genchat, to genchat
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Oh, by the way: if you look earlier in the hashtag you'll see that Jan left us some presents (links) from last night! @genchat

genchat, to genchat
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Let's chat free-form about this! What have you researched? How have you researched? How has looking at FANs helped you? @genchat

genchat, to genealogy
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Hello, & welcome to our open mic about friends, associates & neighbors (FAN Club) in our research! @genchat

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Friends, associates, neighbors, “and the rest”… a fun coming up this Saturday! @genchat

RobertJackson58585858, (edited ) to random
@RobertJackson58585858@masto.ai avatar

There's something I still don't understand about .

My granny's grandad was buried at Witton Cemetery Birmingham in 1905. I confirmed ages ago with the Birmingham cemetery office he is buried in an unmarked grave in a communal plot.

I found a few minutes ago that he's got a memorial on Find a Grave created by "! WooWoo" who seems to have created 14,618,067 memorials and manages 15,050,447 memorials on Find a Grave.

All credit to "! WooWoo".

Busy lad.

:((


packrat74, to random

Interesting to see that many people on both M and the X-T site read "tax records" and equated that with "personal income taxes" without thinking of all the other records of taxes that may be out there. Use the FamilySearch Wiki, the RootsWeb Wiki, and other guides to find records you may have missed!

RobertJackson58585858, to random
@RobertJackson58585858@masto.ai avatar

Thank you all for your company ... an interesting topic that shows how differently different jurisdictions handle and disclose records (or not).

genchat, to genchat
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Just to shoehorn this in:
Q6 Name some resources that can help us get the most from tax records. @genchat

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Q5 What other avenues of research can tax records lead you to? @genchat (Kind of the opposite of Q1)

genchat,
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Q5, clarified: @genchat In other words, a tax record reveals "x" about an ancestor; and you want to find out more about "x".

RobertJackson58585858, (edited )
@RobertJackson58585858@masto.ai avatar

@genchat @genchat

A5 ... in the UK it might be via irregularities/scandal made public through old newspapers.

Esp as debts due to Inland Revenue supposedly take preference over others this topic often enough crops up in bankruptcies and business failures/maladministration.

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A4 @genchat Last night, we'd pretty much concluded that federal-level returns would not be available. But perhaps they may be as Jan pointed out, " Once tax records become archival, the archive's rules apply just as they would with any other historical records."

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Q4 Can we order our ancestors’ tax records from the government? @genchat

RobertJackson58585858,
@RobertJackson58585858@masto.ai avatar

@genchat @genchat

In the UK mostly not, sadly, except insofar as probate/inheritance tax/Wills are public??

genchat, to genchat
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A3 @genchat Some answers from last night:

Chris - Profession. Residence. How much they made. Work history. What jobs they had. Basically, it's kind of like a census but you have to pay 'em.
Jenny - Also, in tax records from the Russian Empire and Congress Poland, there will most likely be a patronymic listed for the tax payer’s father, which is valuable information. Occasionally, tax records from that area also listed the household composition of the tax payer.
Elizabeth - Land owned, improvements made (cabin, barn, etc), no land owned, livestock owned, age (look for first listing as Freeman) & then approx marriage date (now not a Freeman but had some livestock and maybe land)...
Cristina - If it's income taxes we can learn their occupation, whether they were an employee or ran their own business, and how much they made. And if they cheated on their taxes! Just kidding on that last one!

genchat, to genchat
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Q3 What kind of useful information can be gleaned from tax records? @genchat

RobertJackson58585858,
@RobertJackson58585858@masto.ai avatar

@genchat @genchat

A3 ... example rateable property records ... the owner of a property ... which can be problematical. Esp inaccuracies.

My great grandfather owned property ... Two houses which he bequeathed to his daughters. The Brum property record on ancestry gives his name for the one house and a slightly different name for the other house which has led me along a twisted inconclusive bunny trail before now.

genchat,
@genchat@lor.sh avatar

@RobertJackson58585858 @genchat Sometimes those surname variations can really get you!

RobertJackson58585858,
@RobertJackson58585858@masto.ai avatar

@genchat @genchat

This was a William Samuel Powell masquerading as Benjamin ... I was hoping this William fellah might have been an uncle ... a brother of Ben's father ... as I couldn't get back before Ben's father.

No such luck, obviously. All pre DNA.

Of course, Ben might not have wanted the rating office to know he owned both places, maybe??

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A2 @genchat Last night, Jan reminded us : Don't forget the FamilySearch Wiki! Check the articles about tax records and the finders which tell you what records are online. https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/United_States_Taxation

But some localities have historical records as well as current information. The only way to know what you can get is to look.

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A2 I had mentioned that in the US, some tax records are online (@genchat ): https://www.archives.gov/research/genealogy/tax-records

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Q2 Where (online/offline) can we find tax records? @genchat

genchat, to genealogy
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Well last night Jan (as usual) gave us a ton of helpful Info :

Modern property tax records can tell you when a house might have been built or remodeled, and sometimes even give you a footprint of the building and its rooms.

If you find records that someone owned property over a certain value, if you're thinking about when they came of age, or if they have income over a certain value. It depends on whether you are "boots on the ground" or looking online.

I highly recommend Judy G. Russell's webinars on the law and how it applies to our research, especially "How Old Did He Have to Be?" Knowing the law tells you when someone is likely to be on a tax list.

Knowing the law is so helpful for all the records we use for . I think it was Michael Hait who said in a webinar "Clerks don't keep records for fun."
Most records we use were kept because some law mandated them, or when people were keeping track of money.

Knowing each locality's laws are so important! You can search Judy G. Russell's blog, The Legal Genealogist, to get ideas for finding the laws for individual states, territories, or federal laws.

@genchat

RobertJackson58585858,
@RobertJackson58585858@masto.ai avatar

@genchat @genchat

While I think of it ... Planning applications are public documents ... not strictly on topic ... but nowadays recent ones are searchable online in some areas.

genchat,
@genchat@lor.sh avatar

@RobertJackson58585858 @genchat You're making me think: if an ancestor owned a business, perhaps the taxes that business paid may be more public as well.

genchat, to genchat
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Q1 What might tell us we need to start to look at tax records? @genchat

genchat,
@genchat@lor.sh avatar

@RobertJackson58585858 @genchat It counts! I'm using the phrase "tax records" very broadly.

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