Netehyahu is hell-bent on invading Rafah, when that happens and the body count skyrockets there are going to be a LOT of people with questions to answer, the protesting students will say "told you so" as with many others.
@Miro_Collas@snack@palestine They had a ceasefire before October 7th. And then they committed the biggest massacre of jews since the Holocaust. And said they would do it again and again and again. Palestinians suffer because of Hamas. Hamas more than Netanjahu has incentive to prolong this conflict so long as useful idiots in the West repeat their propaganda uncritically.
@bananarama@Miro_Collas@snack@palestine This isnt to say death is good. Of course it never is. But painting it as the biggest death of Jews since the holocaust frames it as a throughline of anti-semitism, from the Nazis to the evil Hamas. But its not. Its a throughline of Israeli colonisation of Palestine. October 7th was entirely avoidable. By stopping the colonisation. Anti colonial violence wont end until someone wins, and I hope its the colonised that win.
@gwit@Miro_Collas@snack@palestine Jews are indigenous to the Levant. They have lived there continuously since long before the arab conquenst. Was there an influx of jews returning from the diaspora after the establishment of Israel?Yes, but if anything that would be de-colonisation. Anti-semitism didn't start with the Nazis and sadly, it didn't end with them either. If you are looking for a throughline, look up Hitlers good pal Amin al-Husseini, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem under the British.
@bananarama Oh the Jews are indigenous to Palestine! Well, the ones that were already there. Most Israelis are European immigrants which are descendants of converts, not Palestinian refugees from the Romans etc.
@gwit "Palestinian refugees from the Romans", what are you even talking about? There was no Palestine then, it was the Roman Province of Judea. Where Romans destroyed the -wait for it- jewish temple in Jerusalem. Islam wouldn't even exist for another 600 years or so, btw. The Al-Aqsa Mosque was actually built on the temple ruins. Peak colonizer behaviour right there. And there is actually evidence of shared genetic ancestry among major jewish diaspora groups.
@gwit Now quick, tell me a) Who did the Romans colonize there (and when) and b) how many muslims or 'arab palestinians' lived there at the time. I'm not saying modern day Palestinians don't have some legitimate grievenances against Israel, but calling them colonizers is simply not true.
The Levant itself is a conception of Italian merchants expanded in meaning as convenient by Europeans (colonizers).
If Jewish movement to Palestine after the establishment of "Israel" through purges, and expulsions of Palestinians is "de-colonization" who was the colonizer in your perspective?
@NoFlexZone@gwit@Miro_Collas@snack@palestine I was using 'Levant' as a shorthand for the region. It was colonized mutliple times, starting with the Romans and ending with the Ottoman Empire (a Muslim conquest) and then the British Mandate. The Partition Plan for Palestine would have granted a sovereign state to Palestinian Jews and Muslims each, with Jerusalem under international control. Guess which side has waged bloody war against this for control of the whole territory ever since?
@8petros@palestine@Miro_Collas@gwit 1) Jews have had a continuous presence in what ist today Israel for thousands of years 2) Many 'european' Jews still have genetic markers proving middle eastern ancestry 3) they kept their language, religion and culture and 4) Many Israeli Jews are also refugees from other middle eastern countries where the Muslim majority persecuted them OR reverse the question: what ist your benchmark for losing indigineity? If anything it is de-colonisation.
@bananarama@Miro_Collas@gwit Ask the Jews who confront the settler state of Israel. It is your internal problem. Exporting the hutzpah will not solve it.
@8petros@palestine@Miro_Collas@gwit How? No seriously, how is that racist? Non-jews don't grow their babies in ethnically ambiguous fields, do they? And if you are talking about the religious aspect, anyone can convert (though it is a fairly intensive undertaking as I understand it, you have to learn about the language and religious texts etc.). Nobody is excluded because of their race. They just don't prosytelize like Christians or Muslims.
@8petros@palestine@Miro_Collas@gwit I wasn't arguing that Judaism is not matrilineal. I just don't how it is racist. Judaism is an ethno-religion which blurs the lines a bit, but no race is excluded from it.
@bananarama@Miro_Collas@gwit Whaterver you say, it is obvious that you, jJews, have a massive internal problem of identity (plus an intergenerational PTSD). It is ok, as long as dealing with it does not include killing other people in droves, stealing their land and get innocent bystamders involved.
@8petros@palestine@Miro_Collas@gwit You don't have to be jewish to support the right of Israel to exist and defend its citizens from the violent attacks of its neighbours. Illegal settlements are not helping (and unlawful by Israeli law btw), but if palestinians want to properly claim the land, they need statehood. Which they have always refused when offered because they oppose recognizing ANY jewish state. If the choice is peace with a jewish state or war, they choose war.
@bananarama@Miro_Collas@gwit As an anarchist I can only wonder why you, Jews, so badly crave state, which is nothing but the monopoly of violence - why not adopt #DemocraticConfederalism, for example. No state, no problem, no war.
@8petros@palestine@Miro_Collas@gwit I can't speak for the jews, but bringing your agenda into this aleady complicated conflict seems less than helpful. There is also a strong religious issue involved, and frankly I don't think anyone can live peacefully next to radical islamists anywhere in the world, jewish or not.
@8petros@palestine@Miro_Collas@gwit Also, painting the Israeli response to the mass slaughter of their people as some kind of PTSD respone is shameful. Hamas openly said they want to repeat October 7th. What kind of state would just sit and wait for the next attack?
@bananarama@Miro_Collas@gwit The intergenerational trauma started at least with the Shoah, and is openly and officially cultivated as the part of Israeli social conditioning. If you do not know it, you are hardly ready to discuss the topic.
@8petros@palestine@Miro_Collas@gwit Yes, there is trauma there, and Israel as a modern indepentent state which offers safe refuge should the world once more turn on its jews (we already see many of the same signs today) will be strongly defended. Understandably so. But if you call education about their history conditioning, that is disingenous. And you can't really be on a high horse on this issue when palesinian children learn this https://forward.com/opinion/566841/hamas-schools-indoctrination-antisemitic-textbooks-gaza/.
@MikeImBack@Miro_Collas@palestine Bringing up the Holocaust is relevant because Hamas openly admits to wanting all jews (not just those in Israel) dead. It is relevant because so much of the Pro-Palestine rhetoric is identical to Nazi propaganda. It is relevant because on Holocaust rememberance day Pro-Palis are protesting outside Auschwitz. It is relevant because 'Anti-Zionism' is the same old jew-hatred and if unchecked will lead to history repeated.
Re "Hamas openly admits to wanting all jews (not just those in Israel) dead."
More disinformation, KK, or eye-watering ignorance?
Quote: "Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews bcz of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine."
Disinformation in the face of Israel's genocide is utterly shameful.
@DrALJONES@MikeImBack@Miro_Collas Like this? On July 12, 2019, at a March of Return rally, aired on Hamas’s Al-Aqsa TV, Hamas Political Bureau member Fathi Hammad implored “you 7 million Palestinians abroad, enough warming up! There are Jews everywhere! We must attack every Jew on Earth – we must slaughter and kill them, with Allah’s help.” He instructed, “[w]e will die while exploding and cutting the necks and legs of the Jews. We will lacerate them and tear them to pieces, Allah willing!”
@DrALJONES@MikeImBack@Miro_Collas I tell you waht they said and your answer ist basically 'they said they didn't say it and if they did they didn't mean it'? Anyone can easily find this information
Re "they said they didn't say it and if they did they didn't mean it'?
Another disingenuous post.
Anyone can easily find this information:
"Hamas rejects official's call to 'slaughter Jews'"
"'Fathi Hammad's speech urging Palestinians to kill Jews worldwide... does not represent movement's official position', Hamas statement reads."
@DrALJONES@MikeImBack@Miro_Collas Or this? May 7, 2021, on a broadcast on Hamas’s Al-Aqsa TV, senior Hamas official Fathi Hammad called for Palestinians in Jerusalem to “cut off the heads of the Jews.” They openly admit this shit. Just not when they cry in front of Western Kameras.
@snack@Miro_Collas@palestine Hamas has agreed to a ceasefire with agreeable terms; Israel will not accept it because killing Palestinians is their goal. Israel constantly gives horrible deals to make it look like Hamas is stopping peace, but they are lying.
@Miro_Collas@palestine Children are literally starving to death and in so many ways it is on us (and by US, I mean the USA). Check out this kids' legs.
North Gaza is starving and the last time we did so much as an airdrop run was on the 30th. A single flight of 3 planes delivering 30 tons in a week.
300k people need about 200 tons per day to survive and we dropped 2.1% of that.
@Miro_Collas@palestine We've got over 600 C-130 and C-17 airplanes in the US military. It's the largest airdrop capable fleet in the world. We have continuous production contracts for Humanitarian Daily Rations (specifically designed for aid work to staving populations) with the 3 companies which make our MREs. Evidence suggests we have tens of millions of the things in US government warehouses. We've sold several millions of them at GSA auctions since October.
@Miro_Collas@palestine They're meant to supply a full day's worth of balanced nutrition to a malnurish human (unlike MREs, which are meant for well nourished active soldier's). A single bag includes everything needed to feed that person for a day. You can load 17-18k of them in a single C-130. You basically would need to run 17 C-130 flights per day to relieve North Gaza. The US has that capability and isn't using it...so yeah, it's a PR effort, not an earnest effort at providing relief.
@Miro_Collas@palestine I recently learned that musician The Weeknd has donated over twice as much food to Gaza as the US has through its airdrop effort. I'm not even joking. That's how pathetic the US air effort has been, that a single determined rich guy can get more aid through than the US government.
@Miro_Collas@Infoseepage@palestine Not whatabouting for the US here - it definitely should stop weapons shipments and heavily increase aid - but why can't other countries and their air forces do the same? It would seem like not just the right, just thing to do to save innocent people but an absolute "we're better than the US" PR win for any country with an air force involved (plus, while I'm aware of the USS Liberty, I doubt that Israel would shoot down say a Chinese aid drop...)
@Miro_Collas@mybarkingdogs@palestine The US aid flights are out of Jordan. It's about 140 miles to the airfield they're using. Some Jordanian planes have participated. Also, a lot of the actual food is coming from Jordan. The US seems to be supplying uniformly MREs, which are not appropriate for this work.
@Miro_Collas@mybarkingdogs@palestine The HDR was specifically developed because of the poor suitability of MREs for aid work. There are many reasons why it is unsuitable, one is that it isn't halal/kosher. The bigger concern is the high protein content in MREs, which in past use in places like Somalia have sent people into refeeding syndrome, which can be fatal in starving people which is now the case here. MREs were never appropriate, but now they're doubly so.
@Miro_Collas@mybarkingdogs@palestine HDRs pack a full day of nutrition into a multi-layer soft pouch which is designed to survive being dropped from planes without parachutes. They also float, so they wouldn't be lost to the sea as so many have in the US airdrop (resulting in drownings). You can also pack a lot more calories per plane, with 17-18k HDRs (providing 2300-2400 calories each) fitting inside a C-130.
@Miro_Collas@mybarkingdogs@palestine And because you're not using a pallet/chute/wrapping for the drop, you don't run risks of chute failure sending 1000 pound of food through someone's roof. It also reduces prep time per flight. You just load them into open topped cardboard boxes and let them spill out the back. That's how we've airdropped them in the past, by the way. Here's what that looks like, when we dropped like 800k of them over Afghanistan.
@Miro_Collas@mybarkingdogs@palestine If all the US were willing to do was an airdrop effort, it could have very easily done a legit one which would relieve the famine in North Gaza - and they could still do this now.
The US has tens of millions of these rations in US warehouses and at least 27 million of a similar emergency ration called a SDR and has what are essentially "manufacture on demand" contracts with the 3 HDR makers which is prebudgeted through 2027.
@Infoseepage
There is obviously no interest to do so. Palestinians don't matter. But Biden is facing elections so making noises about Rafah, and PR drops is what we get.
@Miro_Collas@mybarkingdogs@palestine We could very easily put them on one of the US military's fast transport ships (among the fastest cargo vessels in the world) which are capable of making the transit from the US east cost to Cyprus in 6-7 days. From there, it is a 250 mile plane flight to Gaza.
We could be running 2 flights of 9 C-130's a day or 3 flight of 6 C-130's a day out of Cyprus and be dropping enough food to prevent the famine in North Gaza. This has always been an option.
@Miro_Collas@mybarkingdogs@palestine All of this is already paid for and Biden could order North Gaza relieved with the stroke of a pen. That he has the power to do so and doesn't makes him complicit in this genocide. That he is supplying the arms for it after it has been well evidenced how Israel will use them make him a party to it. President Biden is an aider and abettor of genocide and he deserves to be indicted as a war criminal imo.
It's a pity the# US won't send #gaza as many of the HDR packs as they do bullets to #Israel. 25,000 meals won't go far in a population of 2 million.
AND, luckily for those still starving on the small amount of aid, help is coming. The $ billions in #US weaponry being given for free to #Israel means soon there won't be so many #Palestinians to worry about feeding.....
@KarunaX@Miro_Collas@mybarkingdogs@palestine I spent a month eating nothing but Humanitarian Daily Rations to call attention to their existence and the fact that we've not used them in Gaza, despite them literally being designed for the government as a replacement for MREs in aid work.
There is some evidence they might be used with the floating pier JLOTs thing, but that doesn't actually exist at this point and construction hasn't even begun.
WCK had a jetty operational in Gaza in middle of March, just a week after the JLOTs thing was announced at the SOTU. That jetty still exists and at any time the US could have been passing HDRs to NGOs in Cyprus for delivery to Gaza and been delivering hundreds of tons of food daily to the north without ever a single US boot on the ground.
President Biden doesn't actually want to relieve Gaza. That's the conclusion I've reached.
@mybarkingdogs@Miro_Collas@Infoseepage@palestine Other countries dont have hundreds of airforce bases in the middle east, they dont really have the ability to. As Miro said, Arab countries wont because theyre beholden to the US, and even when they try they have very little resources for it.
@gwit@Miro_Collas@Infoseepage@palestine Good point, and I will apologize and delete. I definitely don't want to seem like I am defending the US's lack of inaction - it was more a question of "why can't one of the US's geopolitical adversaries help, therefore weakening US hegemony while Doing Better" and now I know why. Thank you
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