TORFdot0,
  1. You shouldn’t really bully anyone autistic or not
  2. Don’t mistake someone trying to encourage positive behavior as bully. Just because you have one of these behaviors doesn’t mean you correctly self-diagnosed yourself with autism either
stoly,

Positive according to whom? What’s positive for you may be destructive for me.

SuddenDownpour,

Which ones of these are bad behavior?

ChexMax,

Meltdowns often include bad behavior. If your meltdown includes slamming a door, cursing at someone, yelling in an inappropriate setting, disparaging someone else’s preferences, choices, or lifestyle: that’s bad behavior and someone calling that out, or excluding you from activities due to those behaviors isn’t bullying no matter if that behavior can be explained by autism or not.

TORFdot0,

None of them are exactly bad behaviors. Just encouraging trying new things and effective self regulation as positive behaviors, is my point

inasaba,

Upholding the hegemony of neurotypicality as the “acceptable” way to be, and the encouraging of neurodiverse people to mask their (fine, unharmful) behaviours. Masking which actively harms them.

All this does is promote ongoing ableism. I beg that you read something about the experiences of autistic people and come to understand how marginalized and harmed they are by this continual shaming of these traits. Traits that are not harmful, or even uncommon. They’re just different, and less normalized.

TORFdot0,

Thank you for your perspective, my intent isn’t to cause harm, so I will take your comments to heart

StitchIsABitch,

Encouraging someone to do something doesn’t mean them not doing it is bad. I can encourage you to try mayo instead of ketchup on your fries, without implying that you’re an asshole for eating your fries with ketchup. Also, I’m pretty sure me saying “maybe you’d like fries with mayo if you tried it” isn’t bullying. I faced a lot of these issues when I was younger, and while I don’t think it works like that for everyone, I genuinely got over a bunch of them by just forcing myself to confront them.

The point stands that people should be less self-centred when it comes to what’s ‘normal’, but some of the examples in the tweet come off as (ironically) quite judgemental.

intensely_human,

Also, I’m pretty sure me saying “maybe you’d like fries with mayo if you tried it” isn’t bullying

It is kind of dehumanizing though, because who over the age of fifteen hasn’t yet experimented with various french fry sauces?

The presupposition here is that they didn’t try it.

Globeparasite,
mycathas9lives,

What a minute…autism is not a blood type?

BigTurkeyLove,

Does anyone have that image of the fucked up fork meme that was going around a few days ago?. I hated that one and was telling about it but couldn’t find it.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Is it this one? I never saw it, but I googled “fork meme” and this was a likely candidate.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6f/bf/d5/6fbfd5467db0bd370208fa70c91460a7.jpg

intensely_human,

That fork looks like it would be handy for keeping a window propped open

TankovayaDiviziya,

Not to defend the insulting but most people don’t realise that the person is autistic. Autism has different spectrum and some of the symptoms are very subtle for the untrained. I have a family member who is diagnosed with autism late in life, which explains a lot when we were growing up.

Fedizen,

thats the joke tho

SuddenDownpour,

That is true and fair, and the fact that plenty of these issues come from ignorance is good enough for me to think that not everyone that the post is calling out is some sort of irredeemable moral failing. Though that only goes as far as the people involved are willing to listen and understand that on the best of days, atypical, innocuous behavior isn’t something you should be mocking, that you only have the impulse to do so because your monkey brain wants to punch someone down the social hierarchy ladder and that’s pretty fucking dumb; and on the worst of days, it’s yet another contributing factor to complete social alienation and internalized shame for autistic people.

Maeve,

Maybe we should raise our standard to "don't bully."

BreakDecks,

While I agree that we should avoid bullying rather than just avoiding bullying specific groups, this might go too far. We should just make a whitelist of people who you can bully, like Republicans or people who watch reality television.

JasonDJ,

If we’re going here…

Whitelist isn’t the preferred nomenclature. Use terms like allow-list or permit-list.

JoeBigelow,
@JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca avatar

So now what do we call the opposite list?

JasonDJ,

Usually a deny-list or a block-list.

These are the inclusive terms that are getting adopted in IT, at least, and they usually work in that context. Maybe not for everything.

AngryCommieKender,

So what the heck are we calling “Grey-hats” now?

Edit: not to mention the other two hat terms

quaternaut,

At my company, white hat hackers are to be called “offensive security researchers”. Black hat hackers are to be called “attackers”.

DEADBEEF,

Don’t forget about the whole master/slave thing or how often programmers kill children.

JasonDJ,

I think grey still is acceptable, at least until the martians start demanding equal rights.

I think terms like “legal grey area” don’t have the same connotations as black/white do, because “grey” isn’t really used as an adjective for a person.

I still refer to our oldschool Linux admins as greybeards. I think that’s okay because there’s like 5 oldschool female Linux admins in the world and they are chill as hell.

Globeparasite,

and reddit user

Aasikki,

And lemmy user for good measure

Globeparasite,

Naah, i don’t have the same soul shattering feeling every time i go on lemmy

Maeve,

No. It may feel good in the moment, but doesn't change anything. It just reinforces their belief that the world is out to get them and makes us hypocrites, or if done regularly enough, turns is into the beast we would destroy as e also feel bad about our behavior and ignore those feelings long enough (they're there for a reason). And sure, there will be momentary lapses and negative feelings we didn't know what to do with them. That's when it's time to face our shadows, again, and do the work. It took me a half a century to get there, but I've begun trying. I hope you will join me. It's an individual work, but we can support each other, if you're game.

uriel238,
@uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Sadly we love hierarchy dominance just about as much as we hate how much it makes us look like apes.

Teachers and school administrators almost always side with bullies. They can’t help themselves.

Maeve,

I know. My child had a terrible time* of it, during their school years. And I'm slowly* becoming more aware, because I've almost no filter and blurt out whatever crosses my mind. I'm addressing it, but reversion sneaks up on me. I just have to keep working at that, and way too often, missing what seems obvious to others or very belatedly.

*Yay autocorrect

Crikeste,

I call it an invisible caste system. There is so much perceived superiority over even the simplest of things.

Gradually_Adjusting,
@Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.ca avatar

What have you got against apes, ya damn dirty hominid?

Globeparasite,

they are not efficient enough in warfare

Gradually_Adjusting,
@Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.ca avatar

That’s actually fair

Persen,
jerrythegenius,
@jerrythegenius@lemmy.world avatar

Oo oo uh gnrshk

EmperorHenry,
@EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I’m autistic, but I can pick up on most sarcasm and most implicit statements

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar
Daxtron2,

congratulation

moitoi,

Autistic sarcasm is the best.

Daxtron2,

autism certified sarcasm :⁠^⁠)

SimplyATable,

Same here. It’s something that can be learned

scoobford,

I just never had issues with it in the first place.

Now, basically every other kind of nonverbal communication on the other hand…

DillyDaily,

It really depends on the way someone’s autism effects their social skills. Not everyone has the capacity to learn these skills, Autism does create a skill cap for many people.

It’s also a question of involved effort. I was in a form of ABA therapy as a kid and I was capable of learning to identify sarcasm and read social cues, so I did.

But it doesn’t come naturally to me, it requires a level of concentration and conscious processing that I don’t hear non-autistic people discussing. It causes headaches and migraines and after a few days of work, using these skills every minute of the day, I’m exhausted and struggle with basic tasks at home. I don’t have these same issues with exhaustion or conscious processing when I’m with other autistic people (I work in disability programming, I coordinate/admin 3 days a week with mostly neurotypical people, and run programs 1 day a week with mostly neurodivergent people, and there’s a big difference on how much “effort” it takes to understand people in those two environments)

Not saying it’s not worth learning. If you can learn these skills they are incredibly important and at the bare minimum they will keep you safe.

But as a society we need to accept that for a small subset of people with disabilities, these skills are unachievable, and reasonable accommodations will still need to be made, and for a slightly larger subset, accommodations may still need to be made on occasion because while someone may have these skills, they might not have the cognitive capacity to employ these skills 100% of the time.

intensely_human,

Autism does create a skill cap for many people

I’m sorry what? This is a new concept in neurology to me: a new type of nervous system that cannot learn beyond a certain point?

Every time I hear the current “wisdom” about autism, I thank god I wasn’t diagnosed until adulthood.

I told my dad I trained my cats to sit and wait quietly for dinner. He said “but you can’t train cats”. I said “You can train anything with a brain”.

Same way here, I am deeply skeptical of this “skill cap” concept you just mentioned. Is there any science on that?

DillyDaily,

I think the reason the idea of a “skill cap” feels instantly incorrect is because there is obviously no point at which any human “stops learning”. There will always be more to learn an more that someone (autistic or not) can learn.

The skill cap applies to specific metrics of measuring skill gain.

A large number of people with “level 3” autism who are non verbal will never learn to communicate verbally as fluently as non-autistic verbal people, even with decades of supportive education. But that doesn’t necessarily mean they have a “communication skill gap”, there’s a lot of communication skills that can and will be developed with the right support. But expecting someone in that situation to “try harder” and “learn to talk” is unrealistic, when the more achievable goal should be “learn to effectively communicate”.

webghost0101,

I also can pick up 100% of the sarcasm and implicit statements that i notice.

yarr,

That’s why we all think you are so smart

EmperorHenry,
@EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

well sometimes if you don’t know the person that well or if it’s a loaded issue they’re talking about, you just have to come out and say “I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic”

Azzu,

… He was implying that you may very likely have no idea that you’re missing implicit statements and sarcasm, because you’re, well, missing it.

The main meaning is still there and most of the time, nothing happens if you miss the implicit or sarcastic meaning, so it’s very likely you’ll never notice you missed it.

You actually have no real way of knowing if you are good or bad at picking up implicit/sarcastic meanings, because you would have to check each and every statement and depend on whoever you’re checking with to be truthful and/or good at picking up thesr statements as well. If you don’t do that and just go from your own experience, it’s actually impossible for you to tell how good you are.

It’s kind of funny that I have to explain this because this is a perfect example of you missing the implicit meaning, right within a discussion of the topic.

Persen,

Everyone does. We just don’t notice them. … Why the hell. Did I write this?

Sp00kyB00k,

Good on ya, I can’t and it really sucks.

intensely_human,

Do you sing? Do you listen to rap and watch standup comedy? These things helped me. Also, doing impressions.

13esq,

It’s almost like autism is a spectrum and it can go from hardly noticeable to so severe that you can’t survive without constant supervision and assistance.

lugal, (edited )

That’s the equivalent to the “colorblind” approach

Edit: since this is downvoted, I mean colorblind in a negative way. If you are “colorblind”, you’re basically ignoring racism which is better then being actively racist, but not anti racist either. You can’t act against racism if you don’t see it and you can’t reflect your internalized racists either. “I’m not a racist, I just don’t like the way you talk and act. Nothing to do with the color of your skin.”

intensely_human,

What you’re describing is something like “racism blindness”.

“Colorblind” means that you, yourself, don’t take a person’s race into account when judging them.

It does not mean you don’t see racism happening to them. That’s not what the blind part is being blind to.

lugal,

It’s not intentional for sure but that’s what happens effectively. That’s a critique from PoC.

And the analogy to the post is quite good, I think. If you don’t take race into account, do neither take into account what is socially associated with race. People intuitively like people more that are similar to them, that’s not necessarily optics but music taste, accent, shared experiences; all more or less directly linked to race.

intensely_human,

I think how much people favor people of their own races is probably a function of how safe they feel interacting with other races, which is itself a function of how dangerous a racial faux pas would be, which would be inversely proportional to how color-blind a society decided to be.

Increasing sensitivity to racial microaggressions and other involuntary grievances, and increasing the social costs associated with those things, increases the potential danger of an encounter with others of other races.

That’s my prediction at least. I’d love to see data to know whether it’s true.

If you work culturally and politically to make race a personal minefield, racial diversity becomes a threat. You multiply that natural human xenophobia into an inability to connect. You increase divides.

lugal,

If you want to educate yourself on the topic, I recommend the book “Why I’m no longer Talking to White People about Race”. It’s very insightful and not too long.

Wes_Dev,

… this just reignited my desire for a boyfriend, but like, one that’s also autistic, so he fucking gets me. We’ll have lunch in perfectly comfortable silence at a busy diner and judge people that talk too loud in public. It’ll be great!

Fosheze,

Maybe I’m autistic because that sounds fucking awesome. Fuck small talk. I just like existing by people I care about.

intensely_human,

Yeah fuck small talk, let’s throw shade at the people around us!

interrobang,

My wife is autistic, can confirm lots of happy, comfortable silence. We also have a collection of white sounds, and different rain sounds from around the world lol

webghost0101,

Some friendly advise. A neurodivergent partner can be great but you can never assume they will be similar to you in the same setting. Coping mechanisms can be opposites and what is comfortable for you may be stressful for them.

Me and my partner are both on the spectrum and i wouldn’t have it any other way but its common for at least one of us to deal with something at any given time (so there are few true breaks from stress) and at worst our challenges can amplify eachother.

In the end everyone is unique so maintain an open mind when dating and try not tp judge all neurotypicals the same way.

EtherWhack,
@EtherWhack@lemmy.world avatar

As someone with OCD but without ASD, I can understand a bit of this. But a helpful tip is not to bastardize something people are enjoying that you, yourself would have an issue with as a way to rationalize your dislike.

For instance… If you have an issue with a certain type of food, don’t make fun of it while people are eating it and they won’t feel attacked and respond in the like. (it’ll just become a tit-for-tat and devolve)

Instead of saying “Eww… I’m not eating mushrooms, they’re a fungus and they’re gross and they feed off rotten things.” Just give a bit of obfuscated truth and say something like, “No matter how many times I’ve tried, my mind just won’t let me do this or eat that.” No need to explain any further as many people can have issues with different things, so there’d be no need to give your diagnosis.

Wes_Dev,

ASD with contamination OCD here. I hate mushrooms, but strangely enough, love tempah. That’s basically soy curds glued together with edible mold.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Brains are weird.

Persen,

Well, then you shouldn’t eat any plants and after that anything else, because plants feed of rotten things (soil) and everything (including us) eats plants.

Leate_Wonceslace,

I recently had someone acting high and mighty with me pretending I was a bigot in literally every way to try to win an argument about joking about wealthy people being lizards. They rounded it off by saying I was using big words to bully her because she was a woman. I had no idea she was a woman, and frankly I don’t care because she’s clearly dishonest and ableist AF.

intensely_human,

She’s probably one of the rare un-wealthy lizard people. They get really sensitive when you talk about rich lizard people.

nadram,
@nadram@lemmy.world avatar

“Yall…”. Xitter holier than thou keyboard ninja. It’s wrong to mock people but OP must feel like a saint.

Maeve,

I use that word...

EndlessApollo, (edited )

It’s literally just a regular term to refer to a group of people, this has similar vibes to me as freaking out that your kids got a lesson on pronouns in English class

nadram,
@nadram@lemmy.world avatar

No, nothing wrong with the word y’all. It’s the generalization: “Everyone is bad, and i will set you straight”

EndlessApollo,

You’re reading a hell of a lot into it just that isn’t there imo. Why does seeing language associated with progressive people make you so mad?

hark,

Taking each of those symptoms in isolation, how would someone know that person is autistic? Pretty sure the sentiment behind the “I would never bully someone for being autistic” statement is that if they knew the behavior is caused by a condition then they wouldn’t bully that person. The difference being that it would then be assumed the behavior is due to something out of their control.

You could take the absolutist position of “don’t bully anyone for any reason” but how absolute is that position? Is it not okay to call a politician an idiot or an asshole for doing something you don’t like? What if they have a condition that makes them behave in a way that you call idiotic or assholeish? A child refusing to even try to eat something their parent worked so hard to make could be considered assholeish behavior, are we to assume it’s because they have autism and thus never call them out on it?

AnarchistArtificer,

The key word here is “bully”. It’s also a tricky word because the line where bullying starts is often blurry. There’s a context-dependent spectrum of gray that makes up the difference between bullying and calling someone out on assholeish behaviour. I think you’re right that absolutist poisons don’t work here.

My reading of the initial post was somewhat different than yours. I imagined the person saying “I would never bully someone for being autistic” as someone who believes themselves to be a Good Person™, despite engaging in bullying behaviours. My brain went there because I’ve known people like that. Maybe they would refrain from bullying someone who they knew as being autistic, but if they take that approach, they’re going to inadvertently bully a heckton of autistic people for their autistic traits, just because they don’t know they’re autistic. I don’t think that’s okay.

I interpreted the original post as advocating for being more tolerant regardless of labels or identities, because often, we don’t know the full context behind a behaviour. A complement to this is that being autistic doesn’t exempt you from being an asshole. I want to be called out for shitty behaviour, but I don’t want to be bullied.

I feel like I’m articulating my point badly, but something that’s underlying this entire comment is a book I read a while back named “Racism without racists”. It looks at racism as a product of the system, and how neutral or even good people can be a part of perpetuating it. Acknowledging this is a necessary and often uncomfortable step towards dismantling unjust systems and it doesn’t mean that people are Bad People™. When people feel attacked and perceive “the system that we are a part of and that some of us benefit from is structurally racist” as being an accusation of “you are racist”, it leads to them becoming defensive and refusing to acknowledge the address of the broken system.

I think ableism functions in a similar way. Society is ableist on so many levels, but I’ve found discussing this to be difficult when I have to walk on eggshells to avoid people becoming offended as if I have accused them of being ableist (even if I haven’t used that word at all and am focussing on constructive discussions about way forwards). It feels hypocritical when people consider themselves an ally, but then have the audacity to take a basic access request like “please don’t label the event as wheelchair accessible if it isn’t” and make it about them, becoming outraged. My take on the original post is that it’s directed at this kind of hypocrisy.

Murdoc,

FWIW I thought you articulated that quite well, it helped clarify some things for me. But I do understand your apprehension.

AnarchistArtificer,

Thanks, I appreciate it. I think perhaps that what I meant by that part was “Oh no, I have already written a lot and I still have more to say. Ah well — farewell brevity! I see now that you were never going to be a part of this runaway comment”

Murdoc,

I see, you weren’t being as concise as you’d hoped. I get that. I often make long posts too because of how often people misunderstand me I try to anticipate that and head them off in order to not have to get sidetracked re-explaining things. That’s me anyways.

inasaba,

A fellow long-winded mdash user fighting ableism? Keep doing the good work! :)

force, (edited )

Is it not okay to call a politician an idiot or an asshole for doing something you don’t like?

It’s pretty fair to call a powerful individual an asshole if they’re using the unequal power dynamic to fuck up peoples’ lives. It’s not even a comparison because you’re presenting a disability as an excuse to ignore “wrong” behaviour, rather than reconsidering what behaviour is “wrong” in the first place. And when you identify a “wrong” behaviour, consider why bullying would be the “moral” thing to do.

Sure, someone with severe NPD being narcissistic and always feeling like the victim is about as given as someone with a severe motor function deficit not being able to function at certain tasks, and you can get really philosophical about how humans are deterministic, fault doesn’t exist, and free will is an illusion, but… most people are obviously gonna feel a lot more lack of sympathy towards the person with NPD just on the basis of how intentional people feel it to be. People feel a lot more upset when they feel targetted by something. People are homophobic and bully people expressing “abnormal” characteristics because, to them, it’s an attack on their culture norms. People bully those with NPD because they see it as an attack on basic morality or as a danger to others. People bully boys who express certain “weak” emotions because it’s an attack on the traditional patriarchal idea of masculinity.

It is society’s job to make sure that people who do “wrong” get help to better themselves and society. Whether to think if insults or bullying will have do good in the context is hard to tell for yourself.

Personally, I will often insult someone on the alt-right. Not because I think they intentionally turned out that way, and not because I think they as a human being deserve suffering, but because I want to send a message that their beliefs are wrong and unwelcome. I want them to associate their beliefs with “fringe” and “unscientific” so they don’t feel comfortable spreading hate in public. Possibly it pushes those people to radicalize more, but it’s hard to argue that it isn’t effective at making most of them reluctant to spread conservative views in public and it makes quite a few of them eventually start to question their own views.

What if they have a condition that makes them behave in a way that you call idiotic or assholeish?

Insults are inherently irrational, using derogatory terms is never rational. There is no clear and objective way to determine if an insult is “justified”, because justification and logical thinking is subjective. When using insults, it’s important to consider the goal and results of the insult. Why are you calling a person an idiot? Is it because they’re acting in a way which you find “weird” or “annoying” or even “aggressive”, and you want to feel better about yourself or harm them emotionally?

In your example, the perspective is that a person holds power over others and is using it to cause harm in one way or another, and it’s felt that the person doing it is in control of their actions, so even knowing that an insult will bring no improvements they just feel an emotional pressure to vent.

That’s a scenario where it becomes obvious that justification is subjective and, even if it were reasonable to decide it’s unintentional, some people just feel helpless or angry and want to take out their frustration on the person they feel is doing the actions.

You use bullying when you want to achieve something. Self-satisfaction, emotional manipulation, emotional abuse, fitting in with others, whatever. Bullying is a tool to try to shift power, to bring someone else down, whether it’s to “level the playing field” more or to put someone below you.

So what goal do you have when you call someone who’s stimming or fidgeting or breaking down crying a derogatory name? What goal do you have when you call a child an asshole for refusing to eat a certain food? What goal do you have when you have when you call a politician an idiot?

Are you trying to emotionally abuse them into acting a certain way? Are you trying to gain self-satisfaction/relief and express your frustration at their cost? Are you trying to change other peoples’ perceptions of the person? Are you just trying to hurt / punish them with no end goal because you feel they deserve it since you got stressed by their behaviour?

It’s ignorant to for intent to be the default assumption. Always assume that someone could be different from you and that they may not be at fault for something you don’t like. Then consider things you wouldn’t do if they happened to have some sort of difference from you. That’s the basic idea of treating others with sensitivity. If you think a person has certain harmful beliefs or does certain harmful actions, would you treat them differently if they had ASD or dysthemia or NPD?

Treat anyone the same way you would treat them if they were neurodiverse. Your opinion of them shouldn’t generally change if you were to someday know that they had ASD or something. That’s an important way to stave off unjustified biases and treatments towards disadvantaged peoples.

A child refusing to even try to eat something their parent worked so hard to make could be considered assholeish behavior,

I mean if you’re down with blaming the children for being whatever you think of as misbehaved… I think “kids are assholes” is a funny phrase but unjokingly pinning the fault on the kid for their behaviour as if they choose to be reluctant to eat and calling them an asshole is a whole nother level of unempathetic. Kids are not rational and shouldn’t be bullied.

are we to assume it’s because they have autism and thus never call them out on it?

Generally if children (or pets) refuse to eat it’s because there’s something causing them to, maybe it’s stress or emotional trauma, or maybe it’s sensitivities caused by a disorder, or maybe it’s an underlying illness like ulcers or cancer, or maybe it’s because they have a certain biological reaction to the food, or maybe literally anything else. The mere idea of “calling out” a child in the first place is dumb, as if they’re to blame for what foods do or do not repulse them or what causes them stress.

What do you is be a good parent and support your child, helping them get through the obstacles they were given. Not get upset at them, subconsciously blame them, and then be surprised when that sort of attitude towards them emotionally pushes them away or traumatizes them. Which is a typical experience for people with Autism and ADHD because most people, and most parents, default to assigning fault to the person they associate with issues, and raise their child thinking of them as a burden.

This isn’t all to say I’m above all these heathens and I don’t make fun of people. But usually I try to treat everyone as if they’re potentially neurodivergent unless I have a reason not to. So when I do insult someone, whether or not they have Autism or Bipolar would not matter much to my insult.

Ableism is caused by not having a disability is treated as the default, like how white racism is white being treated as the default, and how homophobia is straightness being treated as the default, and …

LwL,

Imo it doesn’t matter much whether that behaviour is caused by some recognized condition or is just their personality. Someone could have texture related issues with eating certain food and not be autistic, doesn’t make them an asshole for not wanting to eat it (not to mention that almost no one likes all food). In the end we’re all mainly a product of our genetics and environment, and the specifics of what people should and shouldn’t be considered responsible for is a whole philosophical argument in itself.

You can criticize people for their behaviour regardless, as the other commenter said there’s a difference between criticism and bullying. And I don’t think “I’m autistic” is any better or worse a reason than “I just don’t like it” (using that loosely here, could include the whole range of extreme responses like vomiting). Because autism here in the end is just a label saying “congrats, you have a recognized reason to not like it”. There’s no way to know what precisely is going on in someone elses head regardless.

glassware,

This is why I can’t do online left wing spaces any more. They talk the talk about ableism, but then its “why can’t you boycott the only food you can eat, just eat something else”, “you could talk to service workers if you wanted to, you just think you’re better than them”.

Then sharing a video of people with their fingers in their ears at a black music festival with a caption calling them racists, when they’re clearly autistic people enjoying the festival but having sensory problems.

I blame the popular understanding/misunderstanding of neurodiversity. People think autism is just a personality type.

VinnyDaCat,

People are fake. A lot of online spaces outside of spots like Facebook (which is Gen X/boomer territory) are more so left leaning, so a lot of people tend to spout what they think is popular. Some might believe it but won’t put any efforts into practicing those beliefs, while others just simply don’t believe what they’re sharing.

Pride month is a good example of this. As soon as the months over most people who were spamming their socials with all sorts of LGBT support messages could care less.

SeducingCamel,

Idk what kind of left wing spaces yall find. Maybe if everyone didn’t think hexbear was the boogeyman they’d realize how accepting they are

nyctre, (edited )

Yep, super accepting, especially of Russian imperialism: “Instead of seeking peace our fascist government in Ukraine funds death squads in Russia to do terrorist attacks making the war worse”.

And Chinese killings: “The Tiananmen Square ‘Massacre’: The West’s Most Persuasive, Most Pervasive Lie.”

“As for the Uyghur thing, even western media has largely abandoned that point since it was too easy to see that no one was being killed”.

Those are just a few heavily upvoted comments that I found within 5 minutes of opening their page.

Maeve,

I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to subscribe to whole instances.

Leate_Wonceslace,

Hexbear isn’t a leftist space.

Zozano,

I would say they’re “alt-left” in the derogatory sense.

ArmokGoB,

They’re leftist by virtue of being tankies.

Leate_Wonceslace,

Tankies aren’t leftists; I’ve yet to read a coherent and useful way of defining “leftist” that includes tankies as well as other groups that identify as such. That is to say, if we allow for the existence of entities that are mistaken or lie about being leftist, we are forced to exclude tankies.

Kichae,

But their unity-through-force ideology, which is totally not just an excuse to be edgy and feel morally superior, but really and truly a coherent belief system, is definitely practical and pure, and not some slighly skewed picture of fascism with a handful of socialist buzzword decals slapped on top.

So, therefore, Left!

. . .

/s juuuuuuust in case

Leate_Wonceslace,

Well I can honestly say I can’t argue with that. 😂

John_McMurray,

Lol. Ok

Leate_Wonceslace,

I looked through your comments to understand why you reacted like that, and I realized you’re either wildly politically illiterate or you can’t do math. When your supporting argument for Wyoming being underrepresented is “they have 1 congress person” instead of an argument about the number per population it’s kinda hard to tell which it is. The talk about the state being “big” makes me suspect it’s the former, however.

John_McMurray,

How many more square miles do you want that one person to represent, Professor?

Leate_Wonceslace,

Take some number of citizens C.

If the population of the state is P, let the number of Representatives ® be P/C, rounded up [R=ceil(P/C)].

Note how land area is not a part of the formula.

If Texas were the size of Detroit while maintaining the total population size, would you argue in favor of reducing their representatives to 1 or even 0?

If the answer is yes, you need to take a civics class. Your question is like asking how much wax you need to make a crayon be blue; the hue of the crayon is entirely independent of the total amount of wax. Hopefully that’s an analogy you understand.

John_McMurray,

deleted_by_moderator

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  • glassware,

    Hexbear is better on this than most places to be honest. Surprising coming from a community that formed around Chapo, whose favourite insults are autistic and smooth brained.

    SeducingCamel,

    I definitely see why the politics scare people away but if you say a slur they’re gonna dogpile you which is nice considering how prevalent it is elsewhere

    intensely_human,

    For that kind of thing I blame the cultural fact that today’s leftism is based on finding people to hate.

    They pride themselves in not hating groups, but they do spend about 93% of their mental/social/political efforts in identifying people who need punishment.

    John_McMurray,

    Personality type that can hear the bubbles in a open soda can across the room making a fucking racket

    intensely_human,

    tink tink tink

    Socsa,

    Well, that and the weird obsession with autocracy because they can’t admit that their folk heroes might have actually just been assholes who did more to harm leftist movements than any western opposition ever did.

    SuddenDownpour,

    That, the other thing, and resorting to campism to immediately choose simple, identity-based positions over complex ones that are more coherent with specific ethical principles. At least there’s people who get everything right, even if they aren’t too many.

    Lhianna,

    And don’t you dare tell a vegan you can’t drink anything with plant milk!

    Zozano,

    Being unable to drink plant milk doesn’t make drinking cows milk okay.

    Just don’t drink cows milk? It isn’t essential for your diet anyway.

    John_McMurray,

    Drinking cow milk is ok. You not liking that dont change that, or that nw Europeans are literally evolved to drink it.

    Zozano,

    I wasn’t talking about diet. The problem is with ethics. No, it’s not okay, dickhead.

    John_McMurray,

    Yeah, it is. You’re literally whining about a food an ethnic group has literally adapted to, that comes from a selectively bred animal not found in the wild, and the reason that ethnic group survived.

    glassware,

    If your ethnic group only survived because they adapted to cannibalising their young during famines, would you eat babies

    intensely_human,

    I don’t know. I’ve never been in a famine.

    John_McMurray,

    Yours, sure.

    Zozano,

    Missing the point.

    The fact that the cows are being exploited at an industrial scale is abhorrent.

    Typical carnist dickhead trying to justify enslavement.

    John_McMurray, (edited )

    (looks at the dairy down the road) yeah, stfu, They’ve not a bad life compared to either not existing or dying in a hard winter. But rest assured. I am a carnist dickhead. If the winter gets rough I’ve no problem eating you, Grass fed tastes better anyways. The muscle fat ratio is similar to hogs. you’ll make good bacon. Ethical issues about these things are really in movies for effect, real life, no one cares that ain’t been pampered to a ridiculous degree all their lives. Ive not yet met one, vegan, farmer. you’re a city creature of flexible ethics that won’t look too closely into where the food comes from but will act superior.

    Zozano,

    They shouldn’t be enduring a hard winter because they shouldn’t be bred by people in the first place.

    Dairy cows get abused often on farms. You’re either not seeing news about it, or you’re willingly ignorant.

    You haven’t met a vegan farmer? Wow that’s so strange! I’ve never met an atheist Christian before, but I’m sure they’re out there.

    I am a city creature, but I’ve chosen not to participate in the exploitation of animals for ethical reasons, what’s wrong with that?

    Maeve,

    I drink it and%a lot of it, and it like it.

    Sombyr,

    There are quite a lot of days cows milk is literally the only source of calories that doesn’t make me vomit from the intensely unpleasant sensory experience all other food gives me. So no, I’m not going to stop drinking it.

    Lordbaum,

    It realy depends which places you are. I personaly really prefer Anarchist/Punk spaces. (I am obviously a Anarcho-(Solar)punk myself) and I have better experience there than else where. I still run sometimes in difficulties but most go quickly a way by explaining my position as an Aspie. And ask them to explain why they think this is true. Tbh I don’t know much how it is in auth left spaces (it is suposed to be worse not only for neurodivers people) but tankies can fuck of anyway.

    A_Very_Big_Fan, (edited )

    “you could talk to service workers if you wanted to, you just think you’re better than them”

    As a service worker, don’t talk to me any more than you have to

    (edit): Felt the need to elaborate on this. It’s not that I resent having to talk to you or anything, it’s that we’re human too and we’re prone to the same anxieties our customers are. Some of us are social butterflies, but for me it gets exhausting after a while, so it’s annoying when people talk to me about things that aren’t related to how I can help them. It’s hard enough for me to converse with people I’m actually friends with!

    There’s nothing you can throw at me that I won’t be able to help you with, so don’t be scared to come to me. But unless you’re telling me you like my hair or my outfit or something, I’d rather jump straight into helping you with what you need.

    Zehzin, (edited )
    @Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

    Good news, I don’t talk to anyone unless I have to.

    intensely_human,

    I’m the police and I say you have to

    VaultBoyNewVegas,

    I’ve ulcerative colitis and it’s flared up. Medical advice is no to low fibre, no veg unless it’s boiled soft like a mush, no garlic, no onions, no mushrooms, no red meat, no sweet corn. I can only eat white meat, fish, white rice, potatoes like mash, white breads like a loaf, bagels and brioche. I’m not being a picky eater, I literally can’t eat some things because they’ll fuck with my gut and make my disease worse. Fuck inconsiderate people.

    creamed_eels,

    That sounds tough. I once knew someone who had a medical issue with severe dietary restrictions like you, and a tone deaf coworker was like “haha at least you can lose weight, sounds great!” FFS

    VaultBoyNewVegas,

    Tell me about it. My flare up started months ago and I’ve dropped a clothing size. Everything I have is baggy on me now. It’s been so bad that I’m being put onto immune suppression medication in the hope I don’t have flares again. I also have autism traits like sensory issues and being unable to make eye contact as well as poor reading of social ques.

    Maeve,

    I've also had stomach issues that cause sudden, rapid weight loss, and it all started with some weird food poisoning, but that sounds horrific. I realize how fortunate I am, now, and wish you the best and speediest healing.

    intensely_human,

    Sounds like a state of permanent fight or flight causing chronic inflammation.

    My recommendation based on similar issues would be to expand your working memory so that the world is less overwhelming. This will reduce your level of danger preparedness which will reduce your inflammation.

    mbgid,

    I’m really sorry, I had colitis and it was awful. I really hope you find some relief from it.

    VaultBoyNewVegas,

    It’s getting better day by day and I’m going on a biologic which suppresses my immune system so hopefully with the new med I’ll rarely have flares again.

    intensely_human,

    I’m sure your immune system will react to being suppressed by leveling out and calming down. Not like it was designed by evolution as a threat-adaptive auto-scaling autonomous war machine or anything, so no worries about telling it to go to sleep. I’m glad your doctors are so wise in the ways of science.

    Sorry if that sounded sarcastic I just have very little faith in doctors. Are you at least talking to multiple MDs about your ulcerative colitis? Immune system suppression is truly a nuclear option here. What else have they tried?

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