That may make sense if you’re on the surface of the moon, but that’s not the case. The moon time zone is for the moon orbiting space station proposed by NASA
Indeed, God help whoever NASA puts in charge of date and time conversion.
If we do a lot of space travel we’ll have to get used to this, though. And even worse, there’s no consistent way of defining a frame of reference not subject to gravity, so there’s a chance any standard one will fall into a black hole, which is funny because it’s a tangible thing destroying a concept.
So, I read something on this a little while ago. It has to do with the moon’s weaker gravity making time progress at a different rate, so the lunar time zone gives a precise reference for sub-second (nanosecond I guess?) precision manoeuvres and such like.
The time dilation on the surface of the moon would cause a clock to be 20 milliseconds ahead of a clock on earth after one year
it might be easier just to synchronize the space station clock with earth once a month, but I guess NASA would go for nanosecond precision if they could
Why switch? It’s not too complicated a concept for the average person to understand and deal with. In fact, it’s intuitive. Sure in software the logic has a few nuances that are a bit complex when needing to deal with local time and timezones, but that’s why we make the computers do the tricky work.
That’s all good info and explains some of the problems that could be resolved for us programmers if we were on UTC, but for the most part these are programmer problems and the computer handles it for everyone else. Additionally, it makes a few issues clear that won’t be resolved with a UTC switch.
First, as mentioned countries all over the world decide for themselves what timezone they’re going to follow. Even if countries were to switch to UTC, we know they all won’t do it nor at the same time, so programmers will have to deal with that added complexity too having some on UTC, some off, some switching on this date or that… if the movement got serious we’d have another Y2K frenzy, but not one that ended on a specific date… it’d linger for years as various countries came on-board. Additionally, we’d still have to deal with all the historical calendar, timezone and DST switches he mentioned. Those wouldn’t go away… in fact we’d be introducing a bunch of new ones.
Fact is timezones are understandable and work pretty good for normal people and their day-to-day tasks. Normal people aren’t going to want to understand UTC and then have to translate their normal day times to and from others around the world. No matter where you are I understand what you mean when you say your morning started at 6am or you eat at noon or you go to bed at 11pm or 23:00 for that matter. With UTC I don’t know what 23:00 means in Australia, Germany or India relative to your day… not only programmers but even normal people would have to know how to translate that to a time they can relate too, so you’d have to know timezones anyway. So while I’d know 23:00 was exactly the same point in time for each of us, I wouldn’t know how it relates to your day the way it relates to mine… is it morning, night, mid-day? It would actually make today’s programmers problems - which isn’t too common for most of us - a problem for everyone.
Personally, I think it’s just easier. Yes, computers and stuff, but we’ve perverted local time long ago with DST and country spanning single time zones, so might as well use one global zone and get rid of the confusion altogether.
In Europe we’ve been talking about ending DST for years now and it hinges on countries deciding which zone they want to adopt permanently. Why can’t they decide? Because the notion of getting up at six and having lunch at 12 is stronger than the cosmic fact of the sun being in the middle of the sky. We just need to decide how we want daylight to fit into that grind.
I say fuck that. If we can’t decide, don’t. Since we’re changing everything anyway, going to UTC will force everyone to think how THEY want to live their lives. When to open stores, whether to move opening hours in winter or summer, when to go to work (both early birds and night owls are great).
Plus in today’s globalized world, 14:00 will be 14:00 everywhere. You decide for yourself if you’re working then or not if somebody sends a meeting request halfway across the world.
Those that propose moving to UTC should take responsibility and take the +12h offset. Why should we let the brits enjoy +0 offset while the rest of the world got the short end of the stick (especially those living in the pacific)?
Obviously it would require some getting used to, but already people can’t comprehend time zones, so that won’t change. My grandma called in the middle of the night all throughout our three year stay in Australia.
People comprehend days, they comprehend that their day starts at 00:00 and ends at 23:59. Calling to the other side of the world isn’t something most people.do on a daily basis
Not even that. I’m sure you’ve heard “it’s tomorrow when I’ve slept”, no matter what the clock says. Switching terms at midnight will cause confusion more often than not.
Are you high or just not reading what you’re writing? Are you literally claiming that people will get confused when days start at 00:00 and end at 23:59, wherever they live in the world? Because literally no one in this world, except maybe you, is confused by that, because it makes intuitive sense.
It’s gonna get much worse when you start to try mapping days of the week onto the new times. Are days gonna be the same everywhere as well, to stay from 0 to 24? If so, have fun saying things like “Let’s find a time on Wednesday/Thursday”. People likely couldn’t be bothered and would probably just use the day that their normal wake-up time falls on to mean the full solar day instead. At which point you could also just say okay, weekdays are still following local solar days. But now what weekday is it halfway around the world? Now you need to look up their solar day.
All this to say - abolishing time zones will introduce the reverse problem for every problem that it seemingly solves. You can’t change the fact that our planet rotates and people in different locations will follow different schedules. Turning the lookup-table upside down is just a cosmetic change that doesn’t remove the situation that’s causing the confusion. I’d rather just stick with the set of problems that we’re already used to dealing with.
tldr - you’ll just have to do the conversions in your head now because it’s useful to know where the sun is at different points on the earth when trying to communicate across those points.
Which only works when timezones exist. Without timezones, the question would need to be “what time of day is it in <location>?”, and you’d get “morning” or “afternoon”. Any answer to that question is inherently more fuzzy than 8:25 or 17:16.
oh so now we’re right back around at time zones again, wonderful.
except now it’s even more fun because there is zero standardization at all, but users are still going to expect for their computing devices to tell them a time that makes sense. Ah, but culture X thinks the day starts “6 hours before sunrise” and culture Y is more “the day starts when the sun is halfway between sunset and sunrise” and culture Z thinks something even more insane. Oops, now we’ve got locale-based time zones. Locale awareness is honestly even worse than time zones because its just so damn unexpected at times. My own computer has a horrifying mix of US and Europe locale settings, and that is already crazy enough.
stupid people will always think everything is just so simple.
oh so now we’re right back around at time zones again, wonderful.
Pretty much. Shows how it wouldn’t actually help a lot. It’s making one thing simpler while making other things more complex. It’s interesting to think about new problems it would bring and how would they be dealt with. And how much worse the solutions would be than the current problems.
Maybe this freak should just text uncle steve whatever he wanted, or a “call me when it’s convinient” message, and then steve will probably see the notification at some point in his morning routine before too long. If this guy really needed to call steve anyways, for whatever reason, he shouldn’t care about time zones, because it’s an emergency.
If you were commonly calling whatever place you were calling, you’d probably be able to intuit what time they woke up anyways, so it’s all moot.
I dunno. I think it’s pretty easy to make a big deal out of time zones and calendar measurements and whatever but I don’t think it really, actually matters that much, because the main thing they facilitate is communication. Time zones and timelines should be engineered more around the human condition, I think, than around anything else.
But then, I think, to construct anything around the human condition is kind of paradoxical. If you create a schedule, then you have created a schedule. I.e. if you construct time, then you imply the existence of something that needs to be measured. That implies deadlines.
Frankly, that’s too much pressure for me, so I’m going to take the more controversial stance here: Abolish time. No more time, no more numbers measuring when I should do what. You’re either gonna tell me whether or not to do something now, or to do it later. The people gotta learn that time is more subjective and contingent, and they gotta start showing up to their work shifts whenever they want to make money, instead of just showing up at a given time when the fuckin steam whistle goes off like it’s the 1800s.
Because it makes getting an intuitive sense of what solar time it is somewhere harder.
Can I call my grandma in a different country? Hmm what time is average midnight there. Okay 8 (so far, same thing as looking up a timezone), and it’s 18:00 now, so 10 hours after midnight, which is like my 23:00. Needlessly complicated with extra steps for the average person.
Sure, you can say, I’ll call you X and that will mean the same thing everywhere, but does not have any information about solar time. And these days, it’s automatically converted if you use a calendar (which you should). This is the point of programming, to make the USERS life easier, not the dev. The end is more important than the means, I think we can agree.
Or: what time is it where my grandma is? Okay, cool, I have a sense of what that is immediately after knowing the answer.
There are reasons we do things this way. Working roughly to solar times has more benefits than being able to say a time and it mean the same moment everywhere.
I say we leave things the way they are, works okay.
Which I think we can all agree is more work than what we currently need to.
It’s not just one addition, it’s 2 operations following knowing what time midnight is to understand what the solar time it is: what time is it now, minus what time is their midnight, and then you have to add that back to what your midnight is to get a sense of the time. Or you just start thinking in solar time WHICH IS WHAT WE ALREADY DO.
That’s 2 calculations. Currently we do 0.
Innately knowing what time means in films, talking to people over the phone, going to a new country. It would be a huge pain in the arse.
"They met up at 13:00“ great. So where are they in this film? Forcing exposition where currently you might let it be vague.
People who advocate for one timezone simply haven’t thought it through.
Pretty much every electronic thing you own that resembles a computer (phones, tablets, laptops, desktops, even your damned TV) uses UTC. Every. Single. One. Translates that time to “local” whenever it needs to.
So when your TV goes from 9:32 to 9:33, is just showing the converted time from UTC each time.
Almost every device on the planet is keeping time in UTC.
Just because you don’t see UTC time on your device, doesn’t mean that’s not what’s happening. I had an issue where I needed to get into my computer’s bios for something, as soon as the BIOS loaded and showed the time, it was “wrong” because it was in UTC. I’m sure plenty of newer BIOS dialogs are configured to account for timezones now, so yeah. I might be unique in this. It’s still there.
Almost all computers count time as seconds from the epoch (midnight 1/1/1970). That then gets converted into a readable time, which may go through UTC to be converted first, but that’s not how it’s storing it.
You’re referring to UNIX time. And you’re correct.
It’s a count of how many seconds from midnight, January first, 1970, UTC.
Local computers update that time, still in UTC, from time servers, usually over NTP, then translate that time reading from UNIX time in UTC, to a human readable format in the local time zone.
All computers are still keeping track of time from Epoch in UTC.
Unix time is far less universal in computing than you might hope. A few exceptions I’m aware of:
Most real-time clock hardware stores datetime as separate binary-coded decimal fields representing months, days, hours, minutes, and seconds as one byte each, and often the year too (resulting in a year 2100 limit).
Python’s datetime, WIN32’s SYSTEMTIME, Java’s LocalDateTime, and MySQL’s DATETIME similarly have separate attributes for year, month, day, etc.
NTFS stores a 64-bit number representing time elapsed since the year 1601 in 100-nanosecond resolution for things like file creation time.
NTP uses an epoch of midnight 1900-01-01 with unsigned seconds elapsed and an unusual base-2 fractional part
GPS uses an epoch of midnight 1980-01-06 with a week number and time within the week as separate values.
Converting between time formats is a common source of bugs and each one will overflow in different ways. A time value might overflow in the year 2036, 2038, 2070, 2100, 2156, or 9999.
Also, Unix time is often managed with a separate nanoseconds component for increased resolution. Like in C struct timespec, modern *nix filesystems like ext4/xfs/btrfs/zfs, etc.
Honestly quote irrelevant. It’s hidden away. It’s not shown to us. It could use literally any frame of reference, like farts since the beginning of times, if it’s converted for you, then it’s not.
If you’re setting moon time to the day/night cycle of the moon, yeah, it would actually have a much longer day, from what I understand.
I might be wrong, but to my best understanding, the moon is tidally locked to the earth, meaning the same side of the moon is always facing the surface of our planet. Which means the rotation of the moon, and the length of a day on the moon would be tied to how fast it orbits the earth.
You can tell the duration of an orbit by simply following the moon cycle (“new” moon (midnight) through “full” moon (noon) and back to a “new” moon. Based on this, unless I’ve made a serious error in my logic, a moon day would be something like 20-30 earth days.
If I Google it, the moon orbits earth approximately every 27.3 days. Which is about 665h 12m… Give or take a few hours.
Our entire concept of time, days, months, and years, breaks on the moon. On earth, an hour is 1/24th of a rotation of the planet. A day is one full day/night cycle, a year is one orbit around the sun.
When you transpose this principle to the moon, am hour is 1/24th of a rotation of the moon, which happens to be 1/24th of a year, which is one orbital rotation around the earth. So one day = one year on the moon.
So how do we measure time on the moon in a way that isn’t completely insane? The only logical thing I can think of is to fundamentally lock the time zone of the moon to the earth. That the date, and maybe even the time, isn’t based on the moon, but rather transposed from some definition of the same on earth.
This also leads me into a rant/discussion about time in SciFi. Once you leave the orbit and reference point of Earth, what is a day? An hour? A year? You have no point of reference to base such notions of time. Why is there a “night shift” in programs like Star Trek? Why is there really only one captain? Why does everything on these shows seem to occur during their idea of “daytime”?
Then there negotiating with some alien race and say they’ll reconvene tomorrow about something… Tomorrow, based on what? You’re in space. It makes sense if they’re in orbit of a planet, but then you get to see standoffs in the middle of fucking nothing, and they’re like “you have 24 hours to decide”. Okay. 24 hours based on what exactly?
I appreciated MiB’s take on this in the film. They defined not only how much time they had to return the galaxy, but in what format the time was being counted in. Which they could calculate and adjust to earth time.
This all sets aside relativity, since when you’re moving near, at, or beyond the speed of light, you experience time differently (see: interstellar), also gravity can affect this, and other factors. But somehow, they just side-shuffle from the whole time thing and just focus on the drama of it all. Viewers are too enthralled with the spectacle, not realizing that these Romans or boleans, or Klingons, or cardassians, or whatever, probably have a completely different idea of how much time their version of “one hour” or “one day” is.
It’s fascinating and frustrating.
I love it and hate it all at the same time.
Time sucks. It’s never correct, often ignored, and bluntly, a strange concept that isn’t, IMO, well defined. We have the idea pretty well set up here on earth, based entirely on things happening on and to this planet, but if you take that reference point away, everything collapses.
as soon as the BIOS loaded and showed the time, it was “wrong” because it was in UTC
Because you don’t use Windows. Windows by default stores local time, not UTC, to the RTC. This behavior can be overriden with a registry tweak. Some Linux distro installer disks (at least Ubuntu and Fedora, maybe others) will try to detect if your system has an existing Windows install and mimicks this behavior if one exists (equivalent to timedatectl set-local-rtc 1) and otherwise defaults to storing UTC, which is the more sane choice.
Storing localtime on a computer that has more than one bootable OS becomes a particularly noticable problem in regions that observe DST, because each OS will try to change the RTC by one hour on its first boot after the time change.
That’s strange. As far as I can tell from any web searches, every version Windows still defaults to storing local time to the hardware clock and there are no reports of that changing with an update, nor is there any exposed setting control to configure this behavior outside of regedit. If you’re curious enough, you can check the current setting in the registry at HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESYSTEMCurrentControlSetControlTimeZoneInformation. Windows maintains the current time as UTC if and only if the RealTimeIsUniversal key is present and nonzero.
I expect it’s more likely some other issue would make the BIOS display an hour that’s inconsistent with your local timezone. For example, maybe a bug in the BIOS, maybe a timezone offset setting within the BIOS, or maybe a dead clock battery.
I’m not a typical example. I can check that reg setting later. My PC is a Dell precision 7910 rack that I picked up second hand, running Windows 10 Pro that I self installed.
It’s joined to my homelab active directory domain which has a gpo for setting NTP. I don’t believe I’ve set any additional settings for time via policy.
The system is also set up for virtualization. I’m pretty sure hyper-V is installed and I have VMware workstation installed as well (I mainly use workstation for VMs).
The main disappointment I have with this system is split between the limited GPU space and the BIOS, neither of which I can do much about. The GPU issue is that the rack orientation of the system doesn’t allow much room for a GPU to breathe so even a “good” GPU can’t really get airflow, unless it’s a blower style; I don’t have the money to be picky about my GPU and I was donated an RTX 2080 Ti founders edition, which is definitely not a blower style cooler. Without hardware hacking the system, the card thermal throttles very quickly and doesn’t get very good performance numbers. IIRC it was measuring around the same performance of a GTX 1060 or so. I moved the GPU out of the case temporarily using a PCIe riser which solved the immediate concern, and I’ll be doing some minor modifications to the chassis to make it a more permanent option.
The BIOS issues are mainly that the tuning options either don’t exist or are extremely limited. The BIOS will tell you about the CPU/RAM speeds and features, but won’t necessarily give you options to change anything. I want to adjust my numa configuration on the unit, to better match the hardware so my os makes better threading decisions, but such options are unavailable through the normal means and I haven’t dug into the Dell command line tools for the BMC/IPMI which may be able to adjust the settings. For anyone familiar with numa, what I’m seeing is that my first, say 80% of CPUs are all in one numa node, and the last eight are split. As in, the first 80%+ are in both, the next 4 cores are in numa 0 and the last 4 are in numa 1. I have 2x14 core xeon CPUs with HT, so having 20+ pCores in both numa nodes is creating some interesting stuttering issues. They’re not super frequent, but they happen when the system is busy.
To my recollection, I have not run any of the windows 10 cleanup scripts available around the internet, mainly because I’m a tech and I don’t like not knowing what’s happening/changing on my own system, though I did make a string of changes when I first installed Windows 10 related to optimizing for SSDs and other performance improvements. All performance based, nothing to do with the time.
Beyond that, it’s a pretty typical Windows 10 professional install running on workstation hardware.
The proposed time zone is to drift about 1 second every 50 years. I also suspect it wouldn’t really be a time zone in the same sense as the time zones we know - it would just be a standardised calibration reference. Dates and times expressed in “moon time” would probably just be some leap second off of a known Earth time zone, and because it’s mere seconds over centuries, I think the only use of this time zone is to calculate ultra-precise time diffs between two earth datetimes when the observer is on the moon. At least, that’s how I interpret the articles I can find about it.
It’s also important for things like GPS, as related to other planets, as well as orbital maneuvering.
What they’re actually being told to build is “write down the rules for moon time”, which is basically what you said but defined in terms of “this much faster than earth time”, and a system doing the same thing on other planets or places in the solar system.
So it’s less a timezone and more a time system, and instructions for how you calibrate your atomic clock on the moon and reconcile the difference with terrestrial clocks.
Serious question…why would an entirely isolated GPS constellation need to have “a time zone” as opposed to it’s own epoch (like unix)? It’s on the receiver side that all the computation happens, aren’t the satellites essentially just announcing an agreed-upon time? Wouldn’t the client be able to do it’s own comparison of “it’s time”, as long as it’s source of time is also synchronized with the constellation?
I believe, and we’re at the edge of my understanding here, that the satellites need a consistent adjustment for local relativity. Because the satellites also have their clocks tick differently.
So they define a new time standard for the moon so that lunar operations can function based on that time standard, rather than having to recalculate relative to earth.
That’s the paper from NIST that’s basically the timezone part of it all.
They’re basically defining how to calibrate moon clocks so we all agree exactly how they differ from earth clocks.
All we need is a single universal Space-Time map that will tell the time (in any and all formats) at any point in space, taking into consideration, all the events caused by all the forces that cause existence, from the start of this universe. Then it can take the place of both, maps and clocks.
Just make sure it is memory safe. Oh and properly escape all queries. And also …
That should last us until we start exploring the space outside the universe.
i still think timezones were a mistake, and that they shouldn’t exist period. I have a long thread about this from an earlier post about timezones as well amusingly enough.
it’s the less arbitrary version of having timezones, the only difference is that the time doesn’t change, because it doesn’t it’s the solar time that changes.
damn, if only there was like, this thing, that tracked time. And it was like, relative to the solar time that we experience here on earth, but like, not explicitly that solar time, so you could just like, offset it slightly, to get the correct local solar time.
Man, what a difficult and challenging issue to solve.
they’re used less frequently than timezones are now. Because the offsets only purpose is to show to explicit time of the local solar time, anywhere in the world. relative to your local solar time (which is not very useful.)
Your proposal is exactly how time is used at my work. All meetings are in GMT. You use the timezone time when thinking locally. Instead of everyone using GMT and timezones already, why should we introduce a while new concept?
We are using GMT + timezones. You are the one who opposed timezones and said you have a different approach. But yours is exactly like timezones. My question is that why should anyone switch to something “like” timezones when there are actual timezones?
It’s not better because your offset time is much granuler and hard to calculate in your mind than timezones. And it doesn’t offer anything new over timezones. Since you suggested it, you must see a benefit. What is it?
what the fuck do you think timezones currently do?
Are they just arbitrarily stuck to “maybe sometime close to local solar time”
It could literally be equally as granular as existing timezones. You could just remap timezones to the offsets directly, hell even less granular because who cares. Just delete the half hour offsets.
it’s not adding anything new, that’s not the point, in fact it’s impossible to add something “new” to the concept of time, we’ve already defined it. It’s an improved variant of timezones, where coordination is immediately more accessible, and less involved. It’s explicitly less arbitrarily defined than the current timezones that we have no, because most of the time, you just wouldn’t use them.
It really seems like you’re just describing time zones. Or do you mean that we should be even more granular about it and have personal timezones that adjust depending on where we are on the globe? That just seems like timezones with extra steps
This is the same fucking thing. It is simultaneously 12:25am MDT and 6:25am GMT where I live. If you ask my computer what time it is, it knows it is 06:25:00-06:00.
I think they’re proposing personal time zones, where every individual’s clock shows their precise solar time, and nobody ever manages to be on time to work ever again.
close, there’s a regional local solar time (you could just steal timezones for this one) and then there is global time, which is what we go by for everything. Local solar time is essentially just an offset to the global time for the relative nature of local time to global time.
i like how whenever i mention this, people seem to think i want to get rid of time instead of timezones
What you’re describing is LITERALLY the system we have. UTC is a global, coordinated time that tracks solar time to a precision of less than a second. As far as my computer is concerned, my time is UTC (technically GMT, but they both refer to the same time) minus 6 hours. We all could choose to say, “hey, wanna meet for dinner at 3AM?” and have that be a normal thing to say in my area, and an odd thing to say odd in Europe… but nobody wants that.
Good god, imagine 360 timezones to describe each longitude.
Each timezone would be 4 minutes, and span roughly 56 miles (tho, that’s different as you get nearer the poles).
For the majority of things, it would be fine. Most appointments etc that are “booked” verbally would likely be within 56 miles, where “casual” time would work. Anything beyond that feels like a “significant” thing, which would probably involve written/digital communication - where computers could pick up the slack for translation.
And EVERYONE would be aware of timezones. So, even Microsoft/Excel would have to recognise that timezones are a real thing.
I’m imagining something more fluid, where the time it is depends on exactly where you’re standing and the position of the sun in relation to it. You’d need to factor the direction you’re traveling as well as the distance whenever you went anywhere. We’d have a lot more intimate relationship with our current celestial situation.
At this point, I don’t know if you are trolling or not. You keep saying that this is nothing like timezones, while describing something that really looks like timezones to anyone else reading it.
Do you suggest we all use one unique time, regardless of local solar time? Or do you suggest we all use our own local solar time, based on each person’s exact longitude on the globe, regardless of borders and current timezones ?
it depends on how it’s implemented, but essentially, we do away with our current concept of timezones, and then use UTC or something, for example. But we reimplement the timezone maps for our local solar time offsets. So that way we still have a consistent system. Just without timezones.
Are you thinking about daylight savings time? I’d agree there, but timezones absolutely make sense, and we’ve always used some version of it. “See you at noon” has a sort of built in timezone, as does sunrise and sunset. We (all human societies) relate hours to the day in a similar, albeit more regular way. If you did away with timezones, you’d replace a minor inconvenience with a monstrous one. Everyone uses what, GMT? Naah
DST definitely isn’t helping, but in my experience, DST only makes this stuff more arbitrary, between the winter and the summer here where i live, the sunset can vary up to about 4 hours based on season. Time is entirely arbitrary in relation to the sun to begin with. It’s a lived experience that many of us have.
And while we do use things like morning, noon, afternoon, evening, night, and midnight. Those are all relative to the local solar time, not the actual time. Sure noon being at 12 is kind of nice i guess. But noon is noon, the time on the clock doesn’t change that.
Nobody likes missing a train.
In this scenario, missing a train is caused by timezones.
It’s sarcasm. So against timezones.
Maybe, against more granular timezones, ok with status-quo, but would be happy if all official correspondence happened with UTC.
Possibly completely against timezones.
Maybe a mix of all of the above
Imagine you’re watching a movie, and the main character turns over to their bedside clock and it shows 4:13 am. With time zones we all understand what part of the day that is and instinctively can relate to the situation.
Without timezones, every locality would have a different shorthand and cultural understanding of what times mean what. Or they’d adopt a second system that helps transcend that but that’s just inventing timezones again…
actually, this is pretty funny. This is the ONE instance so far, that i’ve found where timezones actually do something productive, and it’s in a movie.
Too bad movies never use shit like ambient moon lighting, or darkness. It’s not like those convey what time of night it is or anything. I mean seriously, if you’re bound to showing a clock to display the time, rather than make a point, you’re not a very good writer.
Too bad movies never use shit like ambient moon lighting, or darkness
Probably because people’s beds tend to be inside… Plus darkness can mean morning or evening or middle of the night or something else (imagine the person notices it’s dark, looks at the clock and it shows 1pm. We know something’s off because we all experience 1pm as early afternoon).
The point isn’t that timezones are only good for movies, the point was that they help convey that cultural understanding very effectively across the world. Having a common understanding of what certain numbers on a clock mean and have that be universal can help convey quite a bit of information. 11am means “late morning” in a specific way that you could probably spend a paragraph describing.
Sure, without timezones I’d know what their clock says in London without having to use Google, but I’d still have to Google what time of day it is there and apply an offset to understand exactly what part of the day it is (which is what timezones do already). It’s no easier, plus we lose the ability to culturally share the same reference points.
Probably because people’s beds tend to be inside… Plus darkness can mean morning or evening or middle of the night or something else (imagine the person notices it’s dark, looks at the clock and it shows 1pm. We know something’s off because we all experience 1pm as early afternoon).
too bad windows don’t exist, it’s also not like movies ever fudge lighting to make it look better.
Having a common understanding of what certain numbers on a clock mean and have that be universal can help convey quite a bit of information. 11am means “late morning” in a specific way that you could probably spend a paragraph describing.
or you could just say “late morning” after taking a page out of your book.
Sure, without timezones I’d know what their clock says in London without having to use Google, but I’d still have to Google what time of day it is there and apply an offset to understand exactly what part of the day it is (which is what timezones do already). It’s no easier, plus we lose the ability to culturally share the same reference points.
here’s the thing though, you wouldn’t need to do that second part. You only need to know what the relative time for london is in the event that you fly over there, or something, and even then. It’s still going to be real time, you would just naturally transition over to it. You have no reason to know what time some place else is referenced to, unless you’re over there, except for the rare instance where it’s convenient.
here’s the thing though, you wouldn’t need to do that second part. You only need to know what the relative time for london is in the event that you fly over there, or something, and even then
What? Sorry, I must be misunderstanding your viewpoint here. People interact all across the globe all of the time; it’s important to know what part of day it is in the different places for all of that. You want to call someone in Singapore? It doesn’t help to know their clock shows the same time as you, you need to know if it’s the middle of the night, or maybe it’s likely lunch time etc. That’s why you need to know the offset from “your” time.
And you glossed over everything else… I’m not talking about movies for no reason. Movies tend to need to convey lots of information in a short amount of time so it’s a useful example of the differring amounts of information that can be communicated when we all share cultural understandings of things. If 3am means essentially the same thing everywhere that’s super useful in communicating all sorts of ideas.
What? Sorry, I must be misunderstanding your viewpoint here. People interact all across the globe all of the time; it’s important to know what part of day it is in the different places for all of that.
no, it’s not, it’s important to know what time other people are available at Regardless of what you’re doing, you’re going to plan it to the hour specifically, due to the fact that it’s a meeting, you’re going to agree independently, on a shared time, between the two of you. It doesn’t matter what your or their local time is, because you agree on it, and can simply figure it out yourself, if you REALLY needed to, like i said, you could just look it up, and now instead of it actually changing the time, it just shifts it, given that they’re halfway across the globe, and the sun normally does that.
Maybe it’s lunch time, ask them when they have lunch. They’ll tell you, and it’ll map directly to your time. It’s INCREDIBLY explicit, compared to our current solution. You shouldn’t be planning things based on what the timezones say, you should be planning things based on what the time says.
I’m not sure i can think of a single instance, where it would be important to know what point the sun is in the sky at, in fucking mongolia, while i’m in the US or some place. It already means nothing to me, even if they were to tell me, because i don’t know what their timezone is, and if i do know, now i’m just hoping that they have exactly the same schedule as me, with no deviations, which, you know is, very reliable. Maybe you work in a global office, where this would be a thing, but then again, it’s literally the same amount if not less effort than just using timezones like you would normally do. And like i said, it doesn’t remove the local solar time, that’s what “timeoffsets” would be for, so if you REALLY cared about it for some reason, you could just look it up with the same amount of effort as timezones now.
The ONLY difference is that instead of the sun being in the middle of the sky at noon where you are, and noon where they are, it’s noon here, and there at the same time, and the sun is in the peak at 12 00 here, and 14 00 there. For instance. I genuinely just can’t think of any significant events where i would be globally contacting someone, in regards to their specific local solar time, in reference to my own, in significant enough capacity, where having to add or subtract a number would make it harder.
Timezones are arguably inherently more confusing, because if it’s +2 here, and it’s +5 there, then that means they’re 3 hours ahead, so if it’s 12 00 here, it would be 15 00 there. Which is significantly more effort. As opposed to, “i’m 3 hours ahead of you, and we use global time so just add 3 to your number, and that’s my schedule now” it just removes one variable from the equation.
and regardless of that, you act like morning, noon, afternoon, evening, night, midnight, and after midnight, don’t exist. If you’re communicating local solar time in passing, you’re likely using those anyway. They’re fuzzy terms, they’re perfect for it. And if not, you probably should be anyway.
I reluctantly agree with you. Though I think the reluctance is just because there’s something in me that’s viscerally offended by the concept of time itself (probably the ADHD)
You’d think so, but the problem is that because of gravity, clocks on earth and on the moon will run out of sync. Idk ask Einstein.
Yeah I’m aware. It would require ongoing recalibrations of the time display units on the Moon.
Then again if they could just pick up the atomic clock signal (WWV, etc.) from Earth, and then add to it for the time it takes for the signal to cross space from the Earth to the Moon, etc.
At the end of the day it’s just about having all the homo-sapiens going to bed and waking up at the same time, so they can do business in the same window together.
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