gcvsa,
@gcvsa@mstdn.plus avatar

The two things that I personally feel have always been terrible about the design of are the class-based character development system and the Vancian magic system.

These systems irrationally limit the choices players can make in designing and developing their PCs, and TSR/WotC/Hasbro has missed so many opportunities to do away with these systems over the past 50 years.

But, they can be fixed, within the existing framework of . (more)

gcvsa,
@gcvsa@mstdn.plus avatar

A few years ago, I finally developed a good Spell Points system to replace the spell slot system of D&D, but for some reason, it never struck me until the middle of last night that the way to fix the class system of D&D is Feats.

By simply converting all class-based mechanics to Feats, D&D could finally be freed of these irrational limitations.

I would have to rework my Spell Points system to fit a Feats-based D&D, but that's simply a matter of juggling a few numbers.

gcvsa,
@gcvsa@mstdn.plus avatar

With my SP system, there's no longer any "spell preparation" or "spell slots". The caster has a certain number of SP based on their caster level, and can cast any spell they know any number of times, provided their have SP remaining, and can, if they wish, exchange HP for SP, once they run out of SP, even unto death.

Once a spell is learned, it is learned permanently, and is not "forgotten" after casting.

gcvsa,
@gcvsa@mstdn.plus avatar

Spells cost the square of their spell level plus the spell level (min of 1) to cast.

So, a 0th Level cantrip costs 1 SP, a 1st Level spell costs 2 SP, a 2nd Level spell costs 6 SP, and a 9th Level spell costs 90 SP to cast, thus naturally limiting the number of high level spells any PC is going to cast, and heavily biasing the caster toward casting low-level spells.

The DM can also optionally limit the number of spells a caster can cast between rests, based on a factor of their ability scores.

gcvsa,
@gcvsa@mstdn.plus avatar

Furthermore, SP and HP recovery happens on a time-based scale as a function of how much has been depleted, so no full SP or HP recovery after a short rest or a long rest.

A high-level PC who depletes all their SP or HP may take weeks to fully restore their SP or HP, absent magical or divine intervention.

ericmpaq,
@ericmpaq@dice.camp avatar

@gcvsa This reminds me of the old spell point and character point systems which TSR published for AD&D 2nd ed.

zdl,
@zdl@mastodon.online avatar

@ericmpaq @gcvsa I tried to patch AD&D with house rule after house rule to get away from the design decisions that made the game unenjoyable for me. In the end I wound up with a thick binder full of rules that consisted, in essence, of "jack up the paint job, insert a new car, lower the paint job".

It's why I stopped playing D&D (any flavour) entirely in the end. Other games didn't need as much tinkering for me.

ericmpaq,
@ericmpaq@dice.camp avatar

@zdl AD&D 2nd ed was very modular for good & ill. It had lots of mini games which didn’t interact with each other. That was making it easy for house rules but not easy to teach.

zdl,
@zdl@mastodon.online avatar

@ericmpaq That was my problem with D&D in general: lots of little things that broke when interacting with other things creating a need for works like this to explain combat: https://idiscepolidellamanticora.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/addict.pdf

Twenty pages. Of quick reference. C&S2 with SEVEN DIFFERENT COMBAT SYSTEMS was less convoluted!

I quit playing D&D before AD&D2 came out, but I did read AD&D2, D&D3, and D&D4 and found nothing to bring me back. (I never bothered with D&D5.)

I'm just happier outside the D&D world in the end.

ericmpaq,
@ericmpaq@dice.camp avatar

@zdl That document is 10 pages of rules, each page has around 1/2 the page with footnotes. Then there’s a 7 page example, 2 page summary chart, 1 page of sources. From a quick glance, it seems to use several optional rules.

Playing games you enjoy is great. It doesn’t have to be D&D. I love trying different games.

zdl,
@zdl@mastodon.online avatar

@ericmpaq And it completely overlooks grappling and unarmed combat. 🤣

The main problem I had with AD&D1 as it turns out was expressed succinctly by someone a decade later: "AD&D was written, not designed."

ericmpaq,
@ericmpaq@dice.camp avatar

@zdl grappling and unarmed combat would be a normal melee attack.

zdl,
@zdl@mastodon.online avatar

@ericmpaq That's absolutely not how I remember the grappling rules in AD&D1 working...

ericmpaq,
@ericmpaq@dice.camp avatar

@zdl That's how I read that document you shared.

zdl,
@zdl@mastodon.online avatar

@ericmpaq That's a summary, recall. The grappling rules of AD&D1 were serious pain. I can't think of a single group that tried to use them more than once before giving up.

ericmpaq,
@ericmpaq@dice.camp avatar

@zdl The document you provided was a combat compilation with a 2 page summary at the end.

zdl,
@zdl@mastodon.online avatar

@ericmpaq And NOT THE ACTUAL RULES FROM THE ACTUAL BOOK.

I mean just copyright would tell you that.

The grappling rules were a mess. They were practically a game in their own right and they interacted very badly with the rest of the rules.

ericmpaq,
@ericmpaq@dice.camp avatar

@zdl Yeah, from the list of sources, it's a compilation from several books.

I guess this David M. Prata chose to ignore those specific grapple rules you speak of.

zdl,
@zdl@mastodon.online avatar

@ericmpaq It's a step-by-step list with footnotes showing where the information comes from, these forming, in bulk, the PH and DMG, and some Dragon columns that are more-or-less considered canon (including some of Gygax's ranting about how "clear" his rules are).

zdl,
@zdl@mastodon.online avatar
ericmpaq,
@ericmpaq@dice.camp avatar

@zdl I don't have time to read a 64 page thread. Sorry.

zdl,
@zdl@mastodon.online avatar

@ericmpaq Just the first message will give you the flavour.

Then you'll see how contentious that is and how many other interpretations there are...

ericmpaq,
@ericmpaq@dice.camp avatar

@zdl The horror movie reference post is the 1st one on the page you shared.

zdl,
@zdl@mastodon.online avatar

@ericmpaq Weird. When I click the link it goes to a specific message that details the grappling/pummeling rules.

If you're getting dropped to the first page of the thread, yeah. This is like page 50. 😮

ericmpaq,
@ericmpaq@dice.camp avatar

@zdl I get dropped to post #1.226.

zdl,
@zdl@mastodon.online avatar

@ericmpaq It's for me. That's just weird.

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