ai6yr, (edited )

Mystery plant of the day. (update: this is most certainly horseweed!)

ai6yr,

Based on other, more mature plants in my yard, this appears to be Horseweed (Conyza canadensis) -- flowers match https://www.clemson.edu/cafls/research/weeds/weed-id-bio/broadleaf-weeds-parent/broadleaf-pages/horseweed.html

dougfir,
@dougfir@mastodon.social avatar

@ai6yr
What's wrong with the references in the Wikipedia article?

ai6yr,

@dougfir That works, if the links are still live!

ai6yr,

Apparently an invader from Canada! Can't trust those Canadians! 🤪

mybarkingdogs,
@mybarkingdogs@freeradical.zone avatar

@ai6yr Unfortunately some kind of nettle started spreading here, as well as bur clover and foxtails/lash grass. Hopefully my new gloves are thick enough to pull it with less ouch involved

ai6yr, (edited )

@mybarkingdogs I need better gloves to deal with the nettle/wild asparagus. Wild asparagus is edible, but getting to the stems is a chore! (the nettle is not as much of an issue...)

Catawu,
@Catawu@mastodon.social avatar

@ai6yr @mybarkingdogs It is a great tea! And it is delicious cooked. Mostly we have used it medicinally. Stinging Nettle Tea, hot or cold, is unlike anything else. It is delicious

ai6yr,

@Catawu @mybarkingdogs Stinging nettle is my favorite nowadays!

mybarkingdogs,
@mybarkingdogs@freeradical.zone avatar

@ai6yr @Catawu Our nettles are Dwarf Nettle and Nettle-Leaved Goosefoot according to Seek/INaturalist

mybarkingdogs,
@mybarkingdogs@freeradical.zone avatar

@ai6yr @Catawu and according to me, "OUCH I WILL NEVER PULL THAT BAREHANDED AGAIN"

Catawu,
@Catawu@mastodon.social avatar

@mybarkingdogs @ai6yr Most people can’t barehand it.

ai6yr,

@Catawu @mybarkingdogs That was my thought initially (OUCH!), but I am now pulling it up barehanded myself. The irritation is present, but brief. I work in the garden enough if I only touch it with my hands (NOT my arms!!!) I am fine. Calloused hands from working are nettle immune. Also, don't get it on your legs, LOL.

ai6yr,

Apparently edible; used to treat (depending on what random, un-trusted Internet website you run across), menstrual cramps, ward off fleas (known as fleabane), for soups and stews, in salad. However, given the spammy content of the internet and AI regurgitated crap, haven't yet found a definitive, trusted source on this one.

ai6yr,

Says it is used for sweat lodges. Hmm. Must ask the sweat lodge expert on my server, @exador23 - LOL.

Catawu,
@Catawu@mastodon.social avatar

@ai6yr @exador23 The plant you showed a picture of doesn’t look like stinging nettle to me. There are a lot of nettles out there.

ai6yr,

@Catawu @exador23 The plant there is horseweed... nettle came up later in the conversation!

exador23,
@exador23@m.ai6yr.org avatar

@ai6yr not in plains style lodges. perhaps some tribes did use it.

but I wonder if that came from a colonizer misidentification. the top photo looks an awful lot like some varieties of mugwort, which IS used in native ceremony (though not necessarily plains style sweat lodge)

ai6yr,

@exador23 Yeah, I have my doubts sometimes on the mention of "this plant was used by natives" with zero references and backup information... I notice there are many bits of information which somebody shoved in a book from 1835 and propagate themselves as "lore" when it's not necessarily true at all.

exador23,
@exador23@m.ai6yr.org avatar

@ai6yr If it has medicinal or nutritional benefits there's a good chance it was known and used.

Is it aromatic? all of the plants used in lodge are.

cedar. sweet grass. sage (white or south dakota). red willow bark (that's what is smoked in the pipes). sometimes copal (a tree sap - more common with southern tribes). bear root/osha.

tobacco is used in ceremony, but not inside the lodge.

ai6yr,

@exador23 Yes, very aromatic. Smells slightly like a turpentine-ish odor. I can see why they use it as a flea repellent, LOL.

exador23,
@exador23@m.ai6yr.org avatar

@ai6yr if it's unpleasant, I seriously doubt it was used in lodge. almost all the stuff brought in is placed on the hot stones and people breathe in the smoke.

that sound's like it would chase everyone out. lol.

ai6yr,

@exador23 Well, the sources I'm reading saying people cook them like spinach and eat them... it does say "used for steam"

ai6yr,

@exador23 This stuff is EVERYWHERE in the Topa Topa's and Santa Monica's... Tall stuff

Close up of a tall plant with distinctive leaves up the middle

exador23,
@exador23@m.ai6yr.org avatar

@ai6yr I'd have to smell it and compare to mugwort. that looks awfully similar to what we'll harvest before sundance. but my identification is by the smell, which is unmistakeable.

it isn't burned for smudge. the dancers make head, ankle, and wrist bands out of it, wrapped in red clothe. they're not supposed to be touched, so the helpers grab the wrist bands to lead them around. the head bands or 'crowns' help shade their faces. It's also laid out in various places.

ai6yr,

@exador23 Interesting! Definitely not mugwort. But maybe by smell...

exador23,
@exador23@m.ai6yr.org avatar

@ai6yr there's also a lot of ... looseness when it comes to names of plants in intertribal ceremonies. lol.

I got in trouble once when the Chief up north called for sage. and I brought white sage. he doesn't like that - only south dakota sage.

they'll often also ask for sage when they mean mugwort. depends on the context.

And bear root is called osha or celery root also. etc.

exador23,
@exador23@m.ai6yr.org avatar

@ai6yr cedar smells wonderful. sweet grass is divine. bear root is kinda spicy/earthy and is really good for your respiratory issues.

red willow bark is hard to describe. very light. maybe a hint of sweetness. really good stuff (it's the really thin, soft inner layer of bark. takes a lot of effort to harvest just a little. the outer bark is harsh)

copal is kind of like frankincense. easy to overdo it. creates a lot of smoke.

Sage isn't really burned in the lodge, except before the people go in to smudge it off. But it's offered to people as they come in the door. or any time we circle up formally.

kinsale42,
@kinsale42@mstdn.games avatar

@ai6yr I could check my Culpeper's Herbal (but you'd have to wait till my cat tires of lying on me)

It's not what you'd call up-to-date but at least it's not ai-generated.

kinsale42,
@kinsale42@mstdn.games avatar
ai6yr,

@kinsale42 THANK YOU!!!!

ai6yr,

Google Books reference on horseweed (Conyza canadensis). Definitely edible. Apparently it's the first weed to have evolved to be immune to Roundup!

Edible parts: Leaves Flavor: Onion Notes: A single stem spiky plant becoming tall as it blooms. Seeds germiante in all but the coldest soils, and one plant can produce a quarter-million seeds.

meganL,
@meganL@mas.to avatar

@ai6yr This isn't a good herbalism guide, but pretty good resource to bookmark if you want weed ID in California. https://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/weeds_intro.html

ai6yr,

@meganL Thanks! Bookmarked... Most certainly horseweed based on the young and older plants here... https://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/WEEDS/horseweed.html

ai6yr,

@meganL Now to decide if I want to try that one, LOL...

Cristobalm,
@Cristobalm@m.ai6yr.org avatar
ai6yr,
va3wft,
@va3wft@mastodon.hams.social avatar

@ai6yr Suddenly, horses arrive in a Grateful Dead VW Bus.

salado_plant_traders,
@salado_plant_traders@mastodon.social avatar

@ai6yr maybe plantain

ai6yr,

@salado_plant_traders Ah, close, but does not seem to match the descriptions online. Thanks for the idea to check though!

markeister,
@markeister@mastodon.social avatar

@ai6yr Plant ID app thinks it is Horseweed

ai6yr,

@markeister Interesting, this may be the case...

"For all the bad press that horseweed gets today, it was well-respected and considered very useful just a couple hundred years ago. It has definite astringent properties, so is helpful in treating bleeding problems such as hemorrhoids and flesh wounds. The fresh leaves were crushed and applied to the problem areas to reduce blood flow. "

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