I don’t actually mind the US protecting their economy from a predatory one that is more powerful - but I’d like USians to remember this when their politicians argue for war against 3rd world countries that want to protect their economies from the US.
I remember when trump was called out on his dumb little trade war (and rightfully so), but now that biden took the same trade war and escalated it, somehow it’s all good. Then these hypocrites wonder why people think both parties are the same.
It’s always fascinating to watch liberals attempting to distance themselves from their more overtly fascist cousins… yeah - totally nothing suspicious going on there.
No, you’re just scared to face the reality that you actually have no power in this country, and the both sides are in fact the same. One just says the N word.
I would vote for a presidency that is for free trade. Allow these companies to mature in the market. Though in this case the technology in US cars is extremely behind. I mean were only just getting LFP in cars, and while 800v that allows for super fast charging is markedly common over there, it is in only a few models here. I’m not getting why we’re putting these companies under tariff, legacy doesn’t have an EV industry with the capacity to scale affordable EV. A lack of innovation is also something to mention. It really shouldn’t be considered a good thing when a 10 year old EV like the Bolt is a best seller. I wish the US legacy auto EV industry would either build a very basic aerodynamic economy EV with no tech nonsense for under 25k with 250 miles minimum or just leave it to Tesla and Chinese OEM. I mean all of them have abandoned the sedan and economy car market… Why not let the Chinese have that market share if they can’t build something comparable just put tariffs on Chinese SUV and trucks which is a segment that legacy auto can’t stop building.
How about American workers learn to work for the same wages and working conditions.
If you want companies to pay a living wage with strong unions and safe working conditions, then competition with other places that don’t bother with those things becomes near impossible.
Agreed. This is something that is very much overlooked when people talk about how manufacturing in China works. The country is split into special economic zones that have different rules and laws that govern the regions. This allows them to uniquely exploit their labor markets to keep their costs as low as possible.
iPhones are built by FoxConn in their Shenzhen factories. See FoxConn Suicides for more.
GM who put out a faulty platform across several brands and gave data to insurers so premiums shot up? Or Ford who can’t build an EV below 50k and are allergic to building something that’s not the size of an armored military vehicle?
I was a victim of what I believe he’s talking about; the chip went haywire and took months to fix on my volt. It was a wide spread problem and they had a few of them in the dealership waiting on the part
This article is more about their battery problems than their software problems. It does however at least mention the stop sale order due to software glitches. Combine that with the battery problem and well… I’m hoping for a good 2024 but I’m not holding my breath.
And taxing Chinese EVs before they even come to market, but after they’ve proven themselves in Europe is just so obviously a protectionist move.
Well yeah. The companies are state subsidized and a good bit of the tech is stolen from electric car companies in other countries that actually have to pay for R&D.
US automakers have expressed that they are fine economically making expensive cars for rich people. of course that is after 80 years of lobbying to under cut public transit and trains.
They aren’t sweeping Chinese cars under the road here as much as they are sweeping an actually affordable, practical EV option that could easily win the mass market and shift the status quo away from ICE engine vehicles at scale.
Bigger problem is, that while blocking the Chinese options, they won’t give us a similar option at that same affordable cost.
Hopefully someone can tell me why this wont work, but what if they Chinese mfg did a Tesla and sold cars online and then shipped them over as “Sold” vehicles. I would do something like this out of spite, but if there are thousands of orders the cost of shipping can greatly be reduced over one or two “special orders” from China.
There are so many ways american regulatory committees could call foul on this that it just isn’t worth it.
It just wouldn’t be worth trouble and risk of delaying further the export of Chinese EVS.
New Chinese electric vehicles exceeding international safety standards are already less than half as expensive as new American electric vehicles anyway, so even with a 100% tariff on top and whatever other taxes and fees, they’ll still be cheaper than new American EVS.
Blatantly anti-competitive practices. We don’t have a free market in the US. Shit is expensive so the wealthy can continue to profit at record levels while citizens pay the price. Why try to compete when you can protect the wealthy and make your country suffer?
China doesn’t have the worker protections that the US has, the same level of gov’t support, nor the environmental rules that the US has. It’s only anti-competitive if there is a level playing field.
China doesn’t have the worker protections that the US has
Yeah weve got protections, like minimum off time for sleep…wait no. Maternity leave? Nah. Well our child workers get protected meal breaks at least. But not the adults. Water breaks or temperature limits? Still no. US doesnt have damn worker protections.
You got 3 downvotes and no replies, so I’m replying to let you know you’re speaking the truth. People are butthurt that the US isn’t as good as it could be.
Naw, it’s just both sides whatism bullshit. If anyone thinks as bad as things are in the US (and they are shitty), that workers are treated better in China, well they are higher than I am and don’t deserve a response.
Please show me where I said US was fantastic. Please. I would never say that. I don’t know what the fuck is wrong with people, but it has something to do with basic comprehension.
You said US workers have better working protections, someone disagreed with that, which you replied with a twisted interpretation that they said China is fantastic, which was replied with “wtf” and now this. It’s like some drug invested conversation where both sides make their own interpretation of what is said and continue to escalate.
I have no arguments on the topic itself, I’m just sick of the constant confrontational discussion with little or no meaning.
Its a combination of being unaware of how bad things are in the US, and having nothing but stereotypes to inform how you think Chinese labor is. Guess who has mandated maternity leave and who doesnt. Or paid sick leave. Or laws tying minimum wage to cost of living.
Guess who also has to put suicide nets in their factories due to the working conditions of employees who are forced to live on-site and spend their earnings in company stores.
Unpaid wages are a chronic problem in China. Migrant workers are rarely given formal employment contracts. China’s state-run labour unions (independent ones are banned) often side with management in disputes. So companies are under little pressure to pay workers in a timely manner. Sometimes, when business is bad, they refuse to pay them at all. Tensions typically come to a head in the period before the Spring Festival, when migrant workers scramble to get months of back pay before going home. source
Now talk about environmental issues and state market manipulation.
Jesus Christ. I feel like I’m back on reddit with a bunch of assholes. The original person was posting about tariffs being anti-free market. I made a post saying it’s not a fair comparison due to several issues. I never said the US was fantastic or some utopian paradise. Your reply is also an insincere comparison. Migrant workers in the US are often undocumented workers from a different country (Don’t try to say I’m excusing their treatment). The article I posted was about Chinese citizens being migrant workers in China. Even then, this dumb ass argument is a strawman to my original point. But for some reason, people on here have a weird hard on for China or the US. It’s fucking ridiculous.
I made a post saying it’s not a fair comparison due to several issues. I never said the US was fantastic or some utopian paradise. Your reply is also an insincere comparison.
Right, you’re arguing US and China labor protections arent comparable and Ive been making the case theyre very comparable.
My wife lives and works in China. She can afford to rent a place in a city on minimum wage with no issues, healthcare, even emergency healthcare is cheap and without lines, she has more sick time benefits than I do, workers democracy literally just got mandated for all private and public companies. Tell me how much better I have it making $60k a year and being unable to afford to rent an apartment or go to the doctor even with insurance?
And the government just realized this now and are going to make it clear it isn’t okay by fucking up any export out of China that has the word green in it.
Nothing to do with oil money folks, just China got caught red handed and we just weren’t looking before. Yes, you can still keep your iPhone but fuck your solar panels and any car that doesn’t crave gasoline.
China literally has 40 hour workweeks, triple overtime, mandated workers democracy, mandated sick leave, mandated vacation time… this isn’t the 80s man. In a lot of ways they’re ahead of my country as far as labor protections go. My wife works at IKEA and gets better sick leave time than I do at a multi billion dollar company in the west.
Because China would be wise to subsidize their auto industry to sell at a loss just long enough to kill the American & European auto industry forcing us to buy Chinese vehicles.
The CCP can artificially depress the value of their currency and subsidize their industries indefinitely. They are doing this on the backs of their workers, who should earn more for their labor. They are doing this because their own workers are too poor to provide sufficient domestic demand for their consumer goods, however, this strategy just makes their workers poorer, exacerbating the problem. Chinese exports should be used to make their economy self-sustaining, but they just perpetuate economic bubbles and malinvestment that cause economic stagnation. Neither domestic nor international commerce has never been free of interference or fair.
I don’t think whataboutism ever helps anything. American subsidies and bailouts has not resulted in better consumer choice. However, choosing options that are due to dumping isn’t going to produce sustainable industry either in China after the subsidies there end. The only real solution is to actually make practical electric vehicles at an affordable price.
I think he is stating that by subsidizing Chinese vehicles way below what could be practical to sell subsided non-Chinese vehicles at China can effectively kill off the non-Chinese automotive manufacturing capacity over enough time. Once this has been achieved China can increase prices drastically as Americans would no longer have domestic car options to buy, and creating a monopoly.
Its a worse alternative for the environment, we should both be investing in electric vehicles. Bullshit mindset when we could be having more affordable green technology and all people are thinking of is the economy. Fuck American auto sales, we dont need more gas guzzling SUVs in the world.
Honestly I’d that the lives saved from transitioning to EVs quicker is worth the trade. Eventually the car manufacturers will have to compete even if it means they stop making huge cars no one needs and start making smaller ones that travel further. I’m not going to pretend us manufacturers don’t abuse the fuck out of Mexico, India, and China when it comes to sourcing parts and labor, but the environment is a global win we desperately need.
Considering we’re deficit spending with every budget cycle, I’d say no we don’t have the money. Furthermore, what about all the other brands sold in the US besides the three American ones of GM, Ford, and Tesla?
How do they compete if the US subsidizes US companies and China subsidizes Chinese companies? Have you even thought through your proposal here? It certainly doesn’t sound like it. Waving your hand around and thinking money appears out of nowhere seems to be the limit of your analysis.
How do they compete if the US subsidizes US companies and China subsidizes Chinese companies?
Why would i care?
Waving your hand around and thinking money appears out of nowhere seems to be the limit of your analysis.
Are you imagining money just disappearing once its spent on subsidies? US has been spending hundreds of billions of dollars every year for decades on defense yet somehow we havent run out of money to spend. Learn how countries finance things.
Yes, why bother gaining some understanding of the topic you’re speaking about when you can instead remain ignorant and keep flapping your lips with poorly thought-out ideas?
Are you imagining money just disappearing once its spent on subsidies? US has been spending hundreds of billions of dollars every year for decades on defense yet somehow we havent run out of money to spend. Learn how countries finance things.
Are you imagining money just disappearing once its spent on subsidies?
When you spend your paycheck on bills does that money still remain in your account? The money doesn’t disappear but the person or government who originally had it, no longer has it. Are you proposing the government just start printing money to give hundreds of billions in subsidies to the auto industry? That surely won’t have any negative effects, right?
Great, that means you have unlimited funds to spend on new things, right? In fact, why are you even complaining about the cost of a new car? You can easily afford to buy a whole fleet since you’ll just get paid again in a month.
I didn’t say it was. Deficit spending to build a highway that winds up generating a bunch of extra revenue is one thing. Deficit spending to make a singular product cheaper than another country who is doing the same is a losing game.
Just like how people can no longer afford low end manufactured goods because China massively increased the prices once they took over that market, right?
It’s not the 80s any more. China has the largest middle class in the world, bigger than the population of most countries. 40% of the vehicles in service there are already electric. In the cities I visited it’s closer to 80%. Chinese shopping malls are filled with name brand western products and always busy. You’re either ignorant of the modern reality of China, or just a liar.
That’s true and all but this decision is solely about oil barons and their fat fucking profits.
Its no coincidence that they are going after electric cars and solar panels. Chinese workers have had it rough for 30 years but green tech is where we draw the line and not literally everything else, who believes this?
Its not to protect the economy, it’s not to protect the Chinese workers.
China did the same thing with solar panels a decade ago. It’s the reason why my wife’s employer shut down and hundreds of people lost their job. Having endless money to subsidize your product and sell it well below cost doesn’t lead to more competition or better options. It puts everyone out of business and creates a monopoly for the country doing the subsidies who then has no reason to keep the price low.
i wouldnt hate this so much if america produced quality automobiles. but we dont. so watch people pay double for something that will last twice as long.
even at equal pricing, they just push out better quality than we can seem to muster
Stupid if you don’t need one. Absolutely essential if you do. I am a car dealer and also do aircraft salvage, without a good truck the business is not possible.
True, but most of the people driving them absolutely do not need one, and that’s an intentional strategy pushed by car makers to work around emissions standards and because larger vehicles have a higher profit margin.
Chevy has notoriously weak body panels. The 3.6 they’re throwing in everything has issues with the cylinder deactivation system. The 4 bangers are made in Korea from Daewoo. They also have weird electrical issues, usually due to the 2 battery system. Certain ones shipped with features built in but not wired up and functional (heated seats). They have to retrofit newer models with features from older ones (heated wheel in the tahoes must be retrofitted from 21 or older models), no blind zone either on the tahoes which is strange for a new vehicle in it’s class.
Ford had engine fire recalls on most of their trucks and large SUVs. Transmission issues plagued Fords as well if you bought automatic like 90% of Americans. 1.0 EcoSport had a dogshit motor. The only two Ford products worth buying are a Mustang or a Ford Edge if you’re a mainstream consumer. I consider the raptor and enthusiast truck
Dodge/Chrysler has been consistent, but consistently mid. Transmission issues in all the trucks. Most of the SUVs like the compass and Cherokee run a fiat 4 cylinder. The 5.7 hemi gets only marginally better performance than the 3.6 pentastar. The 6.4 and 5.7 have lifter issues. The 3.6 had some minor misfire issues in the Pacificas. Some of the new jeep wranglers are a 2.0 turbo. It helps when you design the same vehicle since 2013.
Post COVID cars worth buying
Anything Toyota/Lexus if you want the best all around
Anything Mazda that’s naturally aspirated, or turbo if you care about your car maintenance.
Anything Hyundai/Kia that has a Korean motor (1.6t) and you maintain your car. The American made motors for Hyundai are terrible.
Altima and 4 cylinder rogue is fine. 6 cylinder maxima and Murano is fine. CVT isn’t as bad as it used to be. I don’t trust the 3 cylinder turbo.
Subaru is mid, the fa24 is good. The FB25 is mid and have issues after 100k if maintenance isn’t done and PCV isn’t maintained. The CVT is okay. The wrx 6 speed is mid. The STI is discountinued but had the best transmission. If you like expensive projects, go with any performance Subaru, and spend 3-4k on an STi drivetrain, it’ll bolt up 9 times out of 10
Honda 1.5t has head gasket issues. The 2.0 is great, but they’re not really using it much. The civic SI is mid and gets outperformaned by a Jetta.
Volkswagens are great if you maintain your car well. I have a controversial argument that the ea888 2.0t is the best all around 4 cylinder, even the k series.
Luxury brands like Audi, bmw, Mercedes and the such aren’t great for a mainstream consumer. Enthusiasts that do research will buy them anyway. For the average person, they’re too expensive to maintain, and the luxury features people seek can be attained in a Signature trim Mazda for a fraction of the price.
I’m autistic, I work around cars every day, and I really really like cars.
Man Chrysler products suck so bad! The only American brand next to Tesla would never buy. I’m a car dealer in FL and have seen it all, all vehicles have their problems, it mainly comes down to how they are treated and maintained. I’ve currently got a 2019 ford ranger with a good tune on it and have not had a single issue 65k miles down the road.
Ford owned a controlling share of Mazda during the L series design, it was developed together by ford and Mazda. It’s not just the heads, everything is different except the cylinder blocks lineage. No interchangeable parts.
Also I was talking post COVID cars, since that’s what time we’re in. 2020+ American cars are not as good as they used to be.
Sure Ford co developed the engine, and it wasn’t put in American Ford models outside of the focus until 5 years after it’s development. But a lot of the research and design was mazda
Outside of regular oil changes, I’d say spark plugs at 75-90k. I would flush coolant at 100k, then every 60k. Check your belts and hoses at 95-110k. Check your brake and fuel lines at 100k. Air filter every other oil change. If you ever take your intercooler off, check for oil blow by. A little bit won’t kill it. If at or under a quarter tank, don’t go full throttle to reduce strain on the fuel pump.
Transmission fluid flush at 90-100k with the filter. At 75k is when I would make it a habit to check oil every time at the gas pump if you think of it. Modern cars can burn oil per spec at higher mileages.
The turbo should be fine if you keep your oil and coolant maintained. If you just use it as a daily driver, you shouldn’t need to touch anything else until it breaks. An upgraded fuel pump can be insurance, but not necessary.
At higher mileages (120k+), you might start seeing signs of worn suspension and worn bushings. But if they aren’t wobbling and aren’t broken and you don’t mind the ride, it’ll be fine. But replacing bushings would make the ride good as new
Considering how many Boeing aircraft are out there operating every day and how very little we hear about issues I am not sure this is an effective example.
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