Continuing my series of “you saw what movie with your mom?!,” I took my mom to see Challengers today. We had a great time and mom is now a certified Zendaya stan. She wants to see it again. She also loved the soundtrack.
@eliajf that’s awesome. See, for me, it’s always me dragging my mom to the movies you prob don’t expect to watch with your child. Like Brokeback Mountain and Call Me By Your Name and so on.
@jrey4u when I was 12 I walked in on my dad watching it on Showtime and I called him out on it. He didn’t need to know I was also watching it in my bedroom upstairs lol
Watching Linux distros (and yes, it is usually Debian packagers who act the most sanctimonious) shoot themselves in the face and then insult upstream AND the users of a popular package under the delusion that only the distro's self-declared experts are capable of making decisions is always a good reminder as to why you will never be able to waterboard me into using Linux as my primary desktop. Very sorry this is happening Team KeePassXC. https://fosstodon.org/@keepassxc/112417353193348720
@drwhitt oh, I think it is very emblematic of a lot of the bad/toxic parts of open source culture. It isn’t unique to OSS, but OSS culture (and I’m a huge OSS fan, but we have to be able to call the baby ugly) empowers and promotes lots and lots of anti-social behavior and even worse, puts those people in power.
@keyboardg@keepassxc I mean, this is the natural evolution. And I don’t always love Flatpak or Snaps, but I fully understand why so many pieces of software want to avoid the distro packagers at all costs. It’s a role that made a ton of sense 25 years ago. I think it is a role that still makes sense for non-GUI tools. But when packagers make decisions that negatively impact users without even communicating with upstream, that’s just not cool.
@kgMadee2 I agree with this but again, a change of this magnitude without any rational reason (I’m worried about future xz-like backdoors is not rational), especially when the features are turned off by default, and with Debian’s complete lack of willingness to alert users who now can’t access their password database b/c YubiKey support was removed, goes far beyond the RTFM expectations of using testing.
@kgMadee2 More disturbingly, these problems were found in testing and when users bring up the very real issues with this approach, the asshole packager has the nerve to insult upstream, insult users who use a password manager differently than him, and then has the temerity to call them “his” users. No. They use KeePassXC. They don’t belong to him just because they happen to use Debian.
@matdevdug in general, I agree with you. But thankless task or not, this maintainer decided to make decisions without even trying to coordinate for upstream — problems that will primarily affect upstream, and not this person or Debian — and did it in a way that will be most disruptive. And then when faced with the edge cases and problems of his own making, this asshole decides to insult the project and its users. Users he then claims belong to him.
@glassresistor ok, but how are users expected to know about this when this hits stable or Ubuntu or Mint and their various derivatives? All the user sees is that features they used to have enabled don’t work. Or that they now can’t access their password manager with their YubiKey. And Debian is historically very against any sort of user-alert. If there was actual user awareness, fine. But the response is “read the Debian.NEWS file” as if that is sufficient. And there should be complaints here!
@matdevdug I don’t like criticizing maintainers either but decisions like this are why so many developers are trying to cut the middleman of the packagers all together for the much clunkier world of flatpaks and snaps and appimages. And it’s frustrating to see.
@glassresistor I just think it’s a lousy decision and incredibly anti-user and it’s going to cause a lot of problems for upstream because downstream made unilateral decisions about what is and isn’t necessary. This is like what they did to @jwz all over again, except somehow worse, b/c these changes could mean people with YubiKeys can’t access their databases without installing a new package and downstream doesn’t seem to care as long as they put the poorly-worded update in the NEWS file.
@kgMadee2 But this will trickle down to stable! Ubuntu and all its derivatives use Debian testing for their repos and so that’s even more headache for upstream. And unless they have a CLI and GUI pop-up about the new keepassxc-full, existing users are still very much going to be out of the loop. There are ways to make this change and this was not the way.
@kgMadee2 I mean, I’m blaming Debian downstream because this is a problem that will proliferate for a year or longer. I’m not saying users shouldn’t be aware of what they are doing (but Debian testing is used by lots of distros and Debian knows this so saying don’t blame Debian for Ubuntu’s decisions, esp when this Debian maintainer works for Canonical doesn’t work when this has been status quo for 20 years), I’m saying this decision is bad and wrong.
@kgMadee2 should be, no. But after 20 years, it’s obtuse to pretend/ignore that Debian changes don’t have broader impact is my point. So changes need to be more considerate. But the real loser is upstream, who already has a heavier burden just from Debian users, even advanced users who knowingly choose Sid, because they file bugs upstream instead of with Debian. In this case, the person who maintains the Ubuntu package is almost certainly the same person anyway. Because he works at Canonical.