I love the idea (OK not really, it is cruel) that people that do not have an internal monologue are in fact NPCs... 🙂
I have an internal monologue, but also have other mental processes - seeing (computer) code in my head in, sort of, multiple layers, and debugging code in my sleep. My monologue comes in writing and reading, and planning what I will say/type, but I also am able to come up with ideas out of thin air without "wording" them through in my head.
@revk I do not have any internal monologue at all, I seem to be able to take concepts from my head as representations and make them appear as code (poor description, but it’ll do) when I’m wearing my software engineering hat.
I also found out a while ago that I’m also aphantasic; I do not have a minds eye. if asked to visualise something I instead draw on an internal concept of the thing and am aware of its whole, but only a set of objects and attributes (sun: hot, mostly white/yellow),
@revk Voted yes (my voice) but in truth it's complicated.
As I write this my voice dictates (as a sanity check) but I don't go back and read to verify very often.
When I'm writing code it depends when I learned the language, and how fluent I am.
Writing IBM mainframe assembly
LA R1,THING is "load address of THING".
LA R1,0 is "ell ay one wi' zero" (a special case of Load Address) but when it was my first language the code flew out with only sparse commentary such as "R1 is loop counter".
@rachel@revk I've seriously confused psychologists trying to give me CBT for social anxiety/depression; they want me to identify thoughts but I just don't have them, especially not for anxiety, just feelings! Sometimes entire concepts/ideas appear in my head without internal monologue, it's odd
Just to add, my internal monologue is around thinking of natural language text - reading, writing, typing, planning what I will say or type.
When considering computer code I absolutely do not have an internal monologue over what I am typing or reading or planning. It is perhaps a bit visual, but not even sure that is the case.
So I have an understanding what "not having an internal monologue means" in that context. I did not realise that until now. I would never think "open curly brace", etc.
@revk I would never have a voice say "open curly brace", but when tackling complex coding problems I do have a monologue of sorts - its basically "verbalising" my reasoning / logic in a similar way to how you might start writing things down when the problem you're solving gets too big to fit in your head. But I also have other visualisation mechanisms, and most code is produced spontaneously rather than needing a monologue or visualisation. Its only the really tricky stuff.
@revk That's really interesting. I'd definitely think Let ex equal three... I wouldn't think the curly braces like that but otherwise..
Programming for me definitely involves internal monologue. It's "words" same as writing or reading anything else to me, I think. Lines of code do kinda read like sentences.
I always think it's really neat how people's minds all work so differently even when doing the same tasks. My mum "sees" spoken words as written ones somehow. She's good at word games!
@revk I woud generaly think the code skipping unnecesary punctuation such as curly brackets (they are rarely used in python anyway, unless you want to try from future import curly braces :rofl:) so print("hello,world") becomes print hello, world and your basic example I simply think "a=3"
@revk I always assumed the "internal monologue" was a gimmick for TV and movies so the audience could get in on the thought process. I only recently realized that people actually do that for real.
@revk No, even when typing or reading I don't "hear" anything. I understand that I'm processing the word, but there's no voice involved, mine or otherwise. About the only time a voice becomes involved is when I'm remembering a conversation or song.
@mike@revk I am always fascinated by people who don't think in words. Like, even when I type this not only do my brains says it, I also kinda move my mouth as if I was pronunciating them xD
@joel Heh, I've been the reverse. Seriously, how is talking to yourself in your head OK but talking to yourself out loud a symptom of insanity? If you're talking to yourself, do you answer yourself? Don't you already know how you're going to answer? It's your head after all. Such a strange idea.
@mike@revk
Hmm. Interesting, I'm the same.
I never "hear" what I'm reading or writing.
It's that same as my aphantastia, I have no internal image of my wife, I couldn't describe her to someone, but I know instantly when I see her that is her.
This could go on and on with mental internals, and I guess this is the whole spectrum of neurodivergancy.
@b3cft@mike Interesting, I do have mental images to some extent, maybe not the same as others because there is no way I could describe anyone really without a lot of difficulty, apart from some real basics like "short".
@mike For me that is "wow, how can that be", but then, as I say, there are people deaf from birth who could never have an internal monologue, so it is no reason to think that people are not like that - just processing words in a different way. Maybe most people learn language verbally first and then layer reading and writing on top of that, but not all people...
@revk I've wondered about that. I learned to read very early. Maybe I learned words visually before I learned them verbally? It would explain why I'm so horrible at spelling. Seriously, spell check just throws up its hands in frustration sometimes.
I also like that people without an internal monologue have always though the terms about talking to yourself or trying to come to some agreement in your mind, are some sort of "figure of speech" until they realise people do have a discussion with themself (in one or more voices) some times.
I tent to have one voice and rarely internally "discuss" with myself. Some people do.
@revk sorry that didn't come across as playfully as I like. It is an interesting poll.
I to get some things coming to me w/o dialogue or visualisations. Those things are really hard to explain to other people if they don't get argued out in my head first.
@otfrom I had this with code, with a supervisor, that could not understand that I could just see the resulting code for some task without the steps to get there.
Like he wanted the discussion and logic to come up with the idea. It was not in his head that an idea could simply appear and obviously be the right answer.
I'd suggest that the majority of thought is non-vocal, and the "voice," thinking part is like consciousness... A sort of after the fact story, or rationalization, of the body and brain's actions.
It "feels" like the discussion comes up with the ideas, but it's more like an after-the-fact rationalization, to put it into words.
Then the auto-biographer / narrator in our heads "writes it down" for memory and story telling.
@pseudonym@otfrom When reading Terry Practhett for a while I can find I am mentally narrating my life in an internal monologue, for an hour or so. Really weird.
@rachel Indeed, I only heard a few years ago, people don't talk about it - but there are people, perhaps many (we will see) who have no internal monologue. I mean it makes sense, if deaf from birth - how could you? But apparently some have an internal dialogue, or different voices for different ways of thinking. It is fascinating.
Some of my deaf friends who have early access to BSL have sign language internal monologue. I hear well with HAs but no monologue
But equally I've met "language deprived" deaf people who didn't get speech-access and learned BSL later (but too neurologically late for typical development) who have had to manually sign things on their own hands to process certain information which is fascinating to see.
How often do we simply just assume all inner-brain experiences are the same.
@NatalyaD@revk@rachel many years ago I had read that deaf people who had not been diagnosed early and therefore had no access to language during early development had measurably lower intelligence because they hadn't been able to develop an internal monologue. But the more I hear about people who have no monologue, the more I question whether this could actually be true (also unsure how objectively IQ tests really measure intelligence!)
This is going to be an interesting poll, and possibly surprising. Thank you all.
I made it a long poll to try and get lots of replies - it is not "a matter of opinion" or "random", so hopefully not at all controversial. It should be really interesting to see the numbers. I am sure there will be some edge cases (so comment instead).
But hopefully a lot of boosts.
I wonder if there has been much proper scientific study on this. If so, this will be a random fediverse snapshot.
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