duringoverflow

@duringoverflow@kbin.social
duringoverflow,

If large companies and influential people move to Mastodon [...] and no ads.

large companies and influential people are in the commercial platforms because of the ads. There is literally no reason for them to move in a place without ads.

duringoverflow,

meta (threads) will not support fediverse already. They said they will do in some later version. So for the completely practical part, you don't need to do anything right now.

duringoverflow,

Am I just misunderstanding this?

yes

duringoverflow,

the defederation has nothing to do with "reducing meta's number". The reason to defederate is so you're not playing their game with their own rules. Fediverse will gain absolutely nothing by playing meta's game.

duringoverflow,

i'm sorry but you're naive.

If I want to post something and I want people to see it and react to it, I will post it to the side with more people.

do you know how FB or instagram work? Do you think that when you post, your post reaches your whole audience? I believe you know how they work but for some reason you chose to ignore now.

My argument is that the fedipact, if executed as desired by the people running it, will defederate from Meta and anywhere that federates with Meta.
So now you have 2 fediverses, completely separated from one another.

So, you've read the history of XMPP. Did you understand what google practically did? Simply put, meta will create new features on top of activity pub. Open source activity pub developers will be in a constant race to adapt their own projects in a way that will be compatible with meta's project. They will have no voice but to follow whatever meta decides. Users will start getting fed up that their open source instance is not behaving as well as their friend's meta instance. People will jump project and/or when users are polarised, meta will decide that they had enough with activity pub. It doesn't cover their needs and they move to another completely closed project. Users again are forces to choose side and the open source community is just left with the project which they adapted in favour of meta, but now meta is gone because they were never in the same boat actually.

Staying away from meta is a decision in the basis of protecting the whole project. It is not because people don't want to be close to the users of meta. It is because meta is not here to promote the federated networks. It is here to make profit of it and they may even destroy it if they believe that this is the way to make profit. Siding with them is naive and will never bring value in the network itself.

duringoverflow,

this argument makes sense only if you're talking about defederating instances. It doesn't make sense here. The problem is not whether we want the users of meta's instances. The problem is whether we want a huge corp be part of the fediverse. And why are we talking about it? Because people are trying not being naive and believing that meta is here because they liked the ideas of a federated network and want to participate. Meta will cause more harm than good as it has already happened in the past in different technologies/projects.

duringoverflow,

what you (and other likeminded people) haven't understood is that these 2 are 2 different topics. Defederating with meta is not because people don't want to be near the users of meta. It is because meta is a huge corp and it is not here to promote the idea of a federated network. It is here to make profit and to exploit the network. Allowing them to be part of the same network will just cause harm to the network itself in the end.

I suggest you reading this article https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html which is the story of how google killed XMPP, written by one of the XMPP core developers. I believe you will see the similarities.

@asjmcguire

duringoverflow,

i'm not here for the ton of content that meta will produce. If I wanted this content I would had been there in the first place. It looks like somebody else is in the wrong place and is dreaming of a fediverse full of brands trying to promote their products and the influencers pretending they are real life advertisements.

its funny that you measure value by that metric.

duringoverflow,

sure. But reddit was very far from what FB and instagram are. The culture that FB and/or instagram bring with them, is something that if I liked, I would had been there already

duringoverflow,

meta is not here to promote open networks. They will do more harm than good. If you want to learn more about how google achieved it with the XMPP you can read the story here https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html written by one of the core developers.

duringoverflow,

we are walking in a very dangerous path where people are tending to believe the AIs, like here people taking for granted that since the AI told that they do have an account, this statement must have a percentage of truth and they are shocked. They believe that the AI slipped and admitted it instead of it just made up a plausible reply.

duringoverflow,

you missed the point where the open source devs were in a constant race to adapt to all the google-"innovations" and actually troubleshoot on them which ends up demotivating

How do we get an instance removed?

It looks like a new spamming tactic will be to set up your own instance and then just mass spam to other instances from there. Case in point, vive.im I've been noticing spam in one magazine from a user of this. I banned them, but they can still post for some reason. Decided to visit the instance and it looks like some default...

duringoverflow,

i don't agree. I think it is important to maintain a blacklist instead of a whitelist where people would then submit what they need to add which will then will need to be approved etc. It will decrease the federated experience.

duringoverflow,

if you live in europe, the Mediterranean sea is you know, right next to you. And way much closer than the distance of the titanic to the shore in America, which is about 1000 nautical miles.

duringoverflow,

so you think that 2 governments would had started spending millions if 5 migrants had somehow been trapped in the seabed of the Mediterranean?

duringoverflow,

sure. It has nothing to do with the fact that in one of cases they are 5 billionaires while in the other one they are 750 poor migrants. No, totally not.

How do you feel about people upvoting their own posts?

I always thought it was a pretty smart idea on Reddit's side to have the posts and comments be automatically upvoted by their author, saving them the tough choice between playing fair or boosting their initial reach a little; and if you had particularly low self-esteem, this enabled you to reduce your own points by not one, but...

duringoverflow,

I liked reddit's approach. Self upvoting your posts if they aren't upvoted feels ridiculous. (ok, I have upvoted 1-2 of mine when trying to figure out how it works, but it still feels ridiculous)

So I would prefer if they are already pre-upvoted, or you should not be allowed to vote your posts/comments

When introducing members to kbin/lemmy don't mention the fediverse!

I introduced kbin to someone today who asked what the fediverse was. I answered for them of course, but it made me realize that the concept is still technobabble for most people. The average joe probably doesn't care or notice that server A is really talking to server B. Just have them find out on their own and if a mass...

duringoverflow,

this is not that simple. If a user joins an instance that has only a few users they will get disappointed because it will look empty and non-active. They need to understand that they can still join communities from another instances where they can find more users and activity and they can still interact with them

/kbin - a few quick announcements

Good morning! :) Today I want to focus mainly on reviewing the pull requests you've submitted. There are many great things there that will help improve the kbin experience. That's amazing, thank you! I'm also in the final stages of sorting out the infrastructure-related formalities. Soon, the situation with the website's...

duringoverflow,

there is an inconsistency I have noticed between kbin and lemmy in the format that such links are presented. The problem is in the exclamation mark. In lemmy it is required to show it is a community, however here it is not

For example if you write it as https://kbin.social/m/formula1@lemmy.ml you'll see it works. (Ok, the content is outdated because of the known problems but the you get the point)

duringoverflow,

what am I writing wrong?

your comment didn't offer anything. Good for you for learning JS I guess, but what did you expect from this comment?

OC The branding for kbin is perfect

The branding for kbin is perfect for capturing the reddit migrators. The biggest friction point for the Fediverse is choosing an instance. If I want to join Lemmy, googling Lemmy takes me to a landing page with no join button, telling me to go to these other sites. Some of these sites even actively discourage signups, creating...

duringoverflow,

agree. You start thinking what if the one you randomly chose is the problematic one, what if they don't follow best/good privacy/security practices, what if they are not an active collective/person and they forget updating their instance etc. Then you start thinking again: ok I'll go to the "main", default one, it must be a safe choice, you go there and you see that the main one has closed the registrations and you are still in the same position.

duringoverflow,

using your credit/debit card to verify your account is something that I also wouldn't like to do. Same as using my ID

duringoverflow,

but you're still "visiting" it. It is just your reader that makes the https request instead of your browser. In their logs and stats you are still visible. The only difference is that you will have a user-agent that shows that it is an RSS reader instead of a browser. Like:
"GET /atom.xml" 304 0 "Feedly/1.0 (+http://www.feedly.com/fetcher.html; 16 subscribers; like FeedFetcher-Google)"
And while you've the RSS reader open it while make requests periodically so we're talking for multiple visits as well.

duringoverflow,

that's not true. There are open source 3rd-parties like Infinity that are non-commercial.

duringoverflow,

I’m a software engineer

if you're a software engineer you should had known to make constructive comments and also most importantly realise that you are on a Non-commercial open source one-man-project. Your attitude is disgusting and you sound like the guys that nobody wants to work with. Nobody forces you to be here and you're welcome to go and please take your cancer with you on your way out.

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