Hamas is evil. But who have the Palestinian children been killing?
Of the 35,000 official deaths (the real number is likely much, much higher), 25,000 have been positively identified as innocents - 15,000 of which were children.
More than 50% of all homes in Gaza have been destroyed.
Hospitals, schools, and refugee camps have been intentionally targeted.
International food and water are being withheld while aid workers, UN personnel, and jornalists are being targeted.
There’s no way to justify this as an appropriate response to Hamas.
Both sides have killed children. Hamas is not innocent. They took hostages. Some of those hostages were children. They abused, raped, and even killed their hostages. In response, Israel has struck Palestinians; Hamas and non-Hamas, killing men, women, and children. Both sides are killing people, instead of taking their families and leaving the area. No one should have Gaza. Neither side deserves it. I refuse to support either side. I would only support a movement by the UN to relocate families as asylum seekers, in an effort to remove the children from the war. No one else deserves sympathy in this but the children. That’s my opinion. You don’t need to agree with it, but I can’t support someone who says they support one side, or the other, after all of the killings. It would be like cheering on a prison yard fight between two convicted murderers and trying to convince some bystander that either one is the lesser evil. I’m not buying a ticket to this event. I don’t want to watch. Neither side is a hero.
I believe the part that your point is missing is that Hamas and Palestine are two distinct groups. I’m sure there’s some overlap, but Palestinians are not Hamas simply by virtue of being born Palestinian.
They are generally innocent victims in a war being waged against them by Israel. Hamas is fighting Israel, so I don’t doubt that many Palestinians see them as the only way to fight back, but this is the result of decades of oppression against Palestinians
I don’t support Hamas’ methods either, but I still support the people of Palestine over the senseless attacks Israel is engaging in
This argument might be valid, except both sides are not equal. One side has more power than the other. Palestine is under occupation.
Then you would have been against the ANC in South Africa. The ANC was oppressed and used violence against their oppressors. Then you would have been against Civil Rights in America. The Civil Rights movement used violence against their oppressors in America.
Palestinians have an internationally recognized “right to resist” colonial occupation.
You must be a troll. Are you really not able to say “quit killing innocents?” That goes for both sides BTW. “Quit killing children, quit killing innocent people.” Is that really hard? Protesting the people who are actively killing children and innocents using American made bombs seems pretty straightforward. Don’t kill innocent people. Don’t commit genocide.
Did you not read my comment? My comment was specifically against both sides because they are killing people, such as innocent children. I don’t need to go cause riot in an American city over it. America isn’t Israel or Palestine. Our civilians and our law enforcement shouldn’t be inconvenienced by huge demonstrations that should really be happening in Gaza. The place to protest against something would be in the place where the offensive action is occurring. Biden already announced he is pulling aide from Israel. Biden already sent food to the Palestinians. What more do you want from Americans by protesting? Do you want us all to fight a war against two countries that are not governed by America? You want America to jump right in to battle; to sacrifice lives of American service people? You want us to police an issue that doesn’t directly involve America. Then everyone will be protesting it as if it’s the Vietnam War. I don’t think we need to be encouraging Americans to pick a side.
I think other countries could offer plane tickets and sanctuary guarantees to families who want to escape, while making sure to send Israelis and Palestinians to different countries for that sanctuary. They could encourage a mass relocation of civilians. Gaza should just be evacuated entirely and no one should live there ever again. People will disagree with me. That’s fine. It’s better than saying, “let’s send them bombs and jets!”
Doesn’t really seem like the folks holding signs and protesting are being arrested. The people who have set up encampments and are trespassing are being arrested, but they’re clearly and obviously breaking the law. Peaceful protest is protected, vandalism, and attacking students or blocking them from accessing the buildings they’re paying tuition to use isn’t peaceful protest. There’s a hell of a lot of video showing that quite a number of these are not peaceful or protests. Signs calling for intifada are not peaceful.
These people don’t even know why they’re angry and they’re clearly being led around by people with an agenda they’re not aware of. We see this with the intifada guidebook being distributed, this was never a peaceful protest.
The claims of children being half of the dead being a good example of ignorance being amplified. Even the UN fell for it, they’ve admitted their mistakes - I won’t hold my breath for the protesters to do the same.
I truly believe that most of them didn’t even know that Israel and Palestine were in a conflict prior to Oct 7th, and more than most couldn’t point to Palestine on a map.
Oh, I’m 100% certain of it. I’ll allow for the fact that there’s some outliers around that are aware of the history between the two nations, but the majority talk like they are trying too hard to appear worldly and caring. Which is what you get when you have to manufacture your own outrage.
It comes off as disingenuous.
Also, their complete lack of knowing how nuance works in these situations indicates that most of them aren’t old enough to understand how these things work- and that political discourse is a never ending series of compromise.
Pouting and threatening to not vote has… checks notes- not ONCE in history, resorted in the aforementioned pouter getting their way.
And the irony is thy think they’re not part of the status quo.
If you’re trying to equate or conflate the plight of the founding fathers with the plight of a peoples who hold near absolute domination over the entire region with 22 ethnostates, then you need to go back to history class.
This isn’t a fight for freedom in any way, shape or form. It’s a fight to eliminate the only state that isn’t Muslim in the region.
I’m assuming you’ve gone far out of your way to avoid the video that was released on Saturday showing Hamas using un vehicles.
I’m pretty safe in batting that you’ve also managed to avoid the fact that Hamas was having their power provided by a un agency as well.
Those are both incontrovertible facts with clear video evidence. I’ll let you come to a conclusion on whether or not the UN is Hamas or not, but they are certainly making it very difficult to differentiate themselves.
Yes we have investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong. Ignore the video evidence that it’s coming out daily and weekly. Ignore the little infrastructure tied into our power grid. Ignore all of that. None of that actually matters here. Only what we say when we are investigating our own doing…
You’re not going to lock people out of campus. Take away the right to access the facilities they’ve paid for and not expect pushback. Super easy way to avoid. This is to not set up illegal encampments in the first place.
Yet again here we have people crying victim over the consequences of their actions. Completely typical among the Anti Jew crowd.
It’s not murder. It’s a war. What happened on October 7th? On the other hand, was murder. The retribution for starting the war is a war in return. The consequences of starting a war are typically identified by a body count. Don’t want none. Don’t start none.
That you failed to understand this, is your failure and demonstrates a serious bias and lack of understanding.
Yeah that’s great. Israel has clearly established that they are not targeting women and children. They’ve dropped leaflets. They’ve made phone calls. They’ve even put idf soldiers at risk having to escort people away from Hamas snipers who are targeting people trying to leave.
Your anger is directed at the wrong people. It needs to be directed at Hamas openly uses human Shields, operates out of civilian quarters and uses what should be protected. Facilities like hospitals and schools to launch attacks from. If you’re going to sit there and say that Israel should not respond to being attacked because they’re being attacked from a hospital then I have no problem calling you in a bigot because what you’re saying in reality is that the Jews need to accept being rocketed and killed. That’s just an absurd position to take, but we’re seeing a lot of absurd people and positions related to this conflict. Like the people trying to claim that anti-zionism is an anti-Semitism. Nothing more absurd than that.
Israel has clearly established that they are not targeting women and children.
Are you nuts? There are 8000 identified children dead. So either the IDF is targeting civilians or their targeting is war-criminal level bad.
what you’re saying in reality is that the Jews need to accept being rocketed and killed
No, they don’t have to accept it. They should elect governments that don’t support apartheid and commit genocide, thus perpetuating the cycle of violence.
You’re just intentionally ignoring that Hamas uses women and children as human Shields? You’re going to overlook the video that shows children running to the rooftops encircling a guy holding a gun?
West point Military academy has published papers showing the links that Israel is gone to prevent civilian death in the face of the civilians being used as human Shields. Their civilian to combatant ratio is better than anything that has been seen in this style of war ever. That you’re ignorantly claiming that it’s out of line demonstrates that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
That you’re saying that all Israel needs to do is elect a peace-loving government also demonstrates your ignorance. Considering over the past 80 years, Israel has spent about 70 of them making peace deals that have been rejected by the Palestinians. Even before Israel was granted statehood, they were making offers to create a peaceful Nation. Go read their founding Charter. It clearly states that they want to work and to integrate with peace wanting Arabs. After a couple of generations of watching their homes, businesses and buses blown up, they took the gloves off and fought back. It’s about time the Palestinians elected someone that wasn’t a terrorist organization… Because that’s the only way this ends, whether peaceful or by extreme violence Hamas is gone. They won’t choose the peaceful option cuz they care more about raking billions of dollars in and staying in power than they do about Palestinian people…
Every life lost is a tragedy. You’re asking the wrong question. The question you should be asking is why does Hamas use children as human Shields? Why does Hamas get a free pass on sending teenagers to their death holding firearms. If you’re as up to speed as you claim to be, then you’ve seen the videos coming out of their kindergarten classes where they’re being trained to kill Jews.
Every child lost is blood on hamas’s hands. They started this war. They continue to claim that they will attack again and again. They are the ones responsible for the death and destruction that we’re all witnessing. Some might claim there is no such thing as a just war. I don’t necessarily agree with that. I do think that the Israelis are just in defending themselves against the existential threat openly admitted by Hamas.
The cops literally did more damage than the protestors, you can go ahead and drop that propaganda line from your repetoire. We all saw it live, there’s no one around to believe those particular lies.
That’s just bullshit dude. You’re telling me you haven’t seen the destruction in the libraries and on the campuses? Those were even published in the guardian.
That you’re attempting to gaslight this one and say that the sky isn’t blue isn’t going to fly. There’s just far too much out there proving that many, many of these campus takeovers where anything but peaceful protests.
I know that video exists of anything conceivable so yeah I don’t suddenly believe that there’s some big movement of people claiming any support for Palestine is anti-Semitism. A tiny minority of people not really worth mentioning. Yes I said it “never” happened but that’s only a slight exaggeration
great job, nuanced argument, 5 stars. Never have I been more wrong in my life than when I said there aren’t many people equating these protests to anti-Semitism. I mean jeez it’s gotta be like… .00001% of the population. A plague upon society! We should be screaming from the rooftops about what a couple of people believe…because… That helps sell the idea that gEnOcIdE JoE is personally murdering children. Er I mean it’s true. Yeah that’s it. It’s true . So many people believe this that it’s just a horrible danger to the world.
right I totally did that, and you are totally not coping with your extreme bias that causes you to believe you are persecuted for having an extremely popular opinion
I only bring nuance to good faith arguments, so far you’ve demonstrated that you will just make anything up and wait for us to easily refute it. So now that we’ve devolved into sophistry and meta-argumentation, I’ll leave the convo here and hope your day is as pleasant as you are.
Frankly, . Yeah. “War is war” is the phrase i have heard most often. It makes me wonder about what exactly the second invasion of Iraq looked like on the ground.
I didn’t have to hear stories. I saw. Not because I was there.
My cousin took his digital camera with him. He has a BLAST showing off his photos when he got home. I’ve never been so sickened up to that point in my life.
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