrow Venezuela. It makes sense to take measures to prevent this.

I honestly doubt they’ll go and actually annex Essequibo back, but it’s completely reasonable to at least place troops on the border to discourage US military from coming into the region.

Carrolade,

Yeah, US troops were not there first. And I know it goes against the grain a little bit, but not everyone that works with the US is some puppet of our evil empire or something.

Some people just choose to do business with our companies of their own free will, as outlandish as that may sound.

edit: Oh, and I had to look it up, but they’ve been their current size and shape for 200 years now. I don’t see how the Spanish colony of Venezuela has any more right than the British colony of Guiana.

Shiggles,

the Malvinas were colonized for resources

What resources do the Falklands have exactly? Fucking fish?

It was a convenient and well situated naval base historically, and now is perfectly able to declare independence if the population so wishes -the falklands just, shockingly, overall benefit from being a part of a larger and richer national entity.

Essequibo was disputed in colonial times, with the dispute being settled by an international tribunal. First it was about gold, now it’s about oil.

brain_in_a_box,

now is perfectly able to declare independence if the population so wishes -the falklands just, shockingly, overall benefit from being a part of a larger and richer national entity.

Hmm, very interesting. Now let’s hear your opinion on Crimea and Donbas.

Gsus4, (edited )
@Gsus4@mander.xyz avatar

I’m for the independence of any part of a country that wants it (after hearing everyone’s opinion), most large countries probably need to be broken up e.g. US, russia, China. But this is not the case, this is the largest country in the world absorbing a part of another country because some of its russian-speaking population wants to be russian but doesn’t want to move there.

You can ask for independence, but it’s just a scam when you do it just to irreversibly join their much larger neighbours, particularly if they are the ones sending weapons and people to kill you, take your rights away and send you to fight your own people.

PS: Oh shit, just realized that I’m in lemmy.ml instead of lemmy.world :/ sorry guys.

brain_in_a_box,

Ok, so you’re a massive hypocrite.

Gsus4,
@Gsus4@mander.xyz avatar

:/ it’s so sad to talk to you people.

Alsephina,

What resources do the Falklands have

Oil; same as Essequibo, hence my comment relating the two. You can look things up you know?

naval base historically

“Historically”? Lmao it has br*tish naval bases in it right now. Same thing the US wants to do with Essequibo.

international tribunal

Funny way to say imperialist colonizers. Now the difference is that the de facto leader of the imperial core is the US instead of the UK, and the former is interfering here now instead.

EnsignRedshirt,

Evergreen headline.

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