grayjay.app

sir_reginald, to piracy in A better Revanced
@sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

basically Newpipe but only source available, not really free software or open source, so they are restricting your freedoms.

Just keep using Newpipe instead.

Petter1,

I could not find a link to the source on the website ๐Ÿค” do you know where the source is?

Edit: gitlab.futo.org/videostreaming/grayjay

LemmyNameMyself,
@LemmyNameMyself@lemmy.world avatar

It is open source but you canโ€™t publish modified code (this is to ensure there will be no malicious forks like there was with newpipe)

plus you missed the entire point:

โ€ฆ app for watching online video content - not just youtube, but nebula, peertube, twitch and more.

Itโ€™s an app that allows you to watch the same creators across many platforms

rush,

newpipe does YouTube, SoundCloud, Peertube, and Bandcamp. NewPipe isnโ€™t YouTube-Only.

HughJanus,

It does them very poorly

lukas,

https://gitlab.futo.org/videostreaming/grayjay/-/blob/1ac70dba3f3de9bdde00b5a58464f34003cbedf2/LICENSE (FTL) violates the following open-source principles:

  • Open source licenses must allow free redistribution. FTL allows license suspension and termination at any time, without notice, for any or no reason.
  • Open source licenses must allow source code distribution. FTL allows restrictions to access the code at any time, without notice, for any or no reason.
  • Open source licenses must allow modifications. FTL allows modifications only for non-commercial use, or maybe not even that. FTL dodges the word modifications here, no clue.
  • Open source licenses must explicitly allow distribution of software built from modified source code. FTL forbids distribution of software built from modified source code for commercial use.
  • Open source licenses must not discriminate against persons/groups and fields of endeavor. FTL allows license suspension and termination at any time, without notice, for any or no reason.

The FTL enables the following practices:

  • Copyright holders can change the license terms.
  • Copyright holders can re-license everything.
  • Copyright holders can target specific groups and individuals with discriminatory license terms.
  • Copyright holders can close source everything.
  • Copyright holders can forbid specific groups and individuals from using their work.
hiddengoat,

Your avatar is not ironic, is it?

Lennard,

Wow, this is a high quality comment.

I guess itโ€™s understandable to be concerned about licensing when putting money and work into a project like this, but I still hope they change their mind.

MonkCanatella,

โ€œopen sourceโ€ to enshittification pipeline license

loudWaterEnjoyer,
@loudWaterEnjoyer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

FLOSS or die

figaro,

Whew

Chewy7324,

The term โ€œopen sourceโ€ generally refers to the definition by the Open Source Initiative.

opensource.org/osd/

Not allowing publishing of modified source code is in violation with the criteria of open source.

DrQuint,

โ€ฆso itโ€™s newpipe.

newIdentity,

You canโ€™t search multiple platforms at once with newpipe. This is a bigger thing that you think.

Also it has recommendations

520,

It is open source but you canโ€™t publish modified code (this is to ensure there will be no malicious forks like there was with newpipe)

  1. that is not open source. That is source available.

  2. because we all know that license agreements are a line that trojan distributors will not cross. Not malware distribution, not hacking laws, but copyright infringement. They'd never do that at all.

Hate,

because we all know that license agreements are a line that trojan distributors will not cross. Not malware distribution, not hacking laws, but copyright infringement. Theyโ€™d never do that at all.

I believe it would be significantly easier to submit a takedown request for copyright issues, compared to reporting an app for being malicious.

520, (edited )

That's not the case at all. These kind of Trojan operations are fly-by-night setups, and have the advantage of being able to react far faster than the official Devs. By the time you as the dev even know of the app's existence, they've already infected hundreds. And when you do get round to filing a takedown notice, they'll be back up the next day under a different name.

Even Nintendo can't get copyright infringing shit off Play Store in any fast capacity. Heck, Google will even run ads for people blatantly breaking copyright laws.

Edit: and that's before considering that Google won't let them onto play store and being only source available excludes them from eligibility for official F-Droid repos. They're going to have an absolute bitch of a time dealing with fakes and Trojans, even if they didn't release the source code at all

skullgiver, (edited )
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • figaro,

    I mean, at least in this case he can take down fake copies from the most popular app stores. That mitigates the reach of malicious clones a lot.

    Kidplayer_666,

    Thatโ€™s not the problem. The question is, stopping actors that put ads and paywalls behind modified source, which technically isnโ€™t malicious, itโ€™s just being a jerk and this licensing makes it much easier to take down. Ofc, if he actually wanted it to be open source, heโ€™d just force all derivatives to be non commercial.

    iHUNTcriminals,

    Yeahโ€ฆ Youโ€™re not going to stop any of that without war.

    can,

    Oh yeah, because someone who wants to do that is going to see that and think oh no, he doesnโ€™t want us to, guess we shouldnโ€™t

    Kidplayer_666,

    Thatโ€™s not the point. The point is takedown actions being a lot easier especially if one of the idiots tries to argue against

    firesDump,

    The point is, that anyone who tries to make money by ad-bombing the app and adding it to the playstore will be punished. If you post your virus-infected fork in the far-behind edge of internet-nowhere Louis would not care about that. Otherwise: why do you not ask him yourself if you want to post your own fork and under which conditions that should be possible. If you ride principles, then develop your own app that is much much better and FOSS than grayjay. Nobody stops you.

    hiddengoat,

    Rossman is an idiot, that's how. Luckily he's a useful idiot in most cases.

    erg,

    I donโ€™t believe newpipe has a way to cast so thatโ€™s what Iโ€™m interested in here

    PeachMan,
    @PeachMan@lemmy.world avatar

    Have you used it? Itโ€™s like NewPipe except that itโ€™s better in almost every way. The ONLY downside is that itโ€™s just old-fashioned open source instead of FOSS.

    Snapz,

    Itโ€™s not open source

    lukas,

    Source available has never been the definition of open-source.

    HughJanus,

    โ€œopen sourceโ€ is a self explanatory phrase. The source code is open, therefore itโ€™s open source.

    PeachMan,
    @PeachMan@lemmy.world avatar

    Incorrect. People have been calling random software open source since the 80s, because itโ€™s a very vague term. The new definition that you think is gospel wasnโ€™t invented until the OSI was formed in '98.

    mnemonicmonkeys,

    If you watch the video, Louis explains why they only made it source available

    lukas,

    Nah, Louis explains that the app is open-source, but describes open-source as source-available.

    PoliticallyIncorrect, to piracy in A better Revanced
    @PoliticallyIncorrect@lemmy.world avatar

    Is it better than NewPipe x SponsorBlock?

    Duck, to piracy in A better Revanced

    Tried playing YouTube and it kept crashing and gave up. Iโ€™m happy with NewPipe

    Blackmist, to piracy in A better Revanced

    โ€œNot compatible with my deviceโ€ sadly. Probably Android version since my phone is old as all fuck.

    c0mbatbag3l,
    @c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

    If youโ€™re trying through the app store I would suggest the website, it has a few different options including non ARM device architecture!

    SirStumps, to piracy in A better Revanced
    @SirStumps@lemmy.world avatar

    Godly

    mechoman444, to piracy in A better Revanced

    The issue with all this is the general architecture of the internet, web browsers and programming languages and such arenโ€™t going to fundamental change just because Google needs to see more ad revenue.

    The harder they try to stick with this method of profiteering the harder the push back will be. There will always be ad block as long as there are ads.

    All theyโ€™re doing is showing their cards and setting themselves up for defeat!

    Unreliable, to piracy in A better Revanced

    So I have multiple YouTube accounts under the same email. I tried to important my subscriptions but it takes them from the wrong account. Is there a way to select accounts?

    niemcycle,

    This was my issue as well, I didnโ€™t see the option to select unfortunately.

    bionicjoey, to piracy in A better Revanced

    I really hope they add sponsorblock and dearrow support in the future because this is a truly awesome app.

    c0mbatbag3l,
    @c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

    Dearrow is so nice, fuck them clickbaits.

    CausticFlames, to piracy in A better Revanced

    I just bought the FUTO voice input app as well from them and itโ€™s genuinely amazing. It has punctuation where it needs to. It cuts out all the UMโ€™s. And the best part is, I donโ€™t have to pretend that Iโ€™m talking to a robot. I can just speak as if Iโ€™m talking to a normal person and it gets it right nearly every single time. It is so worth the $5.

    This entire comment was typed with it, and I did not edit a single thing.

    Puddy,

    Thank you so much for this suggestion. Itโ€™s really a great step towards the end of tedious voice messages. Works great but is a bit slow when using the multilang voice model. I donโ€™t mind.

    Lanky_Pomegranate530, to piracy in A better Revanced
    @Lanky_Pomegranate530@midwest.social avatar

    I downloaded this app yesterday and I love it.

    MakerThe11, to piracy in A better Revanced

    I wouldnโ€™t classify it as a better revanced, but that doesnโ€™t matter, thanks for sharing this awesome tool I really liked it, I first started incorporating Matrix in my life, then a couple days ago Lemmy, and now this, itโ€™s great

    unworthy,

    What is this Matrix you are talking about?

    MakerThe11,

    matrix.org

    Search for Elements aswell with Matrix

    unworthy,

    Interesting, thank you for sharing.

    MakerThe11,

    You are welcome ๐Ÿค—

    DAMunzy, to piracy in A better Revanced

    Nice. I definitely have to check it out. I pay for Nebula/Curiosity Stream but am not able to play the Nebula videos with the screen off like I can with ReVanced. Hopefully I can with Grayjay.

    cypherpunks, to piracy in A better Revanced
    @cypherpunks@lemmy.ml avatar

    please edit this post to remove the incorrect claim that this is open source, as it is clearly not.

    I_like_cats,

    It is not free software but it is open source. Stop gatekeeping the term. I can look at the code and modify it to my hearts content. I can also watch as the project is being developed. That means itโ€™s open source. It would be free software if you where also allowed to redistribute it but I can fully see why they do not want that

    cypherpunks,
    @cypherpunks@lemmy.ml avatar

    it is open source. Stop gatekeeping the term

    i guess you didnโ€™t click the link in my comment? here is another, with a list of governments and other entities who all agree about the definition: opensource.org/authority/

    I_like_cats,

    Oh so what youโ€™re trying to say is that, because the license they chose is not on this list, itโ€™s not open source. Stupid take IMO but you do you

    cypherpunks,
    @cypherpunks@lemmy.ml avatar

    It isnโ€™t about the list of approved licenses, itโ€™s about the criteria for being added to the list. New licenses regularly meet the definition. This license clearly does not.

    pewgar_seemsimandroid,

    so what Edward Snowden developed a closed source license

    cypherpunks,
    @cypherpunks@lemmy.ml avatar

    oh cool, if Edward Snowden did it I guess software freedom isnโ€™t important anymore ๐Ÿ™„

    But seriously, did he? which one? Iโ€™m not familiar with that.

    But even if he did release something under one, I would be extremely surprised if he called a non-free license โ€œopen sourceโ€ as FUTO is doing here.

    pewgar_seemsimandroid, (edited )

    top 10 most deserving people to be on an emkay video number 2:

    edit: also i borderline didnโ€™t understand what he was saying

    DAMunzy,

    gitlab.futo.org/videostreaming/grayjay/โ€ฆ/LICENSE: FUTO TEMPORARY LICENSE It seems like itโ€™s more CC non-commercial and not truly libre but I can understand why someone would say open source.

    cypherpunks,
    @cypherpunks@lemmy.ml avatar

    I can understand why someone would say open source

    I can understand why too: itโ€™s either because they were not aware of the widely agreed-upon definition of the term, or because theyโ€™re being disingenuous. Iโ€™m assuming it was the former; whether OP edits the post will reveal if it was actually the latter.

    JohnDClay,

    The source is freely available, but it does not fit the common definition of open source. Namely, youโ€™re not allowed to redistribute with tracking, malware, or adds. I guess this has been a problem with piped?

    Skimmer,

    Yes, this has been a major issue for NewPipe, see here.

    Scary_le_Poo,
    @Scary_le_Poo@beehaw.org avatar

    Oh go on you absolute fucking blowhard. Go print out a copy of osi and jerk off in your closet and leave the rest if us functional adults alone.

    Flatworm7591,
    @Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    This whole discussion is like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It depends completely on how you define open source, and there is no single universally agreed upon definition. Per this article, there are over 80 variations of open source licenses all with different term and conditions. Some are more permissive, some less so. Yet they can all be considered a variation of open source, though Iโ€™m anticipating you wouldnโ€™t agree? For this particular app, there are some restrictions in place aimed to protect users from malicious forks. IMO this is a good thing. I canโ€™t understand why you are acting like the definition police here, it seems very pedantic tbh.

    Many software buyers โ€“ even new developers โ€“ misunderstand the term โ€œopen sourceโ€ to mean the software is available to use, copy, modify, and distribute as desired. This misunderstanding may arise from confusing open source with public domain or shareware, both of which are free to use and modify without specific permissions or licensing.

    The truth is that, for the most part, open-source software is covered by one of several types of open source licenses and is not necessarily free of charge either.

    In contrast to proprietary software where vendors typically make it impossible to access, copy or modify the source code, open source code permits the use, reuse, sharing, modification, and distribution of the code in other programs or applications. But just as with proprietary software licensing, open source software is subject to various legal terms and restrictions, depending on the type of open source license in force.

    Franzia,

    What fresh hell of goalpost moving is this? Youโ€™re so bad faith.

    cypherpunks, (edited )
    @cypherpunks@lemmy.ml avatar

    there is no single universally agreed upon definition

    There is an overwhelmingly agreed-upon definition. Look at who agrees with it: opensource.org/authority/

    And who doesnโ€™t agree? Historically, a few of the giant software companies who were threatened by the free software movement thought that โ€œopen sourceโ€ was a way for them to talk the talk without walking the walk. However, years ago, even they all eventually agreed about OSIโ€™s definition and today they use terms like source-available software for their products that donโ€™t meet it.

    Today it is only misinformed people like yourself, and grifters trying to profit off of the positive perception of the term. Iโ€™m assuming Louis Rossman is in the former category too; weโ€™ll see in the near future if he acknowledges that the FUTO license is not open source and/or relicenses the project under an open source license.

    there are over 80 variations of open source licenses all with different term and conditions. Some are more permissive, some less so. Yet they can all be considered a variation of open source, though Iโ€™m anticipating you wouldnโ€™t agree?

    There are many open source licenses, and many non-open-source licenses. there is a list of licenses which OSI has analyzed and found to meet their definition; licenses which arenโ€™t on that list can be open source tooโ€ฆ but to see if they are, you would need to read the license and the definition.

    Have you read The Open Source Definition? Iโ€™m assuming not.

    I canโ€™t understand why you are acting like the definition police here, it seems very pedantic tbh.

    Itโ€™s because (1) FUTO are deceiving their customers by claiming that their product is something which it isnโ€™t, and (2) theyโ€™re harming the free and open source software movements by telling people that terms mean things contrary to what they actually mean.

    Flatworm7591,
    @Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    You make some good points, but whether it exactly meets every criteria of open source software as per that definition or not, I really canโ€™t bring myself to care that much either way. I get that itโ€™s important to you, and thatโ€™s fine, but not everyone cares that much about it. People can read and vet the source code, the intention of the project seems good, and the intention of the authors in deviating slightly from pure open source principles seems to be to protect their users from scammy clones, which also seems fine with me. TBH weโ€™re not really into strictly following the letter of the law in the pirate community, and if this app helps people to avoid surveillance capitalism and puts even the slightest dent in Googleโ€™s massive profits then Iโ€™m all for it. Anyways, have a good one.

    cypherpunks, (edited )
    @cypherpunks@lemmy.ml avatar

    deviating slightly from pure open source principles

    saying that prohibiting redistribution is just โ€œdeviating slightly from pure open source principlesโ€ is like saying that a dish with a bit of meat in it is just โ€œdeviating slightlyโ€ from a vegetarian recipe.

    if you saw a restaurant labeling their food as vegetarian because their dishes were based on vegetarian recipes, but had some meat added, would you say that it seems like their intentions are good?

    to protect their users from scammy clones

    As I said in another comment, the way free open source software projects should (and can, and do) generally do this is using trademark law. He could license it under any free software license but require derivatives to change the name to avoid misleading or confusing users. This is what Firefox and many other projects do.

    TBH weโ€™re not really into strictly following the letter of the law in the pirate community

    In the video announcing the project Louis Rossmann explicitly says he intends to vigorously enforce this license. Since it is a copyright license, the only ways of actually enforcing it are to send DMCA takedowns and/or sue people for copyright infringement.

    ToxicWaste,

    I have found three comments from you, where you insert yourself as an expert on what Open Source is/not is. Although you do link to some sources, you do so without arguing your point. IMO this is not a constructive way of communication. Since I believe your perspective is purist but overall not too helpful, I will go through the trouble an actually argue the point:

    Your problem is following sentence published by the OSI: โ€œThe license shall not restrict any party from selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources.โ€ Which FUTO does - they wonโ€™t allow you to put ads on top of their software and distribute it. But I hope that you would agree with me that GNU GPL is an Open Source License. However, they do have a copyleft which practically makes selling software impossible. If you use a library which uses the GPL, you have to make your sources available - which makes selling a compiled version a difficult taskโ€ฆ

    If we look at Wikipedia, we see following sentence: โ€œGenerally, open source refers to a computer program in which the source code is available to the general public for use or modification from its original design.โ€, Grayjay fulfils this. Wikipedia continues: โ€œ{โ€ฆ}. Depending on the license terms, others may then download, modify, and publish their version {โ€ฆ}โ€, you are allowed to download and modify Grayjay. They do not allow you to commercially distribute your modifications, which is a license term.

    Lets look at a big OSS company. Red Hat writes: โ€œAn open source development model is the process used by an open source community project to develop open source software. The software is then released under an open source license, so anyone can view or modify the source code.โ€ These criteria are fulfilled by the FUTO TEMPORARY LICENSE (Last updated 7 June 2023). Red Hat does not mention the right to redistribute anywhere I could find it.

    To those who actually read up to this point: I hope you find this helpful to form your own opinion based on your own research.

    cypherpunks,
    @cypherpunks@lemmy.ml avatar

    since you copy+pasted this wall of confused text to me in 3 different places I guess Iโ€™ll reply here too, in the not-deleted thread: opensource.org/authority/ (this is not even a controversial topic)

    patatahooligan,
    @patatahooligan@lemmy.world avatar

    You can argue that โ€œopen sourceโ€ can mean other things that what the OSI defined it to mean, but the truth of the matter is that almost everyone thinks of the OSI or similar definition when they talk about โ€œopen sourceโ€. Insisting on using the term this way is deliberately misleading. Even your own links donโ€™t support your argument.

    A bit further down in the Wikipedia page is this:

    Main article: Open-source software

    Generally, open source refers to a computer program in which the source code is available to the general public for use for any (including commercial) purpose, or modification from its original design.

    And if you go to the main article, it is apparent that the OSI definition is treated as the de fact definition of open source. Iโ€™m not going to quote everything, but here are examples of this:
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software#Definiโ€ฆ
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software#Open-sโ€ฆ

    And from Red Hat, literally the first sentence

    Open source is a term that originally referred to open source software (OSS). Open source software is code that is designed to be publicly accessibleโ€”anyone can see, modify, and distribute the code as they see fit.

    โ€ฆ

    What makes software open source?

    And if we follow that link:

    In actuality, neither free software nor open source software denote anything about costโ€”both kinds of software can be legally sold or given away.

    But the Red Hat page is a bad source anyway because it is written like a short intro and not a formal definition of the concept. Taking a random sentence from it and arguing that it doesnโ€™t mention distribution makes no sense.

    Here is a more comprehensive page from Red Hat, that clearly states that they evaluate whether a license is open source based on OSI and the FSF definitions.

    JokeDeity, to piracy in A better Revanced

    Better than Revanced? So it can access all my watch history, comments, votes, subscriptions, etc? If not, then itโ€™s not better for me.

    JadenSmith, to privacy in Shout-out to Grayjay

    I find it strange that they immediately called it a โ€œbetter ReVancedโ€, when apart from the feed thing it doesnโ€™t have nearly as many features as ReVanced.

    Has anyone come up with an actual reason to switch? Because I have a feeling ReVanced is still better?

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